Travelled to interview, not sure what to think of prospective boss

[Anonymous]

Doesn’t seem to me like he did anything wrong. And even if he is subtly pushing boundaries, you pushed back and he respected them, right? If it’s really your dream job, I would take it and keep doing the same. He wants to discuss project X over drinks on Thursday? Sorry, not available then, but can meet in the office at 3. Team building lunch? Fine. He wants to have lunch with just you? Sorry, no can do, let’s meet at 2.

I have gone to job interviews and they basically went how you described. Pick up from the train station and then the whole time with one person who kind of shepherded me around to various other people, but all meals included the hiring manager/my boss. Are you extremely young and this is your first job? You seem very naive and also very rigid. Texts are for immediate response, you really tried to schedule a time to text back another day? You couldn’t cancel your airport ride when he offered to pick you up? Seems like the problem is you.

[Anonymous]

Is this academia? It's not abnormal for someone to pick you up at the airport and arrange for you to have people to have lunch and dinner with over the course of two days. The Saturday thing is weird.

But they should have told you about the Thursday activities. Typically you would get a calendar laying everything out in advance so that you would know to get on the plane looking somewhat professional or bring something to change into once you land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you an academic? Because you’ve just described a pretty common scenario is academic hiring. It is gross and inappropriate and unfortunately way too typical.

Yes, it would be academic (coming from govt contracting). I thought this (state) university, being as liberal as it is, would not have tolerance for this.

Um, you are weird, OP. This is all normal for an academic interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread/situation seems really similar to the “hung up on skip line supervisor” post.

Can someone post a link. I’m trying the search function, but it’s not coming up.

I believe it was deleted!

[Anonymous]

I’m not going to worry about AI taking the place of humans in creating entertaining threads; call me crazy but I can’t imagine a bot having the agility of the OP or her tormentors.

I do think that the OP — if real — should take this job, if, as she says, she won’t have to deal with this boss much in her day-to-day work. Academia is nice in the sense that, unlike corporations, there are lots of people operating on very long leashes (try herding cats), perhaps because teachers/professors have always despised being micromanaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you an academic? Because you’ve just described a pretty common scenario is academic hiring. It is gross and inappropriate and unfortunately way too typical.

Was thinking this tooo.
My DH is an academic and this is how every job interview goes, whether he was the candidate or part of the hiring committee. Someone from the department (usually hiring committee chair or point person) picks you up at airport and has a lunch, then shows you around the department/college, then passes you off to individual meetings with various colleagues, then dinner. Then next day is a job talk and maybe you have a few more one-on-ones followed by another lunch or dinner.

The Saturday thing is weird but not that uncommon if they are trying to schedule something social to let you get the feel of the area or make you feel welcomed and try to “visualize” yourself there—particularly if the job requires a big relocation effort.

One thing you may need to consider, OP, is that, if the boss guy is older, he’s probably been conditioned that he needs to treat all candidates the same. This whole push to get men to consider what it must make a woman feel like to be placed in XYZ circumstance is a pretty recent pendulum swing. In the 80s, 90s and even early 2000s women were screaming to just treat us like the men in the workplace —probably just to prove we “belonged” there! Men in the 1970s and 1980s were largely resistant to having to change their practices to accommodate women in their work culture, so ironically, to accommodate this, we argued that we didn’t want or require any special treatment. In fact we were insistent on it. And it kind of turns out that we do need men to adjust the workplace a little bit. And that’s okay.
But the boss guy may have missed the shift and doesn’t realize that it’s now required that he consider whether or not a woman candidate or subordinate feels comfortable riding in his car alone with him or being out to lunch or being dropped off after dark at a hotel by him.

I think you probably overreacted trying to change the schedule they had proposed but also they should have given you a firm schedule at least 48 hours prior.

[Anonymous]

Lol

[Anonymous]

Women like this make it hard for everyone. I mean I went on am interview in DC when in NY and I was given Amtrak to take they paid, directions to hotel via redline, once in hotel was met for breakfast walked to office and lunch CEO with multiple interviews, next day the had car service take me to the other locations for two interviews, then board member then cad service back to Amtrak,

Look on a multi day interview they own you. No my tummy hurts, I don’t like the food, I need some me time.

Jesus Christ Arron Rodgers had to interview like this for jets job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big vibe of "I suffered through it and you should too" on here.

I think the issue is that OP is talking mostly about her feelings and not the behavior that was problematic. So without more specifics, we’re inclined to shrug it off. I don’t have an issue with all of the meals and ride sharing. I do have an issue if he was “angry” with OP for drawing some boundaries. Either way, I’d ask where the offer is.

PP you're responding to. Yes, what you say is fair. Some of these things like picking her up at the airport might, on their own, be benign. I do think that with the full context, including his reaction to her saying she's arranged her own transportation, she has some reason the feel off. And of course, it is her subjective reaction. I respect it because she was there. I wasn’t. People are saying it's not not valid because she was annoyed at the first text and about breakfast (ie, before the sex remarks). But I'm thinking she's viewing everything now in the context of the full interview and what texts she received after.

