Actress Anne Heche severely burned in fiery car crash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

This enablement and excuses is why we have homeless crackheads all over the streets . No consequences for their actions.

+1

I mean, she's almost certainly going to die and have tarnished/ruined her entire life's work. I'd say that's a consequence, and it's pretty easy to have compassion for all involved.

Not really, she's been driving drunk and joking about it on the air. She could uber instead of being an idiot. SHe should be in prison not on the streets risking kill people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

I’m sure her family has begged and pleaded for her to get help and she didn’t. She also could have given up her access to a car, knowing the possible outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read online that Anne Heche is on life support now & is not expected to survive her injuries.

Apparently she has suffered severe brain injuries + is only being kept alive to see if her organs are still viable for donation.

While I do not personally agree w/what she did - I am sad to see how sadly her life will conclude.

How did she get up in the stretcher if she had the brain injuries? I'm guessing the brain injury was while on a ventilator?

Medical worker here, and have also experienced personally a family member’s brain death. The body can have seizures and other kinds of movement following anoxic injury - in fact, that is the reason that some families refuse to let go of a brain dead family member because the body may still be making involuntary movements including the grasping of hands but those don’t mean that the brain has any level of consciousness. This can even happen in bodies that are brain stem dead, meaning they cannot breathe on their own and will die shortly after removal of mechanical ventilation. My relative’s body took almost half an hour to die after removal of mechanical ventilation, and continued seizing and movement the entire time - but she had no brain activity consistent with continued life.

In Anne’s case, she was still semi conscious when they pulled her from her burning car after an HOUR of inhaling the most toxic mix you can imagine - like being in the middle of a burn pit. Her brain was likely dying slowly the entire time and she was listed as in a coma by the time she was admitted to hospital. She suffered a horrible terrible awful death and I cannot begin to grasp the kind of personality that would vilify someone whose actions have already punished her 1000x more than the law ever would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read online that Anne Heche is on life support now & is not expected to survive her injuries.

Apparently she has suffered severe brain injuries + is only being kept alive to see if her organs are still viable for donation.

While I do not personally agree w/what she did - I am sad to see how sadly her life will conclude.

How did she get up in the stretcher if she had the brain injuries? I'm guessing the brain injury was while on a ventilator?

Medical worker here, and have also experienced personally a family member’s brain death. The body can have seizures and other kinds of movement following anoxic injury - in fact, that is the reason that some families refuse to let go of a brain dead family member because the body may still be making involuntary movements including the grasping of hands but those don’t mean that the brain has any level of consciousness. This can even happen in bodies that are brain stem dead, meaning they cannot breathe on their own and will die shortly after removal of mechanical ventilation. My relative’s body took almost half an hour to die after removal of mechanical ventilation, and continued seizing and movement the entire time - but she had no brain activity consistent with continued life.

In Anne’s case, she was still semi conscious when they pulled her from her burning car after an HOUR of inhaling the most toxic mix you can imagine - like being in the middle of a burn pit. Her brain was likely dying slowly the entire time and she was listed as in a coma by the time she was admitted to hospital. She suffered a horrible terrible awful death and I cannot begin to grasp the kind of personality that would vilify someone whose actions have already punished her 1000x more than the law ever would.

Thank you for the reasonable, compassionate post. As someone who lost a brother too young to addiction, I remember in our grief my family members were incredibly thankful his actions only harmed himself. The harsh judges on this thread have probably not lived through what addictions due to individuals and families. It is a horrible disease that often results in tragedies like this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Not when an addict chooses to endanger others.

You really think Anne Heche made a conscious plan that she would get herself drunk/high/whatever for the specific purpose of getting into her car and crashing into someone’s house? Of course not. She has a disease that compromised her decision making ability. That doesn’t mean she is blameless in all of this, but it is possible to feel compassion for the very obvious demons she was struggling with while also not condoning her behavior here.

The getting in the car while impaired, or continuing to drive her car once impaired is inexcusable. Remember she also crashed once before driving off and crashing finally into someone’s home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

Ahhh there it is, you’ll give a free pass if someone has an addiction. Thankfully you don’t set the laws in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

I’m sure her family has begged and pleaded for her to get help and she didn’t. She also could have given up her access to a car, knowing the possible outcome.

Excellent point. Since she can’t be responsible for her behavior she could have been responsible enough to no longer have a car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read online that Anne Heche is on life support now & is not expected to survive her injuries.

Apparently she has suffered severe brain injuries + is only being kept alive to see if her organs are still viable for donation.

While I do not personally agree w/what she did - I am sad to see how sadly her life will conclude.

