APS Elementary Rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

If they are in Key then admin simply doesn’t believe in teaching content based knowledge rich curriculum like CKLA. Admin believes that a Lucy Calkins type curriculum is better (though the have embraced phonics). To understand why a knowledge rich curriculum is important take a look at the many articles by Natalie Wexler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

If they are in Key then admin simply doesn’t believe in teaching content based knowledge rich curriculum like CKLA. Admin believes that a Lucy Calkins type curriculum is better (though the have embraced phonics). To understand why a knowledge rich curriculum is important take a look at the many articles by Natalie Wexler.

? They used to use Lucy Calkins, but the last couple of years, my kid was taught using the CKLA curriculum at Key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

If they are in Key then admin simply doesn’t believe in teaching content based knowledge rich curriculum like CKLA. Admin believes that a Lucy Calkins type curriculum is better (though the have embraced phonics). To understand why a knowledge rich curriculum is important take a look at the many articles by Natalie Wexler.

? They used to use Lucy Calkins, but the last couple of years, my kid was taught using the CKLA curriculum at Key.

Yep. They have to. But Key is one of the schools that hate CKLA and don’t believe in its methodology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

If they are in Key then admin simply doesn’t believe in teaching content based knowledge rich curriculum like CKLA. Admin believes that a Lucy Calkins type curriculum is better (though the have embraced phonics). To understand why a knowledge rich curriculum is important take a look at the many articles by Natalie Wexler.

? They used to use Lucy Calkins, but the last couple of years, my kid was taught using the CKLA curriculum at Key.

Yep. They have to. But Key is one of the schools that hate CKLA and don’t believe in its methodology.

Yes, Key held onto LC at least two years longer than our neighborhood elementary, but they are now using CKLA. I think it took the new principal coming in to drive the switch.

Hopefully as Key teachers get to know CKLA they'll learn to appreciate it. I know there was concern that it would be hard to fit into the curriculum with both English and Spanish and lots of ESL students. But it seems to be working now from what I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

If they are in Key then admin simply doesn’t believe in teaching content based knowledge rich curriculum like CKLA. Admin believes that a Lucy Calkins type curriculum is better (though the have embraced phonics). To understand why a knowledge rich curriculum is important take a look at the many articles by Natalie Wexler.

? They used to use Lucy Calkins, but the last couple of years, my kid was taught using the CKLA curriculum at Key.

Yep. They have to. But Key is one of the schools that hate CKLA and don’t believe in its methodology.

Yes, Key held onto LC at least two years longer than our neighborhood elementary, but they are now using CKLA. I think it took the new principal coming in to drive the switch.

Hopefully as Key teachers get to know CKLA they'll learn to appreciate it. I know there was concern that it would be hard to fit into the curriculum with both English and Spanish and lots of ESL students. But it seems to be working now from what I can tell.

PP here. I did not know this. That’s good to hear! And I’m glad they were able to figure out how to make it work for immersion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

Would like to know where these stats are posted or provided at least the local example you provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

Would like to know where these stats are posted or provided at least the local example you provided.

https://wakefield.apsva.us/spanish-immersion/

“ 2014-2015 & 2015-2016, 2016-2017 100% Spanish Immersion Students passed the Biology SOL test”

I think overall the pass rate is around 85%, but I’m having trouble finding the number right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)

Well, if they are struggling in math, they get pulled in math, or in literacy. When they are pulled, they go to a math coach, or an ESL teacher, or a SpEd teacher, which is how they get meaningful 1:1 support. Happened for my kid. Happy to answer questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)

A lot of the extra tutoring to get students at grade level happens after school. Other times it’s during what ATS calls “starblock” where teachers work one on one with students based on their individual needs. ATS teachers have a lot of support in the classroom. They use their specialists a lot and there are many of them. The specialists help everyone and according to my kids there is at least one “extra teacher” that comes in the class during the day. So yes the classes are large but the specialists are utilized extremely well. They have specialists that other schools don’t have and they will now be getting more specialists after being designated a title 1 school. As for the literacy block, you tell me. Why can’t other schools fit in a longer literacy block? How are they using their time?

So ATS has extra staff that other schools don’t have, and they’ve had them prior to becoming Title 1?!

They employ more teachers and reading specialists than the other elementary schools in APS?

And the struggling learners are expected to stay after school for tutoring?

yes, yes no. If you look at the budget, every school has a 2-page spread. You can clearly see that some schools have extra math and literacy spots while other schools use those FTEs in other ways. My struggling learner was tutored during the school day and now in high school is excelling in accelerated classes. We hired a private tutor during middle for one subject for two years. I really credit ATS for the turnaround though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How long is Star Block? And do high achievers ever get the teacher’s attention, or is it reserved for the low performers? (And what do high achievers do during this time? Lexia? 😂)

I had a kid go to ATS in K reading and doing basic math. The gifted resource teacher pulled them and others in their situation, into a small group during instruction in that class (or the math coach). During star block, I think they read what they wanted to socialized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is still would you want your kid to go to school with the kids of the kind of parents who think their kids are going to get a better education at ATS than any other Arlington school.

I’ll pick going to school with kids of motivated immigrant families every time.

But you see those who can afford it are going to pick the richest neighborhood with the socioeconomic cohort they desire. ATS is an escape hatch for south Arlington schools unfortunately and does not act as such for the good north Arlington ones.

I escaped a horror of a N. ARl principal. Happy to name names but I'll out myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long is Star Block? And do high achievers ever get the teacher’s attention, or is it reserved for the low performers? (And what do high achievers do during this time? Lexia? 😂)

Why are you mocking something that helps students? It’s a period long - not sure how long that is. 45 mins? The gifted talented academic couch works with teachers (including specialists) to give high achieving students (not just those deemed gifted) material. Most of the time there is a specialist in the classroom during “starblock” that will work with the students who are doing well. Basically several specialists cycle around the school during the day to work with students. My eldest who is gifted works with a specialist in the classroom every day as does my middle child who is not gifted but is at grade level.

This is the bitter government cheese poster who can’t afford private for her own kids.

I'm the gov. cheese poster and I'm not bitter. I can easily afford private and thank God every day for APS choice schools b/c I don't have to pay for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

The very definition of home work is to repeat what is leaned ar home. See prior up thread. Tons of research showing that, for kids like mine, elementary home work is a waste of time. It’s ok that different tools works for different kids.

And to be clear, look at the breakdown of ATS kids. You aren’t drawing at all from the neighborhoods I am referencing. Again, this is not to say that ATS is bad or a worse education. It’s an explanation for why ATS isn’t county wide. We don’t want it. And you don’t want what my ES offers.

The calculation is vastly different in poorer South Arlington ES. All can be true.

A few questions because your post doesn’t make much sense and sounds really elitist.

1. What do you mean by “kids like mine” when you say they don’t need repetitive homework?
2. What don’t people want that your ES has?

Also, repetition is actually needed to learn. It’s a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

Would like to know where these stats are posted or provided at least the local example you provided.

https://wakefield.apsva.us/spanish-immersion/

“ 2014-2015 & 2015-2016, 2016-2017 100% Spanish Immersion Students passed the Biology SOL test”

I think overall the pass rate is around 85%, but I’m having trouble finding the number right now.

There’s a lot that has changed since 2017 let alone from 2014 or earlier. I’m not sure I would assume this is still the case today.

[Anonymous]

Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.