APS Elementary Rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

You just proved the PP’s point.

What point is proven? I am a NP. I feel the way this person does. I looked at ATS. I didn’t want homework for my kids in elementary school and I wanted a neighborhood school with neighborhood friends. Is this a criticism of ATS? ATS seems great just wasn’t what I was looking for. Many people are not looking for ATS model. I know teachers at ATS who didn’t sent their own kids there. Point is, it’s good to have different models for different types of families looking for different things.

We are an “academic” minded family for what that is worth. I now have kids in high school doing very well and academics are the top priority.

Again, amazing ATS exists. If the county could support 2 of them and that many people want it, consider another school for ATS.

Just an FYI, teachers can’t just send their kids to ATS. They go through the lottery like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do ATS parents feel the need to assert their kids are at a superior school? You never hear a parent from say, Nottingham, worry about Jamestown. Arlington parents are involved with their kids at all schools. Schools are all great. Dr. Pesi at Yorktown used to say it’s just hard for some parents to admit that all the schools here are good.

ATS is consistently ranked as the best public elementary school in Virginia and is one of the best public elementary schools in the nation. The only other APS school that has received a blue ribbon award is Williamsburg. Yet people like you keep insisting that these rankings mean nothing and that the only reason ATS is ranked so highly is because of overachieving parents. So ATS parents respond by explaining no it’s not just the parents but also the fact that the school does things differently. The critics then respond to these explanations by doubling down. So ATS parents then double down by explaining clearly what these differences are and comparing ATS to other schools. Simple.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

Right there with you. Arlington parents only care about sports.

Yep! It is so true. “How many sports are your kid in”, “ohhhh they are only in one and it’s rec” it’s really a shame. Still wishing we were at ATS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)

A lot of the extra tutoring to get students at grade level happens after school. Other times it’s during what ATS calls “starblock” where teachers work one on one with students based on their individual needs. ATS teachers have a lot of support in the classroom. They use their specialists a lot and there are many of them. The specialists help everyone and according to my kids there is at least one “extra teacher” that comes in the class during the day. So yes the classes are large but the specialists are utilized extremely well. They have specialists that other schools don’t have and they will now be getting more specialists after being designated a title 1 school. As for the literacy block, you tell me. Why can’t other schools fit in a longer literacy block? How are they using their time?

So ATS has extra staff that other schools don’t have, and they’ve had them prior to becoming Title 1?!

They employ more teachers and reading specialists than the other elementary schools in APS?

And the struggling learners are expected to stay after school for tutoring?

I don’t know why they have those staff members. Maybe each school gets to pick what their specialists and in other schools the specialists don’t come and support the teachers in the classroom while teaching . That’s a question you can ask APS. But for example we have a testing coordinator but that testing coordinator works with students and teachers in the classroom.

I doubt any school can force students to stay after school and I dont know how it works exactly because my kids never stayed afterschool. But I know every parent whose kid stayed after school to catch up on their reading and math skills was really happy and grateful. I imagine that it’s something ATS suggests to the parents and the parents are more than happy to take them up on the opportunity. They work to catch up students during class time as well by utilizing the specialists. Starblock and lunch time is used for non-academic stuff as well. For example when my daughter moved to ATS in first grade she was extremely shy and had no friends. During starblock a specialist worked with her and two other new kids and they were specifically put together so that they can have an opportunity to get to know each other. We had to sign something to give the school permission to do this. She also ate lunch with a small group of students and the counselor who had the students play games with each other so that they could get to know each other. They make sure all the kids are socially and emotionally adjusted as well.

So the secret sauce to ATS is increased staffing? Funny that these additional positions don’t show up in Syphax reports.

Do ATS teachers get paid to stay after school to tutor kids? Or is it unpaid labor?

Principals have some flexibility in how they use their FTE allotment and how they provide services. Every APS school where I have worked or sent my kid (ATS included) has had an intervention period (star time or whatever their mascot was) as well as some form of after school intervention available to struggling students. They also have lunch bunches with counselors for new or struggling students. The thing about ATS is that their needs are less severe than many schools and that is in part to parental involvement and expectations. The design of option schools means that students don't start school with zero introduction to US culture and English language. I've had students who have been in the US for less than a week thrown in to regular classes. That's hard to overcome!

