Jeb Bush's org behind the new MSDE MS math minutes increase (which will likely cut MS electives)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there should just be lobbying (to who - the state legislature) to change the policy to count homework. Practice is really important in math; 1 hour class per day is not better than 45 min + 15 min out-of-class practice.

MSDE and the state Board of Education set this policy and could amend it on their own. Or state legislators could force them to change it. Doesn't hurt to lobby both.

People can sign up to give public comments at MSDE meetings, next one is late January,:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there should just be lobbying (to who - the state legislature) to change the policy to count homework. Practice is really important in math; 1 hour class per day is not better than 45 min + 15 min out-of-class practice.

MSDE and the state Board of Education set this policy and could amend it on their own. Or state legislators could force them to change it. Doesn't hurt to lobby both.

People can sign up to give public comments at MSDE meetings, next one is late January,:

Whoops, link here: https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/stateboard/pages/publiccomment.aspx

[Anonymous]

The ExcelinEd assertion that countries with better math results like Finland, Japan, and Singapore are places with 300+ minutes of math per week seems like absolute bunk.

Finland in particular is a country notorious for having kids spending *less* time in school yet having great results. And sure enough, I looked it up and it appears that the math instructional time requirements for grades 3-9 in Finland get an average of about 170 minutes per week of math, nowhere near the 300 minutes ExcelinEd claims. (Their system is a little weird because schools have some flexibility to choose to do more in one year and less in another, but if they choose to split it evenly amongst the grade levels they'd have those amounts, and if not it still averages out to those amounts.)

Also apparently in Japan kids get about 131 hours a year (about 225 minutes a week) of math in 6th grade (which is still elementary school-- 2nd through 5th graders get the same amount as well), 105 hours in 7th grade (about 180 minutes a week), and 79 hours in 8th grade (about 135 minutes a week), according to this page on the same darn TIMSS website ExcelInEd links: https://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2015/encyclopedia/countries/japan/instruction-for-mathematics-and-science-in-primary-and-lower-secondary-grades/ (Class periods are 45 minutes and they say most schools are 35 weeks a year, so multiply the class periods per year per grade by 45 minutes and then divide by 30 weeks.)

(I couldn't find much on Singapore. Maybe they do spend a ton of time on math. But even so, one country does not make a trend, especially when other high-scoring countries make a trend.)

[Anonymous]

You people whine and complain for years on end about how mcps doesnt focus on academics and when they finally do something about it, youre crying in your laps because a republican name is attached to it.
Absolutely mental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If math homework counts as instruction (i.e., if you include instructions with the problem sets), then 15 minutes of math homework a day is doable. My kids are doing at least that amount now (5th and 7th grades). I don't remember when they started having math homework though, maybe 3rd grade? So doing this with the early grades will be the issue, but I think the elementary schedule may allow for more flexibility in adding that time during the day, than sorting out MS periods.

I guess I need to read the actual policy and see how they define math instruction.

Nope, none of these "creative ideas" about counting math homework/IXL or putting math in electives or doing math during advisory periods will count. The language explicitly says that all math courses K-8 need to be scheduled for 300 minutes a week:

"Beginning SY 2027-2028, LEAs shall adhere to a minimum daily requirement of 60 cumulative instructional minutes or the equivalent of 300 weekly minutes for all math courses in kindergarten through grade 8. Exemplar schedule models aligned to MTSS will be provided in
guidance."

Instructional minutes could be doing IXL with a teacher present. Heck, that alerady happens in actual math class.

This does not mean that a math class has to be 60 minutes.

Even if that is true, it can't just be at random times like advisory when kids in different math classes are mixed together. The policy says that "all math courses" must have 300 instructional minutes a week. So if a kid is in Algebra 1, there needs to be 300 minutes a week of Algebra 1.

You are being way too literal. MCPS will just say that advisory is now math support, and that will count. They are not going to have 60 minute math classes, guaranteed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people whine and complain for years on end about how mcps doesnt focus on academics and when they finally do something about it, youre crying in your laps because a republican name is attached to it.
Absolutely mental.

What's "mental" (are you 7?) is assuming that the objections have anything to do with Jeb Bush. I've read the policy; most of it is very good. However, the 60-minute per day requirement is not workable for MS schedules and is also not based on any data suggesting that the extra time results in better outcomes. If you've read the preceding pages you'd get that, but I guess you've been too busy drinking out of your "liberal tears" mug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there should just be lobbying (to who - the state legislature) to change the policy to count homework. Practice is really important in math; 1 hour class per day is not better than 45 min + 15 min out-of-class practice.

MSDE and the state Board of Education set this policy and could amend it on their own. Or state legislators could force them to change it. Doesn't hurt to lobby both.

Are there any efforts to actually do any of this that folks know of? Great to do it individually but coordinated is better.

I would also add lobbying MCPS, Board of Ed, and even County Council to the list-- they do not control this but their opposition is something the state would pay attention to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If math homework counts as instruction (i.e., if you include instructions with the problem sets), then 15 minutes of math homework a day is doable. My kids are doing at least that amount now (5th and 7th grades). I don't remember when they started having math homework though, maybe 3rd grade? So doing this with the early grades will be the issue, but I think the elementary schedule may allow for more flexibility in adding that time during the day, than sorting out MS periods.

