Oakton crash

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/

I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

Wait, so he is 18? I thought that earlier reporting suggested that he was a minor (I know I was 17 until partway through my first year in college).
Hypothetically, if he were 17 at the time of the incident but turned 18 before the trial, would he be charged as an adult or a minor?

There have been various reports. Obviously, you would think the FCPD announcement would be most accurate. In this video (yesterday, I think) NBC reporter says they were all 17 (in the BMW). https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/2-dead-3-hurt-high-speed-pedestrian-crash-fairfax-near-oakton-high-school/3071454/

Also, notice how far from the intersection the BMW is when it stopped. It's about a block south of the intersection where the impact with the Toyota happened. That BMW HAD to be going very fast to get that far from the impact, and the additional impact with the utility pole.

I still can't understand how this lined up, though. The Toyota impacted the BWM at the front of the Toyota. Based on the paint marks (green) on the side of the BMW, it appears that the Toyota made contact on the driver's side of the BMW.... so that would imply that the Toyota hit the side of the BMW (like a T-bone). But, that doesn't make sense with the BMW being at fault.

Can anyone make out how the impact might have happened? Who was where? Based on the pictures of the cars?

The 4runner is most likely at fault for turning into the path of the BMW.

Anyone can pull up the intersection on google maps. There's a blind turn in the road leading up to the intersection, so if some lunatic went around the turn going 100+mph, there's no way the 4runner driver could have seen them in time.

[Anonymous]

People do speed and drive recklessly on Blake lane. I avoid it if possible. This accident is so awful.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

He turned into the path of an oncoming car - a car with the right away.

BMW lost right of way by speeding. It's in the virginia code posted upthread.

Absolutely. Likely 2 charges of vehicular manslaughter, charge of reckless driving, speeding, and operating in an unsafe manner. Perhaps 15-20 years incarcerated.

I highly doubt that re: jail time. I'd expect a year or two at most, plus community service, and some period of probation. I wouldn't be surprised if he only had a few months of jail or home confinement. BMW driver will be portrayed as having a bright future, and that it was a tragedy all around, good kid, very sorry, etc, etc, ...family pays a lot in lawyer fees and some payment to girls' families. And he'll go on to college a lityle later.

You are dreaming if you think he'll get 15+years.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the BMW had just left Oakton high school and had made the left off of Sutton Rd onto Blake Lane or if he had been coming down Blake lane. I’m sure the accident investigators will piece it together.

Such a sad loss of life for those young women and their families.

[Anonymous]

Channel 4 just said that the BMW driver graduated from OHS last Friday.

[Anonymous]

What’s OHS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s OHS?

Oakton high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Channel 4 just said that the BMW driver graduated from OHS last Friday.

Well, at least FCPS doesn't have to think about where to transfer him to while this is litigated. His college, on the other hand, is going to have to make a decision.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

He turned into the path of an oncoming car - a car with the right away.

BMW lost right of way by speeding. It's in the virginia code posted upthread.

Absolutely. Likely 2 charges of vehicular manslaughter, charge of reckless driving, speeding, and operating in an unsafe manner. Perhaps 15-20 years incarcerated.

I highly doubt that re: jail time. I'd expect a year or two at most, plus community service, and some period of probation. I wouldn't be surprised if he only had a few months of jail or home confinement. BMW driver will be portrayed as having a bright future, and that it was a tragedy all around, good kid, very sorry, etc, etc, ...family pays a lot in lawyer fees and some payment to girls' families. And he'll go on to college a lityle later.

You are dreaming if you think he'll get 15+years.

A similar incident in MD sent the young driver to jail for 12 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the BMW had just left Oakton high school and had made the left off of Sutton Rd onto Blake Lane or if he had been coming down Blake lane. I’m sure the accident investigators will piece it together.

Such a sad loss of life for those young women and their families.

If he just picked up a sibling or underclass friends, he probably came from Sutton, taking the left onto Blake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the BMW had just left Oakton high school and had made the left off of Sutton Rd onto Blake Lane or if he had been coming down Blake lane. I’m sure the accident investigators will piece it together.

Such a sad loss of life for those young women and their families.

If he just picked up a sibling or underclass friends, he probably came from Sutton, taking the left onto Blake.

Could he have realistically been going that fast if he had just turned off of Sutton? The car went pretty far by the time it finally stopped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the BMW had just left Oakton high school and had made the left off of Sutton Rd onto Blake Lane or if he had been coming down Blake lane. I’m sure the accident investigators will piece it together.

Such a sad loss of life for those young women and their families.

If he just picked up a sibling or underclass friends, he probably came from Sutton, taking the left onto Blake.

That’s my assumption too. And if true, it means went went from a “turning speed” of 15-20mph to 80mph or greater in a short distance. So senseless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

He turned into the path of an oncoming car - a car with the right away.

BMW lost right of way by speeding. It's in the virginia code posted upthread.

Absolutely. Likely 2 charges of vehicular manslaughter, charge of reckless driving, speeding, and operating in an unsafe manner. Perhaps 15-20 years incarcerated.

I highly doubt that re: jail time. I'd expect a year or two at most, plus community service, and some period of probation. I wouldn't be surprised if he only had a few months of jail or home confinement. BMW driver will be portrayed as having a bright future, and that it was a tragedy all around, good kid, very sorry, etc, etc, ...family pays a lot in lawyer fees and some payment to girls' families. And he'll go on to college a lityle later.

You are dreaming if you think he'll get 15+years.

A similar incident in MD sent the young driver to jail for 12 years.

That's right. 115 MPH in a BMW killing 3 people got 12 years for a 21 year old. The VA driver is going away for a long time. Likely be in his 30's when released.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the BMW had just left Oakton high school and had made the left off of Sutton Rd onto Blake Lane or if he had been coming down Blake lane. I’m sure the accident investigators will piece it together.

Such a sad loss of life for those young women and their families.

If he just picked up a sibling or underclass friends, he probably came from Sutton, taking the left onto Blake.

Could he have realistically been going that fast if he had just turned off of Sutton? The car went pretty far by the time it finally stopped.

Google maps has the distance from the Sutton Dr intersection to the Five Oaks Rd intersection at .196 of a mile or 355 yards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

His mistake. The dead girls didn't make a mistake.

He didn't even "make a mistake." He made an "intentional." A "mistake" is an accident, unintended, unexpected. This BMW driver intentionally drove in such a fast reckless manner that it was obvious he had no ability to stop. I almost feel like it's worse that he's 18. At least a 16 or 17 yr old has the "lack of experience" explanation. By the time you are 18, you've surely driven quite a few times. You know you can't be going 80+ on any roads in Fairfax County.... especially roads with stop lights.

My recentLy finished drivers Ed DD informed me that 80 mph is per se reckless endangerment on any road in the state.
Your license will be removed and you will be charged with RE.

Citation? I do not think so, unless that is somewhat recent.

Adult relative ticketed in southern VA (near NC border) driving on a 70 MPH road in excess of 80. License was not removed. Got a citation to appear in court (optional) and pay a big fine (not optional). License was suspended in VA for 30 days. Person is not a VA resident, so little impact on that.

As mentioned. Citation is a 17 year old who passed the written portion of the test in the last year. This could well apply to provisional licenses only.

I was seeking an actual citation about removal of one's license, not what your kid recalls from a test, maybe. Perhaps it is provisional licenses. thanks.

And someone lasted it a page back. 20 miles over or 85 mph, whichever is lower.

Citation that you lose your license. Forget it. No one here can read.