Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental illness does not discriminate.

No it doesn’t. So we must also recognize that many of these mass shooters are indeed mentally ill to some extent. We mustn’t discriminate. They ended up dead or imprisoned for life. Remember that.

I don’t think “most” mass shooters are mentally ill. Yes there are some - the Sandy Hook shooter and the Virginia Tech shooter both come to mind. Definite serious mental illness there and clearly a lot of suffering. But others were impulsive or motivated by revenge or just had violent personalities. Not much different than your run of the mill violent criminals and gang members.

Serious PPD often comes with intrusive thoughts - she may have been, literally, “hearing voices.” And as a PP has mentioned it’s so hard to get mental health care plus people suffering from mental illness can downplay their symptoms or act normal in a way that a person suffering from cancer or heart disease really can’t.

How do you define "serious mental illness"? There are varying degrees of "serious mental illness."
Is a "violent personality" itself a mental illness? Why do you think a "run of the mill violent criminal" is not mentally ill?

Exactly. Is Brian Walshe mentally ill? Or just a giant selfish d-bag raised by crappy parents, who then murdered his wife? Where is the line?

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure I buy the mentally ill excuse.

Isn’t anyone who commits a horrific crime mentally ill? I don’t see how what she did is not any worse than a school shooter.

She seems evil to me and I wonder if there are other disturbing details about her that will surface

[Anonymous]

I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why have 3 kids? I have not seen any mom (unless they are wealthy like Hilaria Baldwin or Kim K) who don't start losing it after two kids.

3 is super hard and no one else wants to look after your kid either. This is not a society where women have a village to raise their kids. You are seriously screwed if you have 3 kids. In our circle the only people who have had 3 kids were people whose second pregnancy resulted in twins. And the moment you hear "twins" for a second pregnancy, you start to feel bad for them because more than 2 kids is chaos.

In DC where everyone has purposely moved here, away from their families of origin, what you’re saying is correct.

Most people in the US live where they grew up and have family around.

How do you know this? I don’t think it’s true.

It’s an incredibly tough time to raise a family. There are so many factors to now consider that past generations never had to face. No one is really prepared to become a parent but like all jobs, certain qualities should be required. Not everyone is meant to be, nor should become, a parent, and we need to be able to recognize and accept this.

I also think young adults today are lacking in friendship making skills. My sister and her husband complain of loneliness/no friends, but they drive their kids to school even though they have a bus, they don’t go on walks and take their kids and dog strictly into their backyard, they don’t have any hobbies or ever leave their house unless they have to. Then they say people aren’t friendly. But they want NO advice on changing this and get really defensive.

Also, when I think of how maxed out we were with two young kids, I literally could not imagine having a third in quick succession. I truly cannot believe how many parents do this without a gap/break.

This is so true.

This needs to be discussed more.

Remote work is just going to breed more isolation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Well effing said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

[Anonymous]

Much of mental illness exists in someone's head and thoughts. Some people are much better at hiding the darkest of those thoughts / keeping them to themselves than others. I don't know how much she had ever disclosed about thoughts of harming herself of her kids. Being a midwife she might have felt too much shame / judgment in sharing those kinds of thoughts. We don't know. People who are very depressed and even psychotic can seem to be recovering well, seem to be in good moods, seem to be coping, seem to be responding to treatment etc. I worked in inpatient psychiatric units for years. A lot of people have a poor understanding of the wide range of presentations of these illnesses as they don't get to see a wide range in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

Deciding to end your own life in suicide is not really comparable to killing three kids. Who thinks that suicidal people are supposed to look like raving lunatics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

Deciding to end your own life in suicide is not really comparable to killing three kids. Who thinks that suicidal people are supposed to look like raving lunatics?

Who thinks that people with psychosis look like raving lunatics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Much of mental illness exists in someone's head and thoughts. Some people are much better at hiding the darkest of those thoughts / keeping them to themselves than others. I don't know how much she had ever disclosed about thoughts of harming herself of her kids. Being a midwife she might have felt too much shame / judgment in sharing those kinds of thoughts. We don't know. People who are very depressed and even psychotic can seem to be recovering well, seem to be in good moods, seem to be coping, seem to be responding to treatment etc. I worked in inpatient psychiatric units for years. A lot of people have a poor understanding of the wide range of presentations of these illnesses as they don't get to see a wide range in person.

I think this is true, but in terms of a legal defense, it will likely not bode well if no one noticed and documented signs of serious psychosis. It would have to come from her testimony, subject to cross examination, and criminal defendants often choose to exercise their right not to testify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Much of mental illness exists in someone's head and thoughts. Some people are much better at hiding the darkest of those thoughts / keeping them to themselves than others. I don't know how much she had ever disclosed about thoughts of harming herself of her kids. Being a midwife she might have felt too much shame / judgment in sharing those kinds of thoughts. We don't know. People who are very depressed and even psychotic can seem to be recovering well, seem to be in good moods, seem to be coping, seem to be responding to treatment etc. I worked in inpatient psychiatric units for years. A lot of people have a poor understanding of the wide range of presentations of these illnesses as they don't get to see a wide range in person.

I think this is true, but in terms of a legal defense, it will likely not bode well if no one noticed and documented signs of serious psychosis. It would have to come from her testimony, subject to cross examination, and criminal defendants often choose to exercise their right not to testify.

Or an outside expert, if not treating providers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

Deciding to end your own life in suicide is not really comparable to killing three kids. Who thinks that suicidal people are supposed to look like raving lunatics?

You are talking about the results of decisions. I am talking about the state of mind those decisions are being made in. You are assuming that this person was making conscious, intentional decisions with the understanding of the results those decisions would have.

What I am saying, as a person who has worked with people experiencing all different kinds of psychosis, including postpartum psychosis, is that they are not operating with the same reality-based instructions that you are. They are not in their right minds at all. Everything in your post assumes that this is a person who was intentionally doing the things she did, concealing her intentions from her husband. My point is that you have absolutely no idea what her experience of the psychosis was. She could have truly believed that she was saving her children. She could have truly believed that her husband was a threat. She could have truly believed she was being controlled by an external entity. That is what psychosis is. It's not a bad person waiting for a good person to go away so they can do bad stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

Suicide is VERY different from waiting for your husband to leave so you can strangle your three children to death in succession in 30 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

Suicide is VERY different from waiting for your husband to leave so you can strangle your three children to death in succession in 30 minutes.

What point are you trying to make?

[Anonymous]

In reality everyone who commits murder is mentally ill because, if they were not mentally ill, they wouldn’t do it. To me (and I think the criminal justice system) she doesn’t deserve any more sympathy than any other murderer. Just because she is a white female who looks like us and has pretty pictures on social media does not change the realities of what she did and how she did it.