Doesn’t explain why ATS is still better than every north Arlington school despite 37% of students being English learners and 36% being economically disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

The very definition of home work is to repeat what is leaned ar home. See prior up thread. Tons of research showing that, for kids like mine, elementary home work is a waste of time. It’s ok that different tools works for different kids.

And to be clear, look at the breakdown of ATS kids. You aren’t drawing at all from the neighborhoods I am referencing. Again, this is not to say that ATS is bad or a worse education. It’s an explanation for why ATS isn’t county wide. We don’t want it. And you don’t want what my ES offers.

The calculation is vastly different in poorer South Arlington ES. All can be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)

A lot of the extra tutoring to get students at grade level happens after school. Other times it’s during what ATS calls “starblock” where teachers work one on one with students based on their individual needs. ATS teachers have a lot of support in the classroom. They use their specialists a lot and there are many of them. The specialists help everyone and according to my kids there is at least one “extra teacher” that comes in the class during the day. So yes the classes are large but the specialists are utilized extremely well. They have specialists that other schools don’t have and they will now be getting more specialists after being designated a title 1 school. As for the literacy block, you tell me. Why can’t other schools fit in a longer literacy block? How are they using their time?

So ATS has extra staff that other schools don’t have, and they’ve had them prior to becoming Title 1?!

They employ more teachers and reading specialists than the other elementary schools in APS?

And the struggling learners are expected to stay after school for tutoring?

I don’t know why they have those staff members. Maybe each school gets to pick what their specialists and in other schools the specialists don’t come and support the teachers in the classroom while teaching . That’s a question you can ask APS. But for example we have a testing coordinator but that testing coordinator works with students and teachers in the classroom.

I doubt any school can force students to stay after school and I dont know how it works exactly because my kids never stayed afterschool. But I know every parent whose kid stayed after school to catch up on their reading and math skills was really happy and grateful. I imagine that it’s something ATS suggests to the parents and the parents are more than happy to take them up on the opportunity. They work to catch up students during class time as well by utilizing the specialists. Starblock and lunch time is used for non-academic stuff as well. For example when my daughter moved to ATS in first grade she was extremely shy and had no friends. During starblock a specialist worked with her and two other new kids and they were specifically put together so that they can have an opportunity to get to know each other. We had to sign something to give the school permission to do this. She also ate lunch with a small group of students and the counselor who had the students play games with each other so that they could get to know each other. They make sure all the kids are socially and emotionally adjusted as well.

So the secret sauce to ATS is increased staffing? Funny that these additional positions don’t show up in Syphax reports.

Do ATS teachers get paid to stay after school to tutor kids? Or is it unpaid labor?

Principals have some flexibility in how they use their FTE allotment and how they provide services. Every APS school where I have worked or sent my kid (ATS included) has had an intervention period (star time or whatever their mascot was) as well as some form of after school intervention available to struggling students. They also have lunch bunches with counselors for new or struggling students. The thing about ATS is that their needs are less severe than many schools and that is in part to parental involvement and expectations. The design of option schools means that students don't start school with zero introduction to US culture and English language. I've had students who have been in the US for less than a week thrown in to regular classes. That's hard to overcome!

Doesn’t explain why ATS is still better than every north Arlington school despite 37% of students being English learners and 36% being economically disadvantaged.

I think it does. It’s the family engagement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

You just proved the PP’s point.

What point is proven? I am a NP. I feel the way this person does. I looked at ATS. I didn’t want homework for my kids in elementary school and I wanted a neighborhood school with neighborhood friends. Is this a criticism of ATS? ATS seems great just wasn’t what I was looking for. Many people are not looking for ATS model. I know teachers at ATS who didn’t sent their own kids there. Point is, it’s good to have different models for different types of families looking for different things.

We are an “academic” minded family for what that is worth. I now have kids in high school doing very well and academics are the top priority.

Again, amazing ATS exists. If the county could support 2 of them and that many people want it, consider another school for ATS.

