Preschool complaining about 4 year old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the comments and recommendations.

A few details without giving myself away just in case. My DD's preschool is a 'feeder' preschool to a academically rigorous private school that her sibling is at. I just compared my elementary school child's schedule with my preschooler and my older child has far less transitions. DD's preschool teacher is new and this is her first year as a lead teacher. My DD had a similar schedule in her 3 year old class with no known issues, but that class had a seasoned teacher that ADORED her.

DD is very strong willed, very social and spirited. She has a strong desire for independence and we give her many opportunities at home to do things on her own.

We did bring up concerns to our pediatrician at her last well check and a ASQ (?) screening was done and she scored in the white zone for all areas which they said means she was developing as expected. However, I do see some traits that look like ADHD to me. She's high energy, impulsive and very sensitive to people being upset with her. She often says that she feels like "nobody likes her." But she does well during sit down activities, listening during story time, taking turns, etc.

I don't want to dismiss her teacher, clearly she's behaving out of step of her peers and perhaps further evaluation or we need to look for a school that's a better fit for her... We'll see how the next few months go and see if we can find improvement together.

Watchful waiting is not the solution. Time is not your friend here. I second the Childfind or similar evaluation resource.

--parent of now college age ADHD/ASD student who was counseled out of private-K (after similar concerns in pre-K)

+1

OP the traits you mentioned above are what we experienced with our HF ASD daughter. Our ped NEVER caught it. A few very good intune teachers gave us subtle hints. She was not diagnosed until 15 but looking back I remember what you describe. She is on anxiety meds and therapy and doing great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an early childhood educator, I would see if you could find a different program that doesn't have every 45 minute transitions! That's a LOT for 4 year olds. At my former program our children were heavily involved in play and exploration from arrival at 8am until we went outside at 10am. Then they were outside until 11:30am when they came in for lunch. That means that they didn't HAVE to transition - in the 2 hour indoor time at the beginning of the day, each child probably did 10 different things, but it was based on their interest and how they moved through the room. All children didn't have to move en masse - until it was time to go outside.

See the difference? See if you can find a play-based program. If you tell us where you are, you might find some new options

I’m also an early childhood educator and a transition change every 45 minutes is a lot!

May I ask why you signed up for this particular program and are you able to switch to a play based program with less transitions?

This is the program her sibling was in and it was great for him. It was great for DD until she moved to this class.

It's possible her challenges are becoming more noticeable as the classes mature. I'll start researching play-based programs.

She’s not her sibling. They are not clones. Why are you being so rigid? Don’t be that parent who ignores your child’s challenges.

[Anonymous]

Evaluate AND get a new environment with fewer transitions. Look at play based, forest schools, and accredited Montessori programs.

[Anonymous]

I guess I’m firmly in the play based preschool camp, but this preschool sounds awful. It’s very hard to diagnose a 4 year old because things like difficulty transitioning activities are so normal. I have a kid who would have been a disaster at 4 at a program like the one you describe who is now thriving in elementary school. I would question the structure of this preschool program. And given the issues you describe, I think it’s frankly bizarre that your child moved up classes early. I’m guessing this had little to do with your child’s needs and more to do with the kids they wanted to admit and the money they wanted to make on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 4 year old DD is strong willed and resists transitions at preschool, which occur every 45 mins. She'll run and hide like a game or stay put until a teacher convinces her to join the group. Once she's at the new activity, she's fine, but it's stressing out the teachers who need to stay on schedule to the point where they said they need to start documenting her behavior. She's been in the class for 6 months and this is the first I've heard of this specific problem. Typically at pick up I'm told she had a great day... I'm not sure what to do or how to help her. At home, she resists bedtimes, anything unfun, but it happens with typical hounding. We keep a schedule and are able to stick to it, but there aren't 15 kids to wrangle.

Everyone on DCUM knows what this means

[Anonymous]

I am a special educator with experience in inclusive play based programs, and I am curious about people saying that transitions on average every 45 minutes is a lot. Here is the schedule for the last preschool I taught, on days we didn’t have music class.

9:00 Car to playing on the playground
9:30 playground to bathroom to wash hands
9:35 bathroom to snack table
9:45 snack to circle time (song, finger play, story time)
10:00 circle to free play in the classroom
10:55 free play to clean up
11:05 clean up to outside play
11:55 outside play to waiting for carpool
12:00 waiting to going home

So, a simple day with lots of free play and still 9 transitions in a 3 hour day, and an average of a transition every 20 minutes.

45 minute average between transition is longer than I have ever seen. Maybe a Montessori classroom, but even then I think there are going to be more than people think yes, you might have one long work block, but kids are transitioning from working by themselves to being asked to do a group with a teacher etc . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your Preschool is trying to let you know what is going on with your kid is beyond the scope of "normal" for a child her age... think of this as a gift to get her screened so you can find the best way to help her no matter what is going on.

