Middle school magnets - criteria-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was 25 ON TOP OF the 100?

yes.

it's 5% vs. 45%. Time for TPMS housing price to fly. And this is exactly what the county executives want... do they all live in that area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is setting aside an additional 25 spots on top of existing spots for in bounds kids to partake in special programming ANY different than the way Walter Johnson lets only their own kids do APEX? Or the way only RMIB kids can take IB courses in 11th and 12th? Or the way only Blair kids can take magnet electives in 11th and 12th?

Hey WJ parents: let my kid into APEX!!!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT FAIRRRRRRRRRRRR!

what's the APEX thing at WJ? is this a by application program? Never heard of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was 25 ON TOP OF the 100?

yes.

it's 5% vs. 45%. Time for TPMS housing price to fly. And this is exactly what the county executives want... do they all live in that area?

It's always been like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is setting aside an additional 25 spots on top of existing spots for in bounds kids to partake in special programming ANY different than the way Walter Johnson lets only their own kids do APEX? Or the way only RMIB kids can take IB courses in 11th and 12th? Or the way only Blair kids can take magnet electives in 11th and 12th?

Hey WJ parents: let my kid into APEX!!!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT FAIRRRRRRRRRRRR!

what's the APEX thing at WJ? is this a by application program? Never heard of this.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/wjhs/programs/apex/program_info/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TPMS sets aside 25 seats for in-bounds kids. That's kids coming from PBES and ESS, which have about 225 and 60 kids in 5th (that's this year...I know my kid's cohort was sightly larger because most were conceived right before the recession). So say there are between 275 and 310 kids each year headed to TPMS in the general population. It's a good chance your kid will be selected if they are at the top of their class at PBES or ESS. Mine was. But plenty were not who deserved it. Anyone can move here if you want to: plenty of housing stock at all rental and owner levels.

But that's not fair. It's a county level program, and people throughout the county don't have the same chance. It's not how it's done upcounty either, so they aren't even being consistent.

It would be unfair if you were banned from moving in-bounds. But we all have access to the same info, and as was said earlier, there are plenty of very affordable apartments in the boundary. So move. It is totally fair. It's just not the trade-off you want, or it's not where you want to live, or it's not where you chose to live.

Guess what? I am a parent who would actually consider moving in bounds. But given that MCPS has changed their process for this program multiple times in the last 5-10 years, who can count on the in bounds set aside remaining? I made a real estate decision based on the notion that the 99 percenters and high Cogat scorers would earn a spot. My kid would have absolutely had the scores to get a seat if he were in 8th grade. But he’s not and they changed the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just got an email from TPMS that my kid is in!! Notification letters are also on ParentVue, which is great because our mail had not arrived.

Kid was in the pool for both lotteries, accepted at TPMS which is his home school.

I think a certain percentage of spots at TPMS are reserved for home school students. I am not sure if it's the same for Eastern.

25 are set aside for those in the TPMS catchment, so there is something of a separate lottery for them (same criteria, different pool). I think the ratio of seats to total MS population ends up being about 3 times greater.

That sounds really wrong. The odds of getting in have to be significantly higher.
TPMS has roughly 380 kids in each grade each year. If the top 15 percent are in the pool that's 57 kids. If there are 25 inbound set-aside seats that's a 44 percent chance of getting in!

You'd need to back out the 100 non-catchment magnet seats, so 25 of 280, or about 9 percent of the overall catchment population gets in. That compares to 100 seats there for over 7000 6th grade students from the rest of the lower portion of the county, closer to 1.5 percent of the population. So it's about 6 times more likely to end up in the magnet if you are within the TPMS bounds. That's without considering the relative proportions of those who might qualify based on grades, reading level and locally-normed MAP percentiles (the result is less than the top 15% of MAP scorers). Your estimate of an over 44% chance for pool qualifiers may be on the low side.

As a PP said, it was done that way to make TP a more attractive place to buy back when the program was set up. Problem is, a good portion of the SFH area in TP already was desirable, and was the most likely place for folks magnet-hunting to land. I think it's also outlived its purpose. Politics. What's really a shame, though, is that they didn't expand the program to meet the need, or even to keep pace with population growth.

The set aside for Eastern was smaller (12), but King and Clemente had 25 in-catchment reserved seats to compare with only 50 for out-of-catchment. A real head-scratcher was the set-aside for Potomac for the Chinese Immersion program. Did they need their area made more attractive?
Was it to assuage the already-well-to-do about the influx of hoi palloi from out-of-bounds? Those with outsized influence get everything...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TPMS sets aside 25 seats for in-bounds kids. That's kids coming from PBES and ESS, which have about 225 and 60 kids in 5th (that's this year...I know my kid's cohort was sightly larger because most were conceived right before the recession). So say there are between 275 and 310 kids each year headed to TPMS in the general population. It's a good chance your kid will be selected if they are at the top of their class at PBES or ESS. Mine was. But plenty were not who deserved it. Anyone can move here if you want to: plenty of housing stock at all rental and owner levels.