I guess I need to read the actual policy and see how they define math instruction.

I think the elementary schools are already largely conforming.

If I'm reading my 5th grader's schedule on parentvue correctly, he has 28 minutes of math. I think the periods vary depending on whether it's a "specials" day (ie, on the 2 days without music/art/PE, the class periods may be longer). That said, math is never a full 60 minutes per day.

The schedules on ParentVue for ES have nothing to do with actual schedules in elementary school (it's set up to reflect MS and HS "periods", for ES they just assign 28 minute "periods" at semi-random times for each subject but it doesn't mean they are that length or at that time.). I just ignore that section entirely. It can't be made to reflect ES schedules accurately so I think most schools don't bother to try.

Don't you get a weekly schedule at open house or back to school night at the beginning of the year? In our school, it has always been 60+ minutes of math a day (usually 65.) I think that is a central office mandate?

[Anonymous]

So I looked this up and there was no mention of the 60/300 minutes in the original version of the policy presented in January 2025 which they had public hearings on, collected feedback on, etc. They only added it in version 2 which was released in March 2025 before a 3/25/25 vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I looked this up and there was no mention of the 60/300 minutes in the original version of the policy presented in January 2025 which they had public hearings on, collected feedback on, etc. They only added it in version 2 which was released in March 2025 before a 3/25/25 vote.

Not great.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone heard anything about this from your middle school yet, or asked? My kid will be in middle school when this starts but isn't now, so I don't have anyone to ask, but am curious what is being thought about and said at the middle school level right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ExcelinEd assertion that countries with better math results like Finland, Japan, and Singapore are places with 300+ minutes of math per week seems like absolute bunk.

Finland in particular is a country notorious for having kids spending *less* time in school yet having great results. And sure enough, I looked it up and it appears that the math instructional time requirements for grades 3-9 in Finland get an average of about 170 minutes per week of math, nowhere near the 300 minutes ExcelinEd claims. (Their system is a little weird because schools have some flexibility to choose to do more in one year and less in another, but if they choose to split it evenly amongst the grade levels they'd have those amounts, and if not it still averages out to those amounts.)

Also apparently in Japan kids get about 131 hours a year (about 225 minutes a week) of math in 6th grade (which is still elementary school-- 2nd through 5th graders get the same amount as well), 105 hours in 7th grade (about 180 minutes a week), and 79 hours in 8th grade (about 135 minutes a week), according to this page on the same darn TIMSS website ExcelInEd links: https://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2015/encyclopedia/countries/japan/instruction-for-mathematics-and-science-in-primary-and-lower-secondary-grades/ (Class periods are 45 minutes and they say most schools are 35 weeks a year, so multiply the class periods per year per grade by 45 minutes and then divide by 30 weeks.)

(I couldn't find much on Singapore. Maybe they do spend a ton of time on math. But even so, one country does not make a trend, especially when other high-scoring countries make a trend.)

Finfland is trending down. Bad example. https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Finland/pisa_math_scores/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people whine and complain for years on end about how mcps doesnt focus on academics and when they finally do something about it, youre crying in your laps because a republican name is attached to it.
Absolutely mental.

Wong Republicans want Christian Nationalist The Heritage Foundation and TPUSA Curriculim in public schools, which is 100% against the Constitution of the US.

Since when is one state run by Republicans have education that is in the top of this country??? Education in red states is in disarray, always has been.
The state of OKlahoma is a perfect example of how Republicans never make education better but when Dems were in charge all of a sudden, education gets better. Arizona with it's stupid voucher program has showed Republicans use vouchers to grift not for education.
Screw off, you anti-American cult of stupids member.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there should just be lobbying (to who - the state legislature) to change the policy to count homework. Practice is really important in math; 1 hour class per day is not better than 45 min + 15 min out-of-class practice.

MSDE and the state Board of Education set this policy and could amend it on their own. Or state legislators could force them to change it. Doesn't hurt to lobby both.

People can sign up to give public comments at MSDE meetings, next one is late January,:

You can also submit testimony on this at MCPS Board of Ed meetings. Signup for the one on 1/8 just opened and 2026 state legislative lobbying is on the agenda, so it's good timing to ask MCPS to take a position asking the state to amend this rule and save middle school foreign language, music, art, and other electives: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScH5gYFeOPOonGBr2DZdaMrYVd2OE1HuTYpgpXtzbv3-sXnJw/viewform

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people whine and complain for years on end about how mcps doesnt focus on academics and when they finally do something about it, youre crying in your laps because a republican name is attached to it.
Absolutely mental.

Wong Republicans want Christian Nationalist The Heritage Foundation and TPUSA Curriculim in public schools, which is 100% against the Constitution of the US.

Since when is one state run by Republicans have education that is in the top of this country??? Education in red states is in disarray, always has been.
The state of OKlahoma is a perfect example of how Republicans never make education better but when Dems were in charge all of a sudden, education gets better. Arizona with it's stupid voucher program has showed Republicans use vouchers to grift not for education.
Screw off, you anti-American cult of stupids member.

Mississippi. They figured out kids need phonics and mandated their teachers be taught his to teach reading well. Then they mandated all districts must use effective reading curriculum, and retain third graders who can’t read in order to give them intensive intervention. They were the second worst state in reading 12 years ago and now are doing better than average.