What’s the different between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.

[Anonymous]

This thread really brought out the blue book / social register slops. Thank god they’re a dying breed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a million miles between the two.

The short answer is this: upper class don't think all that much about money unless they are fundraising or something, and umc think about little else.

Well…that’s not really true…there will often be one family member who cares about about growing the money, and the rest who trust that one won’t screw it up. Perhaps they are managing staff or in charge of the family office direct.

Of course you grow the money. But the home office has investment bankers hired to handle this. Yes, sometimes a member of the family manages this, or works there. But generally speaking no one is thinking about earning money. No one is thinking about showing off money. The wealthiest person I know drives a mustang convertible and has a relatively modest home. He travels on the home office jet, but that's because he almost always travels with his golden retriever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle class earn a nice income $250k+ from working.

Upper class have typical annual investment returns of $300k+ and they likely work additionally.

Im in the second category, even though we have vacationed in Hawaii (no condo) and our cleaning lady comes only biweekly.

Is 300k in investments and an office job really upper class nowadays?

The PP mentioned $300k in investment returns not $300 in investments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

Most of this sounds straight out of chatgpt, with all the attendant lack of understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.

Someone dug out their old copy of The Preppy Handbook, and updated the names of the UMC children before posting, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.[/quot.

Washboard gravel driveway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle has at least some income through a w-2 and actually needs to work to maintain their lifestyle/savings.

Upper class can fully sustain themselves with investments.

Plenty of FIRE people “sustain themselves with investments.” But they are living on $100k a year in a LCOL area. That doesn’t make them upper class.

Agreed! Huge difference

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

If you can't maintain your lifestyle without working, you are not UC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

What is your net worth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle has at least some income through a w-2 and actually needs to work to maintain their lifestyle/savings.

Upper class can fully sustain themselves with investments.

Plenty of FIRE people “sustain themselves with investments.” But they are living on $100k a year in a LCOL area. That doesn’t make them upper class.

But many upper class people are cheap as hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

Most of this sounds straight out of chatgpt, with all the attendant lack of understanding.

Oh please enlighten us on what is misunderstood. This was pulled from notes from Paul Fussell's book, "Class" along with personal anecdotes and recognizing it's a wonderful, albeit dated guide to class distinctions in America. Or perhaps I struck a nerve because it hit too close to home? If it did, then it's probably because you're decidedly middle class and insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

Most of this sounds straight out of chatgpt, with all the attendant lack of understanding.

Oh please enlighten us on what is misunderstood. This was pulled from notes from Paul Fussell's book, "Class" along with personal anecdotes and recognizing it's a wonderful, albeit dated guide to class distinctions in America. Or perhaps I struck a nerve because it hit too close to home? If it did, then it's probably because you're decidedly middle class and insecure.

Lady white people are about to be a minority in America. The days of the illustrious blue bloods are dated. Dying breed, to be frank. Too many generations now and too much dilution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

We are borderline of UMC and UC. $3m HHI, few properties, can technically retire but cannot maintain current lifestyle without working.

Some people may say we are definitely UC. I consider ourselves UMC.

What is your net worth?

Around $15m, enough to retire but not maintain our lifestyle. We have 3 minor children.