How did she get up in the stretcher if she had the brain injuries? I'm guessing the brain injury was while on a ventilator?

Medical worker here, and have also experienced personally a family member’s brain death. The body can have seizures and other kinds of movement following anoxic injury - in fact, that is the reason that some families refuse to let go of a brain dead family member because the body may still be making involuntary movements including the grasping of hands but those don’t mean that the brain has any level of consciousness. This can even happen in bodies that are brain stem dead, meaning they cannot breathe on their own and will die shortly after removal of mechanical ventilation. My relative’s body took almost half an hour to die after removal of mechanical ventilation, and continued seizing and movement the entire time - but she had no brain activity consistent with continued life.

In Anne’s case, she was still semi conscious when they pulled her from her burning car after an HOUR of inhaling the most toxic mix you can imagine - like being in the middle of a burn pit. Her brain was likely dying slowly the entire time and she was listed as in a coma by the time she was admitted to hospital. She suffered a horrible terrible awful death and I cannot begin to grasp the kind of personality that would vilify someone whose actions have already punished her 1000x more than the law ever would.

Where are you reading she was in the car for an hour before being extracted? The news articles all said that it took FF an hour to put out the flames, not an hour to get her out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

Ahhh there it is, you’ll give a free pass if someone has an addiction. Thankfully you don’t set the laws in this country.

DP. No one is saying that there shouldn’t be laws in place that would apply in this case. Properly constructed laws (setting aside for now whether we have appropriate laws) can have an significant role in addressing addiction issues and the damage they can cause. But you can have laws in place and agree they should be enforced while also having compassion for the person who violated them.

In very simplicities form, it’s like the cliched ethical example of the person who steals bread to feed their starving family. We can agree there should be consequences for the theft while also having compassion for the person so desperate to save their family from starvation that they think stealing a loaf of bread is their only option for doing so in the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

I’m sure her family has begged and pleaded for her to get help and she didn’t. She also could have given up her access to a car, knowing the possible outcome.

Excellent point. Since she can’t be responsible for her behavior she could have been responsible enough to no longer have a car.

So you admit she did not have adequate decision making ability to be allowed to operate a motor vehicle, but believe she did have adequate decision making ability to recognize she did not have adequate decision making ability to drive and therefore should surrender her vehicle? That’s convenient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

Ahhh there it is, you’ll give a free pass if someone has an addiction. Thankfully you don’t set the laws in this country.

DP. No one is saying that there shouldn’t be laws in place that would apply in this case. Properly constructed laws (setting aside for now whether we have appropriate laws) can have an significant role in addressing addiction issues and the damage they can cause. But you can have laws in place and agree they should be enforced while also having compassion for the person who violated them.

In very simplicities form, it’s like the cliched ethical example of the person who steals bread to feed their starving family. We can agree there should be consequences for the theft while also having compassion for the person so desperate to save their family from starvation that they think stealing a loaf of bread is their only option for doing so in the moment.

No, what Anne did is nothing like the example you provided. In your example, the person being stolen from isn’t at risk of physical harm from the thief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read online that Anne Heche is on life support now & is not expected to survive her injuries.

Apparently she has suffered severe brain injuries + is only being kept alive to see if her organs are still viable for donation.

While I do not personally agree w/what she did - I am sad to see how sadly her life will conclude.

How did she get up in the stretcher if she had the brain injuries? I'm guessing the brain injury was while on a ventilator?

Medical worker here, and have also experienced personally a family member’s brain death. The body can have seizures and other kinds of movement following anoxic injury - in fact, that is the reason that some families refuse to let go of a brain dead family member because the body may still be making involuntary movements including the grasping of hands but those don’t mean that the brain has any level of consciousness. This can even happen in bodies that are brain stem dead, meaning they cannot breathe on their own and will die shortly after removal of mechanical ventilation. My relative’s body took almost half an hour to die after removal of mechanical ventilation, and continued seizing and movement the entire time - but she had no brain activity consistent with continued life.

In Anne’s case, she was still semi conscious when they pulled her from her burning car after an HOUR of inhaling the most toxic mix you can imagine - like being in the middle of a burn pit. Her brain was likely dying slowly the entire time and she was listed as in a coma by the time she was admitted to hospital. She suffered a horrible terrible awful death and I cannot begin to grasp the kind of personality that would vilify someone whose actions have already punished her 1000x more than the law ever would.

Where are you reading she was in the car for an hour before being extracted? The news articles all said that it took FF an hour to put out the flames, not an hour to get her out.

Every story I have read indicates she was in the car for an hour before they could extinguish the fire sufficiently to extricate her. Right after the crash neighbors tried to get her out but were unable to and the smoke overcame them so they retreated.

