Boomer outside counsel who insists on calling me incessantly, basically demanding I call him back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't answer. Immediately email back that you have no updates.

I agree, but I’d also say in the email that each time we speak it becomes a long (and thereby) expensive call and you are not interested in incurring such expense when it is unnecessary.

He may or may not change behavior, but it helps put him on notice.

cc his boss the second time it happens.

You’re an idiot. If she does that and the boss reads the email he’ll just bill for it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you say, you are the client. He serves you and he should fear you.

By letting him run up the bill, you are wasting your company's money and you are also wasting your own time.

He shouldn’t “fear” her FFS. That doesn’t a productive relationship make.

What she needs to do, besides insulting him as a “boomer“, is see if he is in fact, billing her for these calls. And if he is, she needs to simply grow a pair and tell him that he needs to limit the calls because they’re running the bill up. Every client does this all the time. It’s nothing. If she can’t handle this, she’s in the wrong job.

OP here. OF COURSE he is charging for these calls. And I have said to him over and over 'we are watching our outside counsel spend, I'll call you when we need something, right now we are at a standstill on X project..."

Then just tell him you’re happy to take the calls but he can’t bill for them. How long have you been managing outside counsel? You sound like you’re 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you say, you are the client. He serves you and he should fear you.

By letting him run up the bill, you are wasting your company's money and you are also wasting your own time.

He shouldn’t “fear” her FFS. That doesn’t a productive relationship make.

What she needs to do, besides insulting him as a “boomer“, is see if he is in fact, billing her for these calls. And if he is, she needs to simply grow a pair and tell him that he needs to limit the calls because they’re running the bill up. Every client does this all the time. It’s nothing. If she can’t handle this, she’s in the wrong job.

OP here. OF COURSE he is charging for these calls. And I have said to him over and over 'we are watching our outside counsel spend, I'll call you when we need something, right now we are at a standstill on X project..."

Then just tell him you’re happy to take the calls but he can’t bill for them. How long have you been managing outside counsel? You sound like you’re 12.

are you the one suggesting copying 'his boss'? hmmm.... lolz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea I’ve seen this before from you and think you’re the a$$hole. Calling him a boomer like that actually has anything to do with anything is no different than me referring to you as some young chick. It’s pejorative and unnecessary. He’s just clueless regardless of his age or gender. Most outside counsel know better than to act like him. So my advice is to stop being such a judgmental twit yourself. Start with that. Then ask your boss how to proceed.

ask my boss? now who is being the judgmental twit?

You said you had a “business lead.” Thats who I was referring to.

This is all on you. You’re a bad manager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Call him back at like 10pm each time. Less likely to reach him, and if you do he's likely to not want to talk then. Good chance of being able to leave a voicemail that you're returning his call to say there's no update yet, will let him know when there is.

That’s crazy. Why would i, as the client, make an unnecessary call at 10 pm rather than simply sending an email saying there is no update and we don’t need a billable call for me to express that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't answer. Immediately email back that you have no updates.

I agree, but I’d also say in the email that each time we speak it becomes a long (and thereby) expensive call and you are not interested in incurring such expense when it is unnecessary.

He may or may not change behavior, but it helps put him on notice.

cc his boss the second time it happens.

You’re an idiot. If she does that and the boss reads the email he’ll just bill for it too.

i find it odd that so many people are responding here who clearly know little to nothing about how these relationships work.. there is no 'boss' in these situations...

[Anonymous]

Why can’t you handle this, OP? This is basic communication and management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call him back at like 10pm each time. Less likely to reach him, and if you do he's likely to not want to talk then. Good chance of being able to leave a voicemail that you're returning his call to say there's no update yet, will let him know when there is.

That’s crazy. Why would i, as the client, make an unnecessary call at 10 pm rather than simply sending an email saying there is no update and we don’t need a billable call for me to express that?

i assume that was sort of a joke...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t you handle this, OP? This is basic communication and management.

are you angry that someone commented that you don't seem to know what you're talking about...?

[Anonymous]

You are rude. Find a new attorney or set limits with this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you say, you are the client. He serves you and he should fear you.

By letting him run up the bill, you are wasting your company's money and you are also wasting your own time.

He shouldn’t “fear” her FFS. That doesn’t a productive relationship make.

What she needs to do, besides insulting him as a “boomer“, is see if he is in fact, billing her for these calls. And if he is, she needs to simply grow a pair and tell him that he needs to limit the calls because they’re running the bill up. Every client does this all the time. It’s nothing. If she can’t handle this, she’s in the wrong job.

OP here. OF COURSE he is charging for these calls. And I have said to him over and over 'we are watching our outside counsel spend, I'll call you when we need something, right now we are at a standstill on X project..."

Then just tell him you’re happy to take the calls but he can’t bill for them. How long have you been managing outside counsel? You sound like you’re 12.

are you the one suggesting copying 'his boss'? hmmm.... lolz

No I’m not. I’m with Biglaw. I understand how these things work. Every client has their eyes on the bill and every client calls out inefficiencies. OP needs to act like the manager she claims to be and call this out. She’s being ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Refuse to pay for this when he bills for it, and email the managing partner of his firm and explain the situation. I also don’t understand why you answer his calls. Let them go to voicemail and email him in response saying that there are no updates and you’ll let him know if/when there are. And then do not pay for this time if he bills for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't answer. Immediately email back that you have no updates.

I agree, but I’d also say in the email that each time we speak it becomes a long (and thereby) expensive call and you are not interested in incurring such expense when it is unnecessary.

He may or may not change behavior, but it helps put him on notice.

cc his boss the second time it happens.

You’re an idiot. If she does that and the boss reads the email he’ll just bill for it too.

i find it odd that so many people are responding here who clearly know little to nothing about how these relationships work.. there is no 'boss' in these situations...

Oh, shut up. I meant that if she copies any other lawyer in the law firm, they’re going to Bill for reading it as well. I know it’s not the “boss“ per se.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.