What’s the different between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

LOL. I’m pp and reading the thread. I guess I’m not the only one thinking the math ain’t mathin’.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

What is your net worth?

Around $15m, enough to retire but not maintain our lifestyle. We have 3 minor children.

What's your lifestyle and yearly spend? At $15m you could spend >500k/yr forever.

This is from a few pages back, but also about $15M net worth (no debt, no mortgage) and minor kids. We don’t feel like we’re in a place to simply not work either.

What on earth are you talking about? What are you spending all of your money on?

Gold toilets. Birkins. A mommy makeover for me.

In all seriousness - about a third is in our house and the rest is liquid. Our goal is to generally let that nest egg continue to build until we’re ready to retire in say 15 years. Our salaries (about $550k) cover our daily costs - tuition, food, clothes, vacation, etc. We go into that nest egg for big expenses like renovations or property taxes.

It’s a lot easier to say you’ll stop working and start spending down your nest egg than it is to really do it. Plus, it’s not like our kids will never have to work, so we want them to see us getting up everyday to be good role models.

We’re also 40 and 41.

$5M house? On $550K? With $15M saved at 40/41. What?? None of that makes sense. Saying that as someone w over double your HHI in a house that is worth 1/5 what yours is.

NP. Over $30mm NW and a $1mm house? Sounds like you're depriving yourself for some reason ($1 million doesn't get much in a HC or VHC locale), but as that prior poster noted, everyone has different priorities.

DP. She said her HHI was double, not her net worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such insightful views from our brilliant members at DCUM.

LOL so striving ...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

What is your net worth?

Around $15m, enough to retire but not maintain our lifestyle. We have 3 minor children.

What's your lifestyle and yearly spend? At $15m you could spend >500k/yr forever.

This is from a few pages back, but also about $15M net worth (no debt, no mortgage) and minor kids. We don’t feel like we’re in a place to simply not work either.

What on earth are you talking about? What are you spending all of your money on?

Gold toilets. Birkins. A mommy makeover for me.

In all seriousness - about a third is in our house and the rest is liquid. Our goal is to generally let that nest egg continue to build until we’re ready to retire in say 15 years. Our salaries (about $550k) cover our daily costs - tuition, food, clothes, vacation, etc. We go into that nest egg for big expenses like renovations or property taxes.

It’s a lot easier to say you’ll stop working and start spending down your nest egg than it is to really do it. Plus, it’s not like our kids will never have to work, so we want them to see us getting up everyday to be good role models.

We’re also 40 and 41.

You live in a $5m house on a $550k? And then saved up $10M while paying private school?! Mmkay.

They said they had windfalls that brought the ~$15m, not from income. Not crazy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

What is your net worth?

Around $15m, enough to retire but not maintain our lifestyle. We have 3 minor children.

What's your lifestyle and yearly spend? At $15m you could spend >500k/yr forever.

This is from a few pages back, but also about $15M net worth (no debt, no mortgage) and minor kids. We don’t feel like we’re in a place to simply not work either.

What on earth are you talking about? What are you spending all of your money on?

Gold toilets. Birkins. A mommy makeover for me.

In all seriousness - about a third is in our house and the rest is liquid. Our goal is to generally let that nest egg continue to build until we’re ready to retire in say 15 years. Our salaries (about $550k) cover our daily costs - tuition, food, clothes, vacation, etc. We go into that nest egg for big expenses like renovations or property taxes.

It’s a lot easier to say you’ll stop working and start spending down your nest egg than it is to really do it. Plus, it’s not like our kids will never have to work, so we want them to see us getting up everyday to be good role models.

We’re also 40 and 41.

$5M house? On $550K? With $15M saved at 40/41. What?? None of that makes sense. Saying that as someone w over double your HHI in a house that is worth 1/5 what yours is.

NP. Over $30mm NW and a $1mm house? Sounds like you're depriving yourself for some reason ($1 million doesn't get much in a HC or VHC locale), but as that prior poster noted, everyone has different priorities.