Per the LAFD, 59 firefighters took 65 minutes to access, confine and fully extinguish the stubborn flames within the heavily damaged structure, and rescue one female adult found within the vehicle, who was taken to an area hospital by LAFD paramedics in critical condition. No other injuries were reported, the LAFD said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

Ahhh there it is, you’ll give a free pass if someone has an addiction. Thankfully you don’t set the laws in this country.

DP. No one is saying that there shouldn’t be laws in place that would apply in this case. Properly constructed laws (setting aside for now whether we have appropriate laws) can have an significant role in addressing addiction issues and the damage they can cause. But you can have laws in place and agree they should be enforced while also having compassion for the person who violated them.

In very simplicities form, it’s like the cliched ethical example of the person who steals bread to feed their starving family. We can agree there should be consequences for the theft while also having compassion for the person so desperate to save their family from starvation that they think stealing a loaf of bread is their only option for doing so in the moment.

No, what Anne did is nothing like the example you provided. In your example, the person being stolen from isn’t at risk of physical harm from the thief.

Oh really? What is, in chasing the their, the bakery owner tripped on the door sill, fell out onto the pavement and suffered a brain injury? The thief may not have intended it to occur, but it only would have occurred because of the theft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

Ahhh there it is, you’ll give a free pass if someone has an addiction. Thankfully you don’t set the laws in this country.

DP. No one is saying that there shouldn’t be laws in place that would apply in this case. Properly constructed laws (setting aside for now whether we have appropriate laws) can have an significant role in addressing addiction issues and the damage they can cause. But you can have laws in place and agree they should be enforced while also having compassion for the person who violated them.

In very simplicities form, it’s like the cliched ethical example of the person who steals bread to feed their starving family. We can agree there should be consequences for the theft while also having compassion for the person so desperate to save their family from starvation that they think stealing a loaf of bread is their only option for doing so in the moment.

No, what Anne did is nothing like the example you provided. In your example, the person being stolen from isn’t at risk of physical harm from the thief.

Oh really? What is, in chasing the their, the bakery owner tripped on the door sill, fell out onto the pavement and suffered a brain injury? The thief may not have intended it to occur, but it only would have occurred because of the theft.

Nope. Still not applicable. In Anne’s case she was speeding, weaving, and crashed once before her final crash. So again, not an accurate comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very frustrated that so many folks are vilifying her on what appears to be incomplete information. It was first reported that she was drunk and yet the toxicology shows she had no alcohol in her system. Now it’s being reported she was high on cocaine, but the reports are that she had fentanyl and other narcotics on board - all of which could have been administered by first responders in the ambulance or as she entered the hospital - the pain from burns is the most extreme known to man so fentanyl would be the go to pain relief of choice for a burn victim coming in from a fire accident scene. They were not able to take blood immediately because of the hypervolemia and hypoperfusion that takes place in the human body following severe burns. As a former prosecutor I can attest that it is highly unlikely that a detailed breakdown of the toxicology is available less than a week following her accident, and likely when official results are available it will be indeterminate whether she had any substances on board while driving - but her reputation has already been destroyed by irresponsible reporting that cites not one single named source for the declarations being made about her status at the time of the crash.

Clearly something was going on, but Anne has struggled with serious mental illness for almost all her adult life - a normal consequence of having been raped by her father in infancy and contracting herpes as an infant as a result and having a heartless monster of a mother who never believed her and never supported her in any way in her coping with that early childhood trauma. Anne never had the choice to be a healthy person, just like millions of abused children who struggle all their lives to grapple with ptsd from childhood. She tried hard and worked hard and sometimes failed, but she is not deserving of the vilification of the holier than thous here and elsewhere on social media who are speaking of her as though she’s garbage. Hope the karma bus runs all of you over, then backs up and runs over you again.

Yes she is. She was reckless with the lives of others. She is deserving of that.

+1 the PP “prosecutor” can GFH. Any sympathy for Anne’s issues ends with her reckless behavior that day.

It is possible to show compassion for both the addict and for the people harmed by the addict's behavior. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, no sympathy for addicts who show wonton disregard for others.

Addicts aren't typically make sound decisions about how their behavior impacts others or themselves...they're addicts. They're not in control-the addiction is in control. It's a disease. Haven't you ever watched Intervention? Maybe open your eyes a little to what this disease does to someone.

Ahhh there it is, you’ll give a free pass if someone has an addiction. Thankfully you don’t set the laws in this country.

I'm not giving her a free pass--what I'm saying is that the disease was in control of her decisionmaking. Had she lived she should have faced the criminal consequences of what happened AND should have been sent somewhere to get treatment.