What’s the different between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people on DCUM are most likely UMC

Historically maybe. I think most people these days are LMC and liars. Most resort to insults and name calling within the firt page. Also they use a$$ as a suffix to a descriptive term e.g., “grown a$$”. UMC people, probably even MC people would never do this. It’s very telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL. I’m pp and reading the thread. I guess I’m not the only one thinking the math ain’t mathin’.

+1
And the liars are a-lying.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Upper Class: This is the realm of traditional blue-blooded elites who, although they lack the almost mythical wealth of their higher counterparts, still wield considerable influence. Think of families like the Kennedys and Roosevelts — families who, according to Fussell, are obviously extremely elite but too “public” to be placed in the higher “top out of sight” tier.

Upper Middle Class: This class represents the backbone of educated professionals who, while not possessing the lineage or heritage wealth of the ‘Upper Class’, nonetheless hold significant sway within society. If the ‘Upper Class’ is defined by heritage and wealth, then the ‘Upper Middle Class’ is defined by education. Here, you’ll find a plethora of Ivy League degrees and advanced qualifications. Universities are seen not merely as gateways to professional success but as indispensable institutions for cultural enlightenment and social bonding. As for professions, expect a broad spectrum. They’re your accomplished lawyers, seasoned doctors, university professors, and successful small business owners. Their careers offer more than economic comfort — they command societal respect and intellectual satisfaction. Culturally, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ champions meritocracy and the pursuit of personal growth. They place a high premium on cultural literacy, aesthetic refinement, and intellectual curiosity. In essence, the ‘Upper Middle Class’ values are rooted in achievement through dedication and education rather than inherited status. They are the embodiment of the American dream, where one can rise through the ranks via hard work and intellectual acumen.

Note class is what you're born into, not the money you have. A blue collar plumber who wins the lottery or happens to sell his business for $20 million is still High Proletarian. Now, his kids might level up. That is, no matter how much sheen you put on it, you will find your class markers betraying you even if you become successful and wealthy. For instance, I know some very wealthy and successful people who grew up poor and their very nice and tasteful house is packed with food. Like ridiculous and wasteful amounts of food -- because it's a sign of comfort and of the trauma due to food insecurity that they experienced as children. That's a sure sign that they were born lower middle class or lower.

Most of this sounds straight out of chatgpt, with all the attendant lack of understanding.

Oh please enlighten us on what is misunderstood. This was pulled from notes from Paul Fussell's book, "Class" along with personal anecdotes and recognizing it's a wonderful, albeit dated guide to class distinctions in America. Or perhaps I struck a nerve because it hit too close to home? If it did, then it's probably because you're decidedly middle class and insecure.

Lady white people are about to be a minority in America. The days of the illustrious blue bloods are dated. Dying breed, to be frank. Too many generations now and too much dilution.

Nice that you think that but you are wrong. There will always be UC WASP culture. There is already UC Hispanic culture. The future will mean that there will also be UC American Asian, Persian, Nigerian, etc. People bring their culture with them and adapt it.

No Black UC culture??

Sure. Nigerians are black. If you mean UC black American culture - most UC black people have assimilated into WASP culture. For example, my daughter is taking a nice UC black American boy to cotillion. They will likely sit with her friends, who come from other UC families (WASP, Persian, Indian, etc) - they know each other from their private school. And before you say - yes I know the “W” in WASP is white, but I’m referring to the culture. The same with the Obamas. Barack and Michelle will never be more than UMC but their daughters are undisputedly UC and have all the hallmarks of WASP culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle class earn a nice income $250k+ from working.

Upper class have typical annual investment returns of $300k+ and they likely work additionally.

Im in the second category, even though we have vacationed in Hawaii (no condo) and our cleaning lady comes only biweekly.

Is 300k in investments and an office job really upper class nowadays?

You didn’t even understand the bolded, but no, 300k in investments is not upper class nowadays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on these responses you can be upper class while earning $100k in investments, sitting on a not for profit board and living extremely modestly. But upper middle while earning $1 million.

