Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Prepping for a test is in no way ‘gaming the system’.

Prepping for a CoGar test is as much ‘gaming the system’ as shooting 50 free throws is or practicing soccer drills.

Both are practice. And practice helps your improve your skills. In test-taking or in sports. Why is one acceptable to you and not the other? Or is it just dependent on the race of the kid doing the practicing.

You're making a good case for MCPS dropping the CogAT test permanently.

DP.. let's say they drop cogat. What measure should they use?

I'd be ok with MAP scores. But, do you think that if the only looked at MAP scores that the demographics of the high scorers would look that differently?

Why? Kids that did math prep would score high. Kids who didn't get advanced math instruction would score low. Do you think that's a good way to identify high-ability students who aren't getting their needs met at their home schools? I don't.

So how would you propose we identify high ability?

Still thinking?

Here's the thing. There is no way to identify high ability through testing that isn't impacted by practicing for the test. So either we all agree not to practice or we all agree not to use tests. Or...the school systems uses "multiple measures" and a lottery to reduce the distortions caused by practice effects which in turn result from differences in family resources. But you want to know the test so your DC can benefit from differences in family resources. That's fine too.

Why are you making assumptions? There are many posters here - not just one. I don't want to know the test at all. I am absolutely fine with it being completely secret format/novel/changed every year. Would you be ok with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Prepping for a test is in no way ‘gaming the system’.

Prepping for a CoGar test is as much ‘gaming the system’ as shooting 50 free throws is or practicing soccer drills.

Both are practice. And practice helps your improve your skills. In test-taking or in sports. Why is one acceptable to you and not the other? Or is it just dependent on the race of the kid doing the practicing.

You're making a good case for MCPS dropping the CogAT test permanently.

DP.. let's say they drop cogat. What measure should they use?

I'd be ok with MAP scores. But, do you think that if the only looked at MAP scores that the demographics of the high scorers would look that differently?

Why? Kids that did math prep would score high. Kids who didn't get advanced math instruction would score low. Do you think that's a good way to identify high-ability students who aren't getting their needs met at their home schools? I don't.

So how would you propose we identify high ability?

Still thinking?

Here's the thing. There is no way to identify high ability through testing that isn't impacted by practicing for the test. So either we all agree not to practice or we all agree not to use tests. Or...the school systems uses "multiple measures" and a lottery to reduce the distortions caused by practice effects which in turn result from differences in family resources. But you want to know the test so your DC can benefit from differences in family resources. That's fine too.

Why are you making assumptions? There are many posters here - not just one. I don't want to know the test at all. I am absolutely fine with it being completely secret format/novel/changed every year. Would you be ok with that?

Sorry, my mistake. Thread seemed to have gone over to hating MCPS because they won't say right now what test they will use. But here's the thing - The gifted child advocacy groups all say use multiple measures. They don't say mean " multiple tests. " MAP scores are profoundly influenced by outside exposure to material beyond grade level. COGAT results are "invalid" if you take the test to close to your prior taking of the test. SAT lets you take the test multiple times and just use your highest section score from each of several attempts. Testing is a game, not a valid determiner of the difference between 92% intelligence and 99th %. The schools are attempting to cope by using multiple measures and lotteries. That's where we are. Some are happy, others are unhappy, especially some of the people who have DCs with 99% scores as that seems to them to prove what they believe about deserving DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Prepping for a test is in no way ‘gaming the system’.

Prepping for a CoGar test is as much ‘gaming the system’ as shooting 50 free throws is or practicing soccer drills.

Both are practice. And practice helps your improve your skills. In test-taking or in sports. Why is one acceptable to you and not the other? Or is it just dependent on the race of the kid doing the practicing.

You're making a good case for MCPS dropping the CogAT test permanently.

DP.. let's say they drop cogat. What measure should they use?

I'd be ok with MAP scores. But, do you think that if the only looked at MAP scores that the demographics of the high scorers would look that differently?

Why? Kids that did math prep would score high. Kids who didn't get advanced math instruction would score low. Do you think that's a good way to identify high-ability students who aren't getting their needs met at their home schools? I don't.

So how would you propose we identify high ability?

Still thinking?

Here's the thing. There is no way to identify high ability through testing that isn't impacted by practicing for the test. So either we all agree not to practice or we all agree not to use tests. Or...the school systems uses "multiple measures" and a lottery to reduce the distortions caused by practice effects which in turn result from differences in family resources. But you want to know the test so your DC can benefit from differences in family resources. That's fine too.

Why are you making assumptions? There are many posters here - not just one. I don't want to know the test at all. I am absolutely fine with it being completely secret format/novel/changed every year. Would you be ok with that?

