APS Elementary Rankings

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

Why aren’t all APS schools “traditional” and doing this????

I think they do, but there’s a much higher level of transience at neighborhood schools. We’ve had the same kids disappear for a while and then reenroll later. We have kids showing up mid year speaking zero English in upper grades. This doesn’t happen at ATS because you can’t just show up and enroll whenever. If you leave you’re gone.

And once you leave another kid shows up in your place. There is a long waiting list and there is movement during the year because just like kids leave other schools they leave ATS. ATS parents leave to private school, get jobs out of state, move, etc just like parents of other schools.

My daughter has someone who just started this week. Last year both my girls had kids leave during the year and new kids replace them. One kid joined end of April.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

Why aren’t all APS schools “traditional” and doing this????

I think they do, but there’s a much higher level of transience at neighborhood schools. We’ve had the same kids disappear for an while and then reenroll later. We have kids showing up mid year speaking zero English in upper grades. This doesn’t happen at ATS because you can’t just show up and enroll whenever. If you leave you’re gone.

No they don’t. And we have kids at ATS showing up and leaving mid year as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is still would you want your kid to go to school with the kids of the kind of parents who think their kids are going to get a better education at ATS than any other Arlington school.

That’s great. You stay in your school and we will stay in ours. Not sure why you are obsessed with dissing ATS parents and their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a teacher perspective, at the HS level, you don't see a difference between ATS kids and neighborhood schools for the vast majority of students.

I don't believe you know where all of your students went to elementary school

Not only does she not know where all her kids went to elementary school but she does not know what kids received tutoring in certain subjects, what kids are enrolled in Russian Math etc. This actually would be a useful thing to follow. I would love to know the following things about let’s say the top 15% of kids in Arlington high schools: (1) where they went to elementary school (2) where they went to middle school (3) what after school academic programs they were enrolled in (4) whether they were tutored and if so, in what subjects and (5) whether their parents gave them extra work at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

Chicken and egg. It can be more rigorous because kid are better behaved and engaged because they have supportive parents looking for a good education.

It’s both. The curriculum is more rigorous. And they offer a lot of extra support. For example my friends kids came from another APS school and were behind in reading and math. They attended math and reading “labs” after school until they were at grade level. They also have a longer literacy block and do more writing.

ATS students simply spend more time practicing what they learn. They have math and English homework every day of the week except for Fridays. They have weekly summaries so parents know exactly how their kids did that week and what they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is still would you want your kid to go to school with the kids of the kind of parents who think their kids are going to get a better education at ATS than any other Arlington school.

Yes, I wanted my kid to go to school with the kids of parents who care and are doing their best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a teacher perspective, at the HS level, you don't see a difference between ATS kids and neighborhood schools for the vast majority of students.

I’m a public HS teacher in Arlington and I disagree. There’s a big difference between my students when it comes to their education background. If it didn’t you wouldn’t have people paying for private, entering lottery schools, paying for tutoring, ect.

In middle, many teachers say they can tell which kids came from ATS. Mine has all As and is getting extra content in some classes like math and science.

I teach HS at a public APS school and I find it interesting the ATS students I have are better rounded and have performed at a higher level. I don’t have many of them but it’s something I noticed over the years. My kids did not go to ATS and did just fine, so it’s not the only good elementary school. There is something to be said about having it as part of your foundation if you ask me. My 3 kids went to S. Arlington schools. 🤷‍♀️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a teacher perspective, at the HS level, you don't see a difference between ATS kids and neighborhood schools for the vast majority of students.

I don't believe you know where all of your students went to elementary school

Not the same teacher as above. I don’t know where all my APS students went but I know where a lot of them went. Especially if they started in APS and are still there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a teacher perspective, at the HS level, you don't see a difference between ATS kids and neighborhood schools for the vast majority of students.

I don't believe you know where all of your students went to elementary school

Not only does she not know where all her kids went to elementary school but she does not know what kids received tutoring in certain subjects, what kids are enrolled in Russian Math etc. This actually would be a useful thing to follow. I would love to know the following things about let’s say the top 15% of kids in Arlington high schools: (1) where they went to elementary school (2) where they went to middle school (3) what after school academic programs they were enrolled in (4) whether they were tutored and if so, in what subjects and (5) whether their parents gave them extra work at home.

I don’t know about tutoring unless a family tells me but most students if they are from APS I can see info as far as where they went to elementary and middle school. Not all of them do I know but a lot of them. I don’t have many former ATS students but the ones I do have IMO have performed high in my classes. And no I am not an ATS parent. My kiddos went to S Arlington schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion is really difficult for some kids. Every year we have multiple kids who transfer out or immersion because they are behind. It’s hard to tell when they are young. I’ve seen a decent amount of Campbell kids transfer out too. I’m not sure why but if I had to guess I think parents of high energy kids who may struggle a bit in a classroom setting are drawn to their model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

[Anonymous]

Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

Right there with you. Arlington parents only care about sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)