Jeb Bush's org behind the new MSDE MS math minutes increase (which will likely cut MS electives)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

The issue is the period schedule and the fact that not all kids are taking math at the same time — I’m not sure how you make math longer without making every class longer, which reduces the total number of classes the kids can take. If you could magically make math 60 minutes for everyone but keep 6 other classes, I think most of us wouldn’t have a problem.

Correct. I don't see why so many posters don't understand this basic concept. Take my middle schooler's schedule for example. They have 8 periods of 44 minutes each with 4 minutes in between. One of the periods is advisory/lunch, so 7 periods of academic subjects (including PE/health). Kids might have math during any one of these periods so you'd have to increase every period to 60 minutes.

Also for the person who suggested eliminating advisory, that's like 15-20 minutes of the lunch period. Our school uses it so that there is a cushion between the end of one lunch and the start of another, because otherwise there would be chaos and kids only have 25 minutes to eat as it is. Even if you eliminated it, it's not enough time to add 16 minutes to all the periods.

I guess you could do something math-y during advisory? That's the only way I can think of getting to 60 minutes. But of course this goes back to the argument that there is no data showing that 16 more minutes of math per day is some sort of game-changer. And my kid likes to take a mental break during advisory and read a book. But they already do well in math and extra time won't make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

The issue is the period schedule and the fact that not all kids are taking math at the same time — I’m not sure how you make math longer without making every class longer, which reduces the total number of classes the kids can take. If you could magically make math 60 minutes for everyone but keep 6 other classes, I think most of us wouldn’t have a problem.

Correct. I don't see why so many posters don't understand this basic concept. Take my middle schooler's schedule for example. They have 8 periods of 44 minutes each with 4 minutes in between. One of the periods is advisory/lunch, so 7 periods of academic subjects (including PE/health). Kids might have math during any one of these periods so you'd have to increase every period to 60 minutes.

Also for the person who suggested eliminating advisory, that's like 15-20 minutes of the lunch period. Our school uses it so that there is a cushion between the end of one lunch and the start of another, because otherwise there would be chaos and kids only have 25 minutes to eat as it is. Even if you eliminated it, it's not enough time to add 16 minutes to all the periods.

I guess you could do something math-y during advisory? That's the only way I can think of getting to 60 minutes. But of course this goes back to the argument that there is no data showing that 16 more minutes of math per day is some sort of game-changer. And my kid likes to take a mental break during advisory and read a book. But they already do well in math and extra time won't make a difference.

This is a great point and question and what MSDE should have confirmed before putting it into policy that all LEAs in the state have to comply with.

In general, I believe in the general idea that kids probably need more math instruction than they've been getting, but what makes 60 minutes the magic number and what kind of an upswing do we anticipate getting for this investment of time and resources?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

Because to offer an hour a day of math in middle school, you would either need to have 6 60-minute periods a day (only 1 elective) or two math periods out of seven 45-ish minute periods a day (only 1 elective) and MCPS has (rightly in my view) decided not to do either.

[Anonymous]

More math minutes is great, but should come in the form of longer school day, more personalized adaptive homework practice, math into science ad social studies, and not getting in the way of advanced students who are doing their extra minutes at home.

[Anonymous]

It's super easy to add 15 minutes of instruction. Just tell kids to log on to IXL or Khan at home, or in adtecare at school, and do a problem set. It's better than what they'd get in class for 15minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The continued problem with using other countries as the basis for making changes, is that holistic changes are not made. For example, less standardize testing before HS. Or nationalized K-12 curriculum and teachers training. etc.

The #1 problem with USA "competitiveness" is that other countries don't bother to try to raise the floor of performance. They have cuts for school.

[Anonymous]

2027-2028 year is the same year that the quite famous new regional high school programs start

Yet MCPS hasn't even started talking about how to handle this new MS math minutes mandate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

Because to offer an hour a day of math in middle school, you would either need to have 6 60-minute periods a day (only 1 elective) or two math periods out of seven 45-ish minute periods a day (only 1 elective) and MCPS has (rightly in my view) decided not to do either.

There are only 6 hrs 45 minutes in a middle school day, and once you account for lunch and passing periods, it's down to about 6 hours. So that means the rest could be 6 one-hour periods or 7 43-ish minute periods.

If it is 6 one-hour periods, kids can only take one elective (zero if they are at a school that requires foreign language.) If it is seven 43 minute periods kids would need 7 periods to be spent on math per week to get to 300 minutes, so at most they could have 1 full elective plus a three-day-a-week elective (and that may be too complicated schedule-wise so it may just be 1 elective.)

[Anonymous]

If they would eliminate PE as a requirement I might be more okay with this. 😏

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2027-2028 year is the same year that the quite famous new regional high school programs start

Yet MCPS hasn't even started talking about how to handle this new MS math minutes mandate.

Is there going to be further guidance from the state? All I can think is the whole state must be facing the same issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2027-2028 year is the same year that the quite famous new regional high school programs start

Yet MCPS hasn't even started talking about how to handle this new MS math minutes mandate.

Is there going to be further guidance from the state? All I can think is the whole state must be facing the same issues.

The MSDE policy just says "Beginning SY 2027-2028, LEAs shall adhere to a minimum daily requirement of 60 cumulative instructional minutes or the equivalent of 300 weekly minutes for all math courses in
kindergarten through grade 8. Exemplar schedule models aligned to MTSS will be provided in
guidance."