Basically I'm really grossed out by so many posters picking on every little thing OP said and why it's no big deal. Implying she's acting like an old lady. Implying she's too old to be attractive to this man. Even though we know so many men are like this and know how to skirt the line so they haven't done anything actionable (and this is just the interview! This is his best behavior!). In my experience women tend to underreact and try to justify male behavior, and here is a group of women telling another woman she is overreacting and dramatic. It's sad to me.

OP here. Yes, who gets angry because someone took the initiative to arrange for their own transportation (since none was offered)? I personally would be happy if I didn't have to interrupt my day to go to the airport. And it wasn't a one and done text. He kept pressing and trying to make it happen, even though I was standing firm. A simple "I'm more than happy to pick you up...are you sure? Ok then, let me know if you change your mind" would suffice. Not firing off crazy texts.

But OP—
This was you trying to manage UP.
In this scenario, you were the interviewee, and it was not up to you to set the agenda and the schedule and terms of the interview events.
I get the sense that any frustration you read from him was likely due to his feeling that you were trying to unnecessarily and inappropriately exert your dominance and try to control the process when you should have played the role of gracious guest.
You asked “who gets angry because someone took initiative…” but the answer is LOTS of people might be taken aback that you assumed you’d just be doing your own thing and arranging your own schedule—and even further frustrated when you refuse to adjust even when it was been communicated to you that other arrangements had been made and your presence was expected for a 1:1 lunch meeting as part of the interview schedule.
It’s just weird to react as though HE was the odd one here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big vibe of "I suffered through it and you should too" on here.

I think the issue is that OP is talking mostly about her feelings and not the behavior that was problematic. So without more specifics, we’re inclined to shrug it off. I don’t have an issue with all of the meals and ride sharing. I do have an issue if he was “angry” with OP for drawing some boundaries. Either way, I’d ask where the offer is.

PP you're responding to. Yes, what you say is fair. Some of these things like picking her up at the airport might, on their own, be benign. I do think that with the full context, including his reaction to her saying she's arranged her own transportation, she has some reason the feel off. And of course, it is her subjective reaction. I respect it because she was there. I wasn’t. People are saying it's not not valid because she was annoyed at the first text and about breakfast (ie, before the sex remarks). But I'm thinking she's viewing everything now in the context of the full interview and what texts she received after.

Basically I'm really grossed out by so many posters picking on every little thing OP said and why it's no big deal. Implying she's acting like an old lady. Implying she's too old to be attractive to this man. Even though we know so many men are like this and know how to skirt the line so they haven't done anything actionable (and this is just the interview! This is his best behavior!). In my experience women tend to underreact and try to justify male behavior, and here is a group of women telling another woman she is overreacting and dramatic. It's sad to me.

OP here. Yes, who gets angry because someone took the initiative to arrange for their own transportation (since none was offered)? I personally would be happy if I didn't have to interrupt my day to go to the airport. And it wasn't a one and done text. He kept pressing and trying to make it happen, even though I was standing firm. A simple "I'm more than happy to pick you up...are you sure? Ok then, let me know if you change your mind" would suffice. Not firing off crazy texts.

But OP—
This was you trying to manage UP.
In this scenario, you were the interviewee, and it was not up to you to set the agenda and the schedule and terms of the interview events.
I get the sense that any frustration you read from him was likely due to his feeling that you were trying to unnecessarily and inappropriately exert your dominance and try to control the process when you should have played the role of gracious guest.
You asked “who gets angry because someone took initiative…” but the answer is LOTS of people might be taken aback that you assumed you’d just be doing your own thing and arranging your own schedule—and even further frustrated when you refuse to adjust even when it was been communicated to you that other arrangements had been made and your presence was expected for a 1:1 lunch meeting as part of the interview schedule.
It’s just weird to react as though HE was the odd one here.

Exactly.
OP acts like this was a casual “hey I’ll pick you up at the airport” offer that a friend might make and she was just politely turning down the offer.
But I think that’s where the communication is badly misunderstood. OP this wasn’t a kind offer. It was a clear communication of expectation that your interview would begin with a pick up from the airport, followed by a lunch meeting followed by etc. etc. and you misunderstood this to be simply a polite gesture that you respectfully declined. He saw it as you weirdly trying to cut our half the interview (this his attempt to text you again with insistence and his further attempts to explain to you that this would throw off the rest of the days’ schedule)
You somehow saw it as inappropriate persistence/pursuit of alone time with you and he saw it as you being difficult and not comprehending that he is charged with collecting you from the airport and having his welcome and interview time with you before getting you to the meeting with the committee. You were throwing bricks at the plan and viewing the plan as optional rather than part of the process.

[Anonymous]

This is another metoo moment we need to get these boomers fired

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re reading way too much into this but obviously this isn’t the job for you.

A male brining up sex while alone in a car with a female subordinate, on the way to a hotel is reading way too much into it???