+1

OP sounds like you are going all the right things including looking for a better fit preschool. That said, I think 45 mins sounds like a lot but in a day at our play-based school they have (before lunch): centers (with some rotating of too many kids want to do the same one), circle time, playing outside or going on a walk. They have to get sun screened, wash hands etc when told to. So it's a lot of transition even if the activities are mostly unstructured.

[Anonymous]

Decrease the hounding and negotiation at home. She gets a warning, a command, and a reminder - that’s it. Or that should be the goal you’re working towards.


It sounds like you’re letting transitions drag forever at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a special educator with experience in inclusive play based programs, and I am curious about people saying that transitions on average every 45 minutes is a lot. Here is the schedule for the last preschool I taught, on days we didn’t have music class.

9:00 Car to playing on the playground
9:30 playground to bathroom to wash hands
9:35 bathroom to snack table
9:45 snack to circle time (song, finger play, story time)
10:00 circle to free play in the classroom
10:55 free play to clean up
11:05 clean up to outside play
11:55 outside play to waiting for carpool
12:00 waiting to going home

So, a simple day with lots of free play and still 9 transitions in a 3 hour day, and an average of a transition every 20 minutes.

45 minute average between transition is longer than I have ever seen. Maybe a Montessori classroom, but even then I think there are going to be more than people think yes, you might have one long work block, but kids are transitioning from working by themselves to being asked to do a group with a teacher etc . . .

i agree- my kid is at a reggio preschool that we LOVE but there's similar amount of transitions-- play in room 30 min, snack, bathroom break, go outside, play more, lunch, bathroom break. montessori sounds like a horrible fit for a kid that has potential adhd/asd

[Anonymous]

Your child clearly has ADHD and needs to be evaluated.

[Anonymous]

Spirited and strong willed are coded language for difficult

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a special educator with experience in inclusive play based programs, and I am curious about people saying that transitions on average every 45 minutes is a lot. Here is the schedule for the last preschool I taught, on days we didn’t have music class.

9:00 Car to playing on the playground
9:30 playground to bathroom to wash hands
9:35 bathroom to snack table
9:45 snack to circle time (song, finger play, story time)
10:00 circle to free play in the classroom
10:55 free play to clean up
11:05 clean up to outside play
11:55 outside play to waiting for carpool
12:00 waiting to going home

So, a simple day with lots of free play and still 9 transitions in a 3 hour day, and an average of a transition every 20 minutes.

45 minute average between transition is longer than I have ever seen. Maybe a Montessori classroom, but even then I think there are going to be more than people think yes, you might have one long work block, but kids are transitioning from working by themselves to being asked to do a group with a teacher etc . . .

I thought it sounded like a lot but see your points here. However, OP sounds like she’s talking about FT hours which can be a lot more to manage than a 3 hour day like you describe. Maybe she can share more about what a typical day looks like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your child clearly has ADHD and needs to be evaluated.

Although it’s a possibility, children don’t “clearly” have adhd at 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Decrease the hounding and negotiation at home. She gets a warning, a command, and a reminder - that’s it. Or that should be the goal you’re working towards.


It sounds like you’re letting transitions drag forever at home.

This. Parents often don’t even realize the they say things like “do you want to take a bath now?” Instead of “it’s bath time” and kids think it’s up for negotiation. Then if the kid keeps playing and you let them keep playing 5 minutes Monday and 3 minutes Tuesday and 10 minutes Wednesday, you are setting your kid up to know you’ll break if they push you. Inconsistency is the worst for strong willed kids.

Be clear with your communication and expectations and follow through.

Do this before blaming the teacher and pursuing diagnoses. Look for a parent coach or watch super nanny to get ideas. Also, be on the same page with your spouse, use the same language and have the same expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a special educator with experience in inclusive play based programs, and I am curious about people saying that transitions on average every 45 minutes is a lot. Here is the schedule for the last preschool I taught, on days we didn’t have music class.

9:00 Car to playing on the playground
9:30 playground to bathroom to wash hands
9:35 bathroom to snack table
9:45 snack to circle time (song, finger play, story time)
10:00 circle to free play in the classroom
10:55 free play to clean up
11:05 clean up to outside play
11:55 outside play to waiting for carpool
12:00 waiting to going home

So, a simple day with lots of free play and still 9 transitions in a 3 hour day, and an average of a transition every 20 minutes.

45 minute average between transition is longer than I have ever seen. Maybe a Montessori classroom, but even then I think there are going to be more than people think yes, you might have one long work block, but kids are transitioning from working by themselves to being asked to do a group with a teacher etc . . .

I agree. More than 45 minutes for circle time (for example) is not age appropriate. Kids should not be expected to sit for 45 minutes for their lunch period. I’m all for extended outside play and free play indoors if it fits in the schedule, but I’m not sure which preschool has longer than 45 minutes for different blocks on the regular

—former preschool teacher