I distinguish between the wealthy and rich - rich is making $1M or $5M or whatever but you need to work to maintain your lifestyle. Wealthy is never working a day again and you can even increase your lifestyle via assets that work for you. Obviously the goal is to graduate from rich > wealthy.

Multiply that by negative 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, lots of people are conflating class with money, which itself is a very middle class way of looking at things.

UMC has a home theater; UC has a (live) theater subscription.

UMC has a power boat; UC has a sailboat.

UMC is terribly concerned with meeting the right people; UC already knows them. (Whether they like them is a whole 'nother matter.)

UMC has a freshly paved and sealed driveway. UC has washboarded gravel.

UMC children are William (never Will or Billy) and Charlotte (never Lottie or Char). UC children are Bungy, Lala, Chip/Trey/Quinn, and Roo.

UMC fly on A plane. UC fly on THE plane.

UMC kids learn golf from the club pro. UC kids learn from their parents and grandparents.

UMC horse-crazy daughters buy $1200 boots for horse shows. UC daughters go fox hunting in their mom's old tweeds.

I’m lost are you digging on Kensington Royals?

[Anonymous]

I think the biggest thing about being UC vs UMC is the time that you have as an UC person and the amount of people you know.

My family has been business owners for 200+ years and thus know many families and has connections everywhere. Life is so much simpler when you can ask your family friend who's a council member or someone who works for your family office a question. Then it's all boarding schools in the north east and house parties at second homes or staying with friends or inviting friends to a vacation house which allows it. You have a few UMC people that may join you on a trip but they'll never be UC because their family didn't come from generational wealth.

As for time, you can just travel and do what you want with no concept really of timing. I married someone who's UMC and they, and their family is always stressed about PTO, insurance, bonus, errands on the weekends etc. When you have a plane you can just get up and go. For example you have a job and may hide your wealth but I didn't care about PTO and would just take leave as I wanted since I wasn't too concerned about being promoted or let go because I had more coming in from a trust that an UMC salary.

Also, partner was shocked about how deep connections are amongst different races when UC. It's a lot more diverse than you think at the top with quite a bit of UC black families (which surprisingly are dominated by families from the Caribbean).

[Anonymous]

I don't actually know how to classify myself or my kids anymore.

It's hard when some of the wealthiest people in my country apparently do not have what I'd ever have considered "class" before

Like when you're a guest, you bring a gift for the host ... and now when you're a host you're somehow expected to give your guest a gift

that seems to be the way things are playing out these days

Vaguely reminds me of a book I once read about Princess Margaret and how when she was still alive she would just do annual tours where she'd be the housesguest and people were supposed to be so honored to have her that they'd cater to her with endless vodka and gin and other gifts.

[Anonymous]

The way people talk about class on here, the definition of upperclass excludes anyone who is self-made and applies only to people born with a silver spoon, which begs the question, why do you even care about classism? Who wants friends like that?

[Anonymous]

We all long to be Brits with a bloodline class system but the best we can muster is multigenerational inherited wealth and private schools to reinforce manners learned at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We all long to be Brits with a bloodline class system but the best we can muster is multigenerational inherited wealth and private schools to reinforce manners learned at home.

And if you go back far enough most old generational wealth in the US started via illicit / mortally bankrupt businesses like bootleggers or slave trading that then spurred an “above board” 2nd gen that branched out and legitimized the 1st gen

Kennedy’s great example of this.

[Anonymous]

What if you work in management for tech and make 200k+ annually but you will also inherit 12 million down the line.

UC or UMC?

[Anonymous]

Behind every great fortune is a great crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if you work in management for tech and make 200k+ annually but you will also inherit 12 million down the line.

UC or UMC?

How were you raised? Where does the inheritance come from?

If daddy was Larry Ellison you are still UMC even if you get $12billion and his Japanese palace and art.

If daddy was a Cabot you are UC even if you only inherit $300k.

[Anonymous]

Upper middle class can live the lifestyle of a typical American of the 1960s era. Upper class are rich.