But that's not fair. It's a county level program, and people throughout the county don't have the same chance. It's not how it's done upcounty either, so they aren't even being consistent.

It would be unfair if you were banned from moving in-bounds. But we all have access to the same info, and as was said earlier, there are plenty of very affordable apartments in the boundary. So move. It is totally fair. It's just not the trade-off you want, or it's not where you want to live, or it's not where you chose to live.

Guess what? I am a parent who would actually consider moving in bounds. But given that MCPS has changed their process for this program multiple times in the last 5-10 years, who can count on the in bounds set aside remaining? I made a real estate decision based on the notion that the 99 percenters and high Cogat scorers would earn a spot. My kid would have absolutely had the scores to get a seat if he were in 8th grade. But he’s not and they changed the process.

Come on magnets never have guaranteed spots and you know that.

If you live MoCo and want an assured good quality experience you move to a W. That's just what you do. And the Ws have special programs too for W only kids. Oh but we don't get to talk about those right? Because poorer neighborhoods can't have nice things without extreme justification. And if you want to tell me how many lovely $1.5 million victorians there are in Takoma Park we can talk about that, but we have to ALSO talk about the many more apartments and low income housing, too, which I am guessing you didn't really ever pass through on your way to Republic for dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The set asides aren't as significant as people think they are. They DO provide an advantage, but TPMS's catchment area is so much larger than other schools, that it's not exponentially more represented. Just more represented. And when you take into account that many from Ws and far away schools turn it down due to commute and logistics, I think this is what the composition would end up being anyway.

Does Eastern do this too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is setting aside an additional 25 spots on top of existing spots for in bounds kids to partake in special programming ANY different than the way Walter Johnson lets only their own kids do APEX? Or the way only RMIB kids can take IB courses in 11th and 12th? Or the way only Blair kids can take magnet electives in 11th and 12th?

Hey WJ parents: let my kid into APEX!!!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT FAIRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Blair and RM aren't lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think MCPS has about 12,000 kids per grade so if you take 15% of that you get 1800. 100 spots for 1800 kids is 5.6 percent of those IN THE POOL. Very low odds.

Not that this back-of-the envelope approach is wrong for this kind of discussion, but there are 75 seats at Clemente for upcounty (25 of those are catchment-reserved, or at least used to be as of last year), and not all of the top 15% of scorers meet the other criteria. Assuming it's more like top 13%, removing the RCMS and TPMS in-bounds populations and using 150 out-of-bounds seats, one gets an estimate of 150 / ((12000 - 500) * 0.13) ~ 10% chance for out-of-bounds pool qualifiers to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC in lottery but not offered seat at TPMS. Fall MAP-M was 264, straight As. Moderate to High FARMS school.

Sorry to hear that. I know it probably seems unfair, but it is just a lottery of the upper 15% for what amounts to a few hundred seats.

I agree with the PP. And since it’s just a lottery, you’re pretty much guaranteed a cohort of other kids who are strong in math at your home middle school. In my opinion, the advanced math pathways for non-magnet are good (AIM in 6th or algebra if your child is very advanced), and the engineering/technology/programming electives are solid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just got an email from TPMS that my kid is in!! Notification letters are also on ParentVue, which is great because our mail had not arrived.

Kid was in the pool for both lotteries, accepted at TPMS which is his home school.

I think a certain percentage of spots at TPMS are reserved for home school students. I am not sure if it's the same for Eastern.

25 are set aside for those in the TPMS catchment, so there is something of a separate lottery for them (same criteria, different pool). I think the ratio of seats to total MS population ends up being about 3 times greater.

That sounds really wrong. The odds of getting in have to be significantly higher.
TPMS has roughly 380 kids in each grade each year. If the top 15 percent are in the pool that's 57 kids. If there are 25 inbound set-aside seats that's a 44 percent chance of getting in!

Your math is wrong. That 380 per grade (I thought it was 400) includes the magnet kids, 100 of whom are from outside the TPMS area.

[Anonymous]

TPMS actually got more than 25. They participated in the first 100 lottery, then the 25 reserved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TPMS actually got more than 25. They participated in the first 100 lottery, then the 25 reserved.

Well that seems unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TPMS actually got more than 25. They participated in the first 100 lottery, then the 25 reserved.

Well that seems unnecessary.

How long has this been happening? And why isn't Blair run like this?