What’s the different between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

There are a million miles between the two.

The short answer is this: upper class don't think all that much about money unless they are fundraising or something, and umc think about little else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle class earn a nice income $250k+ from working.

Upper class have typical annual investment returns of $300k+ and they likely work additionally.

Im in the second category, even though we have vacationed in Hawaii (no condo) and our cleaning lady comes only biweekly.

Is 300k in investments and an office job really upper class nowadays?

No. Lol. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a million miles between the two.

The short answer is this: upper class don't think all that much about money unless they are fundraising or something, and umc think about little else.

Well…that’s not really true…there will often be one family member who cares about about growing the money, and the rest who trust that one won’t screw it up. Perhaps they are managing staff or in charge of the family office direct.

[Anonymous]

Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I also love this since I haven't read "Class" by Paul Fussell in some time. “You reveal a great deal about your class,” writes Paul Fussell, “by the amount of annoyance or fury you feel when the subject is brought up.” People of the working class, he explains, generally don’t mind thinking or talking about it, since they know there is little they can do to change their station. And nor, really, do they want to, the upper classes being perceived, for all their money, as weightless and effete, and the middle classes as slaves of the marketplace, cogs in the bureaucracy, and generally “loathsome in their anxious gentility.”

Members of the upper class don’t mind broaching the topic of class either, says Fussell, since they know themselves to be on top of the system, securely above the fray.

No, it is the hard-working, hard-consuming middle class that feels the annoyance. It is the middle class that does not accept its fate and function, that believes in social mobility, that envies the style and security of the networked rich on the one hand, and the claims to authenticity of those who earn their keep by the sweat of their brows or by facing real danger, on the other. It is the middle class that is looked down upon by both sides in return, and the middle class that grumbles or walks away, denying class a role or a reality in American society even as it studies, with great care, the rungs of the ladder.

[Anonymous]

Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.

[Anonymous]

This thread really brought out the blue book / social register slops. Thank god they’re a dying breed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a million miles between the two.

The short answer is this: upper class don't think all that much about money unless they are fundraising or something, and umc think about little else.

Well…that’s not really true…there will often be one family member who cares about about growing the money, and the rest who trust that one won’t screw it up. Perhaps they are managing staff or in charge of the family office direct.

Of course you grow the money. But the home office has investment bankers hired to handle this. Yes, sometimes a member of the family manages this, or works there. But generally speaking no one is thinking about earning money. No one is thinking about showing off money. The wealthiest person I know drives a mustang convertible and has a relatively modest home. He travels on the home office jet, but that's because he almost always travels with his golden retriever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle class earn a nice income $250k+ from working.

Upper class have typical annual investment returns of $300k+ and they likely work additionally.

Im in the second category, even though we have vacationed in Hawaii (no condo) and our cleaning lady comes only biweekly.

Is 300k in investments and an office job really upper class nowadays?

The PP mentioned $300k in investment returns not $300 in investments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

Most of this sounds straight out of chatgpt, with all the attendant lack of understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.

Someone dug out their old copy of The Preppy Handbook, and updated the names of the UMC children before posting, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.[/quot.

Washboard gravel driveway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle has at least some income through a w-2 and actually needs to work to maintain their lifestyle/savings.

Upper class can fully sustain themselves with investments.

Plenty of FIRE people “sustain themselves with investments.” But they are living on $100k a year in a LCOL area. That doesn’t make them upper class.

Agreed! Huge difference

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

If you can't maintain your lifestyle without working, you are not UC.