DP. She said her HHI was double, not her net worth.

Shoot you're right. Totally missed that. My bad.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

What is your net worth?

Around $15m, enough to retire but not maintain our lifestyle. We have 3 minor children.

What's your lifestyle and yearly spend? At $15m you could spend >500k/yr forever.

This is from a few pages back, but also about $15M net worth (no debt, no mortgage) and minor kids. We don’t feel like we’re in a place to simply not work either.

What on earth are you talking about? What are you spending all of your money on?

Gold toilets. Birkins. A mommy makeover for me.

In all seriousness - about a third is in our house and the rest is liquid. Our goal is to generally let that nest egg continue to build until we’re ready to retire in say 15 years. Our salaries (about $550k) cover our daily costs - tuition, food, clothes, vacation, etc. We go into that nest egg for big expenses like renovations or property taxes.

It’s a lot easier to say you’ll stop working and start spending down your nest egg than it is to really do it. Plus, it’s not like our kids will never have to work, so we want them to see us getting up everyday to be good role models.

We’re also 40 and 41.

You live in a $5m house on a $550k? And then saved up $10M while paying private school?! Mmkay.

They said they had windfalls that brought the ~$15m, not from income. Not crazy.

Still not common around the DC area at that age unless it’s all inheritances but I know we get a lot of SF / NYC folks on this thread too and $15M by 40/41 would be a “That’s it?” scenario for many ironically. Might explain how casual PP is about it.

[Anonymous]

I can honestly say this thread is bloated with some of the bottom of the barrel dumbest drivel I’ve ever read. My god.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

Most of this sounds straight out of chatgpt, with all the attendant lack of understanding.

Oh please enlighten us on what is misunderstood. This was pulled from notes from Paul Fussell's book, "Class" along with personal anecdotes and recognizing it's a wonderful, albeit dated guide to class distinctions in America. Or perhaps I struck a nerve because it hit too close to home? If it did, then it's probably because you're decidedly middle class and insecure.

Lady white people are about to be a minority in America. The days of the illustrious blue bloods are dated. Dying breed, to be frank. Too many generations now and too much dilution.

Nice that you think that but you are wrong. There will always be UC WASP culture. There is already UC Hispanic culture. The future will mean that there will also be UC American Asian, Persian, Nigerian, etc. People bring their culture with them and adapt it.

No Black UC culture??

[Anonymous]

I'm upper middle class and I can't afford to go to Hawaii...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Upper middle has at least some income through a w-2 and actually needs to work to maintain their lifestyle/savings.

Upper class can fully sustain themselves with investments.

Plenty of FIRE people “sustain themselves with investments.” But they are living on $100k a year in a LCOL area. That doesn’t make them upper class.

But many upper class people are cheap as hell.

The gap between rich and poor persists because rich people keep doing the things that made them rich in the first place. And poor people keep doing the things that made them poor in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Neither asks (or answers) silly questions like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle has at least some income through a w-2 and actually needs to work to maintain their lifestyle/savings.

Upper class can fully sustain themselves with investments.

Yes, this is it.
If I have to work, I am not rich.

Now that number may vary. I need a lot of money to live in NoVa but would need far less in Akron OH.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Upper middle class earn a nice income $250k+ from working.

Upper class have typical annual investment returns of $300k+ and they likely work additionally.

Im in the second category, even though we have vacationed in Hawaii (no condo) and our cleaning lady comes only biweekly.

Is 300k in investments and an office job really upper class nowadays?

They’re drawing $300K returns annually so something like $7.5M principal min

Umm no. I have 4m principal generating 750k this yr. Depends on how you are invested obviously.[/quote 18.75% return on your $4m, that is nice. How invested?

[Anonymous]

UMC MUST to work for a good life. UC can have the same, or better life with ZERO work - live off investments.

[Anonymous]

upper class people are independently wealthy.

Upper middle class people are not. There perceived wealth is a W2 income they tend to rely on.