But there are tons of changes in the math policy that MSDE says they'll provide guidance on, and they haven't even gotten to the ones they promised to provide by "fall 2025" yet, let alone ones like this that I haven't noticed any proposed timeline on yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's super easy to add 15 minutes of instruction. Just tell kids to log on to IXL or Khan at home, or in adtecare at school, and do a problem set. It's better than what they'd get in class for 15minutes.

Have you actually tried to make kids do IXL or Khan outside of school? This idea that kids can teach themselves with IXL or Khan seems like more of an educator's fantasy. I've been on the receiving end of this advice from many MCPS teachers, and inevitably when I engage in the power struggle with my kid, these things happen:

1. Kid is so resentful about having to do "extra work" that they are not engaged or receptive to the lesson
2. They can't figure out how the IXL concepts they're working on align with what they're learning in class
3. They can't figure out what IXL is trying to teach them, even with the video explainers, and get frustrated, melt down and give up

If our kids could teach themselves math with IXL or Khan, we'd have no need for schools or teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

Because to offer an hour a day of math in middle school, you would either need to have 6 60-minute periods a day (only 1 elective) or two math periods out of seven 45-ish minute periods a day (only 1 elective) and MCPS has (rightly in my view) decided not to do either.

There are only 6 hrs 45 minutes in a middle school day, and once you account for lunch and passing periods, it's down to about 6 hours. So that means the rest could be 6 one-hour periods or 7 43-ish minute periods.

If it is 6 one-hour periods, kids can only take one elective (zero if they are at a school that requires foreign language.) If it is seven 43 minute periods kids would need 7 periods to be spent on math per week to get to 300 minutes, so at most they could have 1 full elective plus a three-day-a-week elective (and that may be too complicated schedule-wise so it may just be 1 elective.)

I may not be understanding your math here, but remember that you can't really use the "excess" 45 minutes for lunch and passing periods under your scenario because kids have math during different periods, so all period lengths need to be the same for everyone. So you basically need 6 periods for the 5 MS core courses English, World Studies, Math, PE/Health, Science) and lunch. And if your kid is in a magnet program, they have a required 7th period (for humanities it's media). So that means someone in a magnet program doesn't have any foreign language or other elective at all.

Of course, the

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

Because to offer an hour a day of math in middle school, you would either need to have 6 60-minute periods a day (only 1 elective) or two math periods out of seven 45-ish minute periods a day (only 1 elective) and MCPS has (rightly in my view) decided not to do either.

There are only 6 hrs 45 minutes in a middle school day, and once you account for lunch and passing periods, it's down to about 6 hours. So that means the rest could be 6 one-hour periods or 7 43-ish minute periods.

If it is 6 one-hour periods, kids can only take one elective (zero if they are at a school that requires foreign language.) If it is seven 43 minute periods kids would need 7 periods to be spent on math per week to get to 300 minutes, so at most they could have 1 full elective plus a three-day-a-week elective (and that may be too complicated schedule-wise so it may just be 1 elective.)

I may not be understanding your math here, but remember that you can't really use the "excess" 45 minutes for lunch and passing periods under your scenario because kids have math during different periods, so all period lengths need to be the same for everyone. So you basically need 6 periods for the 5 MS core courses English, World Studies, Math, PE/Health, Science) and lunch. And if your kid is in a magnet program, they have a required 7th period (for humanities it's media). So that means someone in a magnet program doesn't have any foreign language or other elective at all.

Of course, the

Play math videos on the wall in the cafeteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait what? "will be requiring 300 minutes of math a week [an hour a day] in grades K-8 starting in 2027, which is way more than middle schools offer currently"

Why aren't middle schools offering an hour a day of math? Students in middle school are there from 8:15-3:00. That is 6 hours and 45 minutes. Why can't math be an hour a day?

What also would be better would be to have actual math textbooks with WORKED EXAMPLES, direct instruction and workbooks like every other country that is highly ranked in math.

Because to offer an hour a day of math in middle school, you would either need to have 6 60-minute periods a day (only 1 elective) or two math periods out of seven 45-ish minute periods a day (only 1 elective) and MCPS has (rightly in my view) decided not to do either.

There are only 6 hrs 45 minutes in a middle school day, and once you account for lunch and passing periods, it's down to about 6 hours. So that means the rest could be 6 one-hour periods or 7 43-ish minute periods.

If it is 6 one-hour periods, kids can only take one elective (zero if they are at a school that requires foreign language.) If it is seven 43 minute periods kids would need 7 periods to be spent on math per week to get to 300 minutes, so at most they could have 1 full elective plus a three-day-a-week elective (and that may be too complicated schedule-wise so it may just be 1 elective.)

I may not be understanding your math here, but remember that you can't really use the "excess" 45 minutes for lunch and passing periods under your scenario because kids have math during different periods, so all period lengths need to be the same for everyone. So you basically need 6 periods for the 5 MS core courses English, World Studies, Math, PE/Health, Science) and lunch. And if your kid is in a magnet program, they have a required 7th period (for humanities it's media). So that means someone in a magnet program doesn't have any foreign language or other elective at all.

Of course, the

Yes, that's exactly my point.

And I think they either may need to cut the MS magnet programs and immersion entirely with this change, or else very few students will be interested in them since there will likely be no free elective spaces for those kids at all.