You proved the point that more APS schools don’t try to replicate the ATS model because most parents don’t want it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

The very definition of home work is to repeat what is leaned ar home. See prior up thread. Tons of research showing that, for kids like mine, elementary home work is a waste of time. It’s ok that different tools works for different kids.

And to be clear, look at the breakdown of ATS kids. You aren’t drawing at all from the neighborhoods I am referencing. Again, this is not to say that ATS is bad or a worse education. It’s an explanation for why ATS isn’t county wide. We don’t want it. And you don’t want what my ES offers.

The calculation is vastly different in poorer South Arlington ES. All can be true.

DP. Please cite 1 refereed article that says that homework is a waste of time for kids like yours. I have access to a good university library that can get anything in the refereed literature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

The very definition of home work is to repeat what is leaned ar home. See prior up thread. Tons of research showing that, for kids like mine, elementary home work is a waste of time. It’s ok that different tools works for different kids.

And to be clear, look at the breakdown of ATS kids. You aren’t drawing at all from the neighborhoods I am referencing. Again, this is not to say that ATS is bad or a worse education. It’s an explanation for why ATS isn’t county wide. We don’t want it. And you don’t want what my ES offers.

The calculation is vastly different in poorer South Arlington ES. All can be true.

DP. Please cite 1 refereed article that says that homework is a waste of time for kids like yours. I have access to a good university library that can get anything in the refereed literature.

https://assess.ucr.edu/sites/default/files/2019-02/cooperrobinsonpatall_2006.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)

A lot of the extra tutoring to get students at grade level happens after school. Other times it’s during what ATS calls “starblock” where teachers work one on one with students based on their individual needs. ATS teachers have a lot of support in the classroom. They use their specialists a lot and there are many of them. The specialists help everyone and according to my kids there is at least one “extra teacher” that comes in the class during the day. So yes the classes are large but the specialists are utilized extremely well. They have specialists that other schools don’t have and they will now be getting more specialists after being designated a title 1 school. As for the literacy block, you tell me. Why can’t other schools fit in a longer literacy block? How are they using their time?

So ATS has extra staff that other schools don’t have, and they’ve had them prior to becoming Title 1?!

They employ more teachers and reading specialists than the other elementary schools in APS?

And the struggling learners are expected to stay after school for tutoring?

I don’t know why they have those staff members. Maybe each school gets to pick what their specialists and in other schools the specialists don’t come and support the teachers in the classroom while teaching . That’s a question you can ask APS. But for example we have a testing coordinator but that testing coordinator works with students and teachers in the classroom.

I doubt any school can force students to stay after school and I dont know how it works exactly because my kids never stayed afterschool. But I know every parent whose kid stayed after school to catch up on their reading and math skills was really happy and grateful. I imagine that it’s something ATS suggests to the parents and the parents are more than happy to take them up on the opportunity. They work to catch up students during class time as well by utilizing the specialists. Starblock and lunch time is used for non-academic stuff as well. For example when my daughter moved to ATS in first grade she was extremely shy and had no friends. During starblock a specialist worked with her and two other new kids and they were specifically put together so that they can have an opportunity to get to know each other. We had to sign something to give the school permission to do this. She also ate lunch with a small group of students and the counselor who had the students play games with each other so that they could get to know each other. They make sure all the kids are socially and emotionally adjusted as well.

So the secret sauce to ATS is increased staffing? Funny that these additional positions don’t show up in Syphax reports.

Do ATS teachers get paid to stay after school to tutor kids? Or is it unpaid labor?

Principals have some flexibility in how they use their FTE allotment and how they provide services. Every APS school where I have worked or sent my kid (ATS included) has had an intervention period (star time or whatever their mascot was) as well as some form of after school intervention available to struggling students. They also have lunch bunches with counselors for new or struggling students. The thing about ATS is that their needs are less severe than many schools and that is in part to parental involvement and expectations. The design of option schools means that students don't start school with zero introduction to US culture and English language. I've had students who have been in the US for less than a week thrown in to regular classes. That's hard to overcome!

Doesn’t explain why ATS is still better than every north Arlington school despite 37% of students being English learners and 36% being economically disadvantaged.