Sorry, my mistake. Thread seemed to have gone over to hating MCPS because they won't say right now what test they will use. But here's the thing - The gifted child advocacy groups all say use multiple measures. They don't say mean " multiple tests. " MAP scores are profoundly influenced by outside exposure to material beyond grade level. COGAT results are "invalid" if you take the test to close to your prior taking of the test. SAT lets you take the test multiple times and just use your highest section score from each of several attempts. Testing is a game, not a valid determiner of the difference between 92% intelligence and 99th %. The schools are attempting to cope by using multiple measures and lotteries. That's where we are. Some are happy, others are unhappy, especially some of the people who have DCs with 99% scores as that seems to them to prove what they believe about deserving DC.

and how do these gifted child advocacy groups that you refer to measure giftedness?

[Anonymous]

My guess is that at least some of these anonymous blogs are generated by the more corrupt central office staff.

There were two main reasons why certain MCPS staff and the board wanted to dump any Nationally standardized test or recognized program (not just CogAT, but Mensa, etc.).

First, since it's Nationally recognized, they couldn't spin the results. A National test is a National test. It makes MPCS look good or bad, as the case may be and it's difficult to argue against.

Second, it provides a judge or federal investigator evidence of wrongdoing. For example, when MCPS is caught discriminating in Magnet program admissions.

To all the parents out there who want to see MCPS climb out of the swamp - never let MCPS diverge from Nationally-recognized testing. You'll see corruption, nepotism and favoritism far worse than it is now - mark my words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Prepping for a test is in no way ‘gaming the system’.

Prepping for a CoGar test is as much ‘gaming the system’ as shooting 50 free throws is or practicing soccer drills.

Both are practice. And practice helps your improve your skills. In test-taking or in sports. Why is one acceptable to you and not the other? Or is it just dependent on the race of the kid doing the practicing.

You're making a good case for MCPS dropping the CogAT test permanently.

DP.. let's say they drop cogat. What measure should they use?

I'd be ok with MAP scores. But, do you think that if the only looked at MAP scores that the demographics of the high scorers would look that differently?

Why? Kids that did math prep would score high. Kids who didn't get advanced math instruction would score low. Do you think that's a good way to identify high-ability students who aren't getting their needs met at their home schools? I don't.

So how would you propose we identify high ability?

Still thinking?

Here's the thing. There is no way to identify high ability through testing that isn't impacted by practicing for the test. So either we all agree not to practice or we all agree not to use tests. Or...the school systems uses "multiple measures" and a lottery to reduce the distortions caused by practice effects which in turn result from differences in family resources. But you want to know the test so your DC can benefit from differences in family resources. That's fine too.

Why are you making assumptions? There are many posters here - not just one. I don't want to know the test at all. I am absolutely fine with it being completely secret format/novel/changed every year. Would you be ok with that?

Sorry, my mistake. Thread seemed to have gone over to hating MCPS because they won't say right now what test they will use. But here's the thing - The gifted child advocacy groups all say use multiple measures. They don't say mean " multiple tests. " MAP scores are profoundly influenced by outside exposure to material beyond grade level. COGAT results are "invalid" if you take the test to close to your prior taking of the test. SAT lets you take the test multiple times and just use your highest section score from each of several attempts. Testing is a game, not a valid determiner of the difference between 92% intelligence and 99th %. The schools are attempting to cope by using multiple measures and lotteries. That's where we are. Some are happy, others are unhappy, especially some of the people who have DCs with 99% scores as that seems to them to prove what they believe about deserving DC.

Essentially you don't want any objective method of testing. Even if it is non-standard. Understood. What about grading in these schools? Should they be testing to measure progress? Or continue using multiple measures and lotteries instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one knows anything. I would love for the person who keeps insulting people to provide a link on the MCPS website that "clearly" explains what they are doing this year. MCPS is just an embarrassing organization.

Not that PP, but the MCPS website does clearly state that information is coming, possibly as soon as this week. Not having released it YET is not actually the same as never releasing it.

The school year has already started. Central Office doesn’t have summer off. Yet they have not posted any information yet aside from a crafty person seeing that they have included CogAT testing in the calendar. So the question is are they intentionally withholding this information? Are they so incompetent that they are still trying to figure out what they are doing? Or are they taking so long because they need to run numbers to figure out how to design a process to maximize the outcome they want to achieve?

Without transparency from MCPS, what we are left with is guess either incompetence or malevolence.

Why do you want to know this information? Without you telling me that I am left with a guess. I guess you are feeling pressured in deciding which paid programs will best serve you in gaming the system.

That true! They want to find ways to cheat and this is why MCPS needs to hold their cards closely. These parents claim it's like practicing free throws but it's more like paying Michael Jordan to do it for your sub 85% kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually they do but with all the inflated scores of the less gifted preppers they get drowned out. There just aren't enough seats.

They don't. They're letting some kids in the ghetto schools into the program with an 85%. That's average.

"Ghetto schools." Cute.

Trolls gotta make a living, too, I guess.

Since my 85% is from CCES that's one of the ghetto schools?

I wonder how someone got into the GT program with an 85% at CCES. Hmmmm.

It was a lottery. One in 15 are 85%.
What?

[Anonymous]

It's never fair if your child is not chosen, even in a lottery draw.
I'm glad my child does not have to be at the bus stop at 6:30am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, my mistake. Thread seemed to have gone over to hating MCPS because they won't say right now what test they will use. But here's the thing - The gifted child advocacy groups all say use multiple measures. They don't say mean " multiple tests. " MAP scores are profoundly influenced by outside exposure to material beyond grade level. COGAT results are "invalid" if you take the test to close to your prior taking of the test. SAT lets you take the test multiple times and just use your highest section score from each of several attempts. Testing is a game, not a valid determiner of the difference between 92% intelligence and 99th %. The schools are attempting to cope by using multiple measures and lotteries. That's where we are. Some are happy, others are unhappy, especially some of the people who have DCs with 99% scores as that seems to them to prove what they believe about deserving DC.

For full accuracy: that's where the thread started. That's where all such threads start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Prepping for a test is in no way ‘gaming the system’.

Prepping for a CoGar test is as much ‘gaming the system’ as shooting 50 free throws is or practicing soccer drills.

Both are practice. And practice helps your improve your skills. In test-taking or in sports. Why is one acceptable to you and not the other? Or is it just dependent on the race of the kid doing the practicing.

You're making a good case for MCPS dropping the CogAT test permanently.

DP.. let's say they drop cogat. What measure should they use?

I'd be ok with MAP scores. But, do you think that if the only looked at MAP scores that the demographics of the high scorers would look that differently?

Why? Kids that did math prep would score high. Kids who didn't get advanced math instruction would score low. Do you think that's a good way to identify high-ability students who aren't getting their needs met at their home schools? I don't.

So how would you propose we identify high ability?

Still thinking?

Here's the thing. There is no way to identify high ability through testing that isn't impacted by practicing for the test. So either we all agree not to practice or we all agree not to use tests. Or...the school systems uses "multiple measures" and a lottery to reduce the distortions caused by practice effects which in turn result from differences in family resources. But you want to know the test so your DC can benefit from differences in family resources. That's fine too.

"multiple measures" aka the black box of magnet admissions.

The MCPS Way!

If they tell everything, people will try to game it.

Except in previous years those measures were expressly listed on their website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Prepping for a test is in no way ‘gaming the system’.

Prepping for a CoGar test is as much ‘gaming the system’ as shooting 50 free throws is or practicing soccer drills.

Both are practice. And practice helps your improve your skills. In test-taking or in sports. Why is one acceptable to you and not the other? Or is it just dependent on the race of the kid doing the practicing.

You're making a good case for MCPS dropping the CogAT test permanently.

DP.. let's say they drop cogat. What measure should they use?

I'd be ok with MAP scores. But, do you think that if the only looked at MAP scores that the demographics of the high scorers would look that differently?

Why? Kids that did math prep would score high. Kids who didn't get advanced math instruction would score low. Do you think that's a good way to identify high-ability students who aren't getting their needs met at their home schools? I don't.

So how would you propose we identify high ability?

Still thinking?

Here's the thing. There is no way to identify high ability through testing that isn't impacted by practicing for the test. So either we all agree not to practice or we all agree not to use tests. Or...the school systems uses "multiple measures" and a lottery to reduce the distortions caused by practice effects which in turn result from differences in family resources. But you want to know the test so your DC can benefit from differences in family resources. That's fine too.

"multiple measures" aka the black box of magnet admissions.

The MCPS Way!

If they tell everything, people will try to game it.

Except in previous years those measures were expressly listed on their website.

Yup. Again we are back to either assuming that it’s deliberate or that they are incompetent or both.

[Anonymous]

Back to OP's original question.
You betcha they did! The sneaky thing, I mean.
Are you surprised?
I am not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to OP's original question.
You betcha they did! The sneaky thing, I mean.
Are you surprised?
I am not.

OP's instinct was right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to OP's original question.
You betcha they did! The sneaky thing, I mean.
Are you surprised?
I am not.

OP's instinct was right.

Do we have any legal recourse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to OP's original question.
You betcha they did! The sneaky thing, I mean.
Are you surprised?
I am not.

20 pages later and I still don't know what "the sneaky thing" is.

OP seemed to think it was screening a bunch of kids, but we know screening has become almost universal. So that's not "the sneaky thing."

So....what is it?