To be fair, nothing in the way you reportedly interacted with him would suggest that you even understand the concept of being “a subordinate” or you wouldn’t have pushed back so hard about the transportation arrangements and lunch schedule that had been made. So maybe he figured you were comfortable enough to discuss any topic? Also, the fact that he shared some observation about undergrads having sex in the building (you didn’t say if he was approving of this or appalled by this or just sharing a funny/shocking anecdote) is not exactly “bringing up sex” 🙄 It’s not like he was asking about YOU or your sex life…or even his! Geeze! You are an adult who is considering working there. Maybe he thought that was relevant to caution you that this is common? Maybe he thought it was a silly “these crazy kids” story. Maybe he’s awkward socially and was trying to fill the silence with the latest report of wacky departmental events!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big vibe of "I suffered through it and you should too" on here.

I think the issue is that OP is talking mostly about her feelings and not the behavior that was problematic. So without more specifics, we’re inclined to shrug it off. I don’t have an issue with all of the meals and ride sharing. I do have an issue if he was “angry” with OP for drawing some boundaries. Either way, I’d ask where the offer is.

PP you're responding to. Yes, what you say is fair. Some of these things like picking her up at the airport might, on their own, be benign. I do think that with the full context, including his reaction to her saying she's arranged her own transportation, she has some reason the feel off. And of course, it is her subjective reaction. I respect it because she was there. I wasn’t. People are saying it's not not valid because she was annoyed at the first text and about breakfast (ie, before the sex remarks). But I'm thinking she's viewing everything now in the context of the full interview and what texts she received after.

Basically I'm really grossed out by so many posters picking on every little thing OP said and why it's no big deal. Implying she's acting like an old lady. Implying she's too old to be attractive to this man. Even though we know so many men are like this and know how to skirt the line so they haven't done anything actionable (and this is just the interview! This is his best behavior!). In my experience women tend to underreact and try to justify male behavior, and here is a group of women telling another woman she is overreacting and dramatic. It's sad to me.

OP here. Yes, who gets angry because someone took the initiative to arrange for their own transportation (since none was offered)? I personally would be happy if I didn't have to interrupt my day to go to the airport. And it wasn't a one and done text. He kept pressing and trying to make it happen, even though I was standing firm. A simple "I'm more than happy to pick you up...are you sure? Ok then, let me know if you change your mind" would suffice. Not firing off crazy texts.

But OP—
This was you trying to manage UP.
In this scenario, you were the interviewee, and it was not up to you to set the agenda and the schedule and terms of the interview events.
I get the sense that any frustration you read from him was likely due to his feeling that you were trying to unnecessarily and inappropriately exert your dominance and try to control the process when you should have played the role of gracious guest.
You asked “who gets angry because someone took initiative…” but the answer is LOTS of people might be taken aback that you assumed you’d just be doing your own thing and arranging your own schedule—and even further frustrated when you refuse to adjust even when it was been communicated to you that other arrangements had been made and your presence was expected for a 1:1 lunch meeting as part of the interview schedule.
It’s just weird to react as though HE was the odd one here.

Exactly.
OP acts like this was a casual “hey I’ll pick you up at the airport” offer that a friend might make and she was just politely turning down the offer.
But I think that’s where the communication is badly misunderstood. OP this wasn’t a kind offer. It was a clear communication of expectation that your interview would begin with a pick up from the airport, followed by a lunch meeting followed by etc. etc. and you misunderstood this to be simply a polite gesture that you respectfully declined. He saw it as you weirdly trying to cut our half the interview (this his attempt to text you again with insistence and his further attempts to explain to you that this would throw off the rest of the days’ schedule)
You somehow saw it as inappropriate persistence/pursuit of alone time with you and he saw it as you being difficult and not comprehending that he is charged with collecting you from the airport and having his welcome and interview time with you before getting you to the meeting with the committee. You were throwing bricks at the plan and viewing the plan as optional rather than part of the process.

This. OP is difficult or has borderling personality disorder. The first hint was being offended at the text in the middle of the night while sleeping. TURN YOUR PHONE OFF while sleeping! good lord. I'm a lawyer and text 24/7. It's not like I'm expecting a response. I have to get things done. Then everything else was similarly picky picky picky. OP doesn't understand the academic interview climate and she lost the offer as a result because why WOULD they want to offer it to someone who has to twist every little event into something to take to HR? He is thinking he dodged a bullet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is a state university so they have a Title IX Coordinator. Call that person and file a complaint.[/quote]


And complain about what? precisely? Great way to get started in academic. "She couldn't even get through an interview without turning it into an HR complaint. AVOID!"

[Anonymous]

OP, ignore all the haters. You know how this guy handled it was all wrong.

The posters who are saying this schedule is typical of academia is also correct. I just had a conversation with a woman professor friend of mine who is interviewing at different y over suites who is really concerned about older men picking her up at the airport and then going to dinner and drunkenly driving them back to the hotel.

I asked her why she didn’t object and she said they are all very old, don’t want to chance their ways, and also the younger ones don’t want to raise their voices because they love the free drinks at these thing, and they don’t want HR to ban drinking.

Consider yourself very lucky and run far far away. I’ve had experiences with similar overwhelming men types and eventually they always try to cross the line. I also sacrificed some dream jobs but find something else. You’re clearly smart. Good luck.