I think it does. It’s the family engagement

Specific metric you are referencing please. Better in what sense?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

The very definition of home work is to repeat what is leaned ar home. See prior up thread. Tons of research showing that, for kids like mine, elementary home work is a waste of time. It’s ok that different tools works for different kids.

And to be clear, look at the breakdown of ATS kids. You aren’t drawing at all from the neighborhoods I am referencing. Again, this is not to say that ATS is bad or a worse education. It’s an explanation for why ATS isn’t county wide. We don’t want it. And you don’t want what my ES offers.

The calculation is vastly different in poorer South Arlington ES. All can be true.

DP. Please cite 1 refereed article that says that homework is a waste of time for kids like yours. I have access to a good university library that can get anything in the refereed literature.

https://assess.ucr.edu/sites/default/files/2019-02/cooperrobinsonpatall_2006.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Here we go again. ATS diversity comes from the VPI program. There are VPI programs in several APS schools and all students get into through a lottery. Yet the ATS VPI students do better than their counterparts in other schools. Also other option schools have a self selecting population but they aren’t doing as well as ATS. ATS is simply a better school.

What other schools have self selected student populations on academic rigor ? That’s literally ATS selling point, teaching stuff like it used to be taught.

It’s the combination of VPI and EVERY STUDENT there has engaged parents who want their kid there.

Yes but you are acting like there is nothing different about the school itself. My daughter’s friend was in Discovery. They moved her to ATS. Her mom told me that ATS is just much more rigorous. That’s the story you hear from parents who come from other neighborhood schools. The curriculum is more rigorous. Now whether this means anything in the long run is something else. Because even if the curriculum is more rigorous in elementary school it may not make a different in the long run.

One clear difference is the number of minutes spent on literacy in the lower grades and how they remediate kids who aren't making top scores, even without and IEP, 504, or whatever. They just do it, including 1:1 tutoring.

If they spend more time on literacy, what are they cutting back on? The school day is the same length as other elementary schools in APS, no?

And the kids who are pulled for tutoring — what do they get pulled from? I can’t imagine it’s recess.

ATS also has weekly assemblies, right? This, again, eats into instructional time.

Maybe it’s more about what’s happening at HOME than most people acknowledge. ATS has big class sizes which makes any meaningful amount of 1-on-1 support during the school day impossible. Of course kids with involved parents are going to outperform their peers whose parents can’t be bothered to work with their child at home.

(And I agree with PP, at the MS and HS levels, I don’t see any difference. The former ATS kids in our neighborhood vary greatly in how well they’re doing later on. Some are bright. Others… not so much.)

A lot of the extra tutoring to get students at grade level happens after school. Other times it’s during what ATS calls “starblock” where teachers work one on one with students based on their individual needs. ATS teachers have a lot of support in the classroom. They use their specialists a lot and there are many of them. The specialists help everyone and according to my kids there is at least one “extra teacher” that comes in the class during the day. So yes the classes are large but the specialists are utilized extremely well. They have specialists that other schools don’t have and they will now be getting more specialists after being designated a title 1 school. As for the literacy block, you tell me. Why can’t other schools fit in a longer literacy block? How are they using their time?

So ATS has extra staff that other schools don’t have, and they’ve had them prior to becoming Title 1?!

They employ more teachers and reading specialists than the other elementary schools in APS?

And the struggling learners are expected to stay after school for tutoring?

I don’t know why they have those staff members. Maybe each school gets to pick what their specialists and in other schools the specialists don’t come and support the teachers in the classroom while teaching . That’s a question you can ask APS. But for example we have a testing coordinator but that testing coordinator works with students and teachers in the classroom.

I doubt any school can force students to stay after school and I dont know how it works exactly because my kids never stayed afterschool. But I know every parent whose kid stayed after school to catch up on their reading and math skills was really happy and grateful. I imagine that it’s something ATS suggests to the parents and the parents are more than happy to take them up on the opportunity. They work to catch up students during class time as well by utilizing the specialists. Starblock and lunch time is used for non-academic stuff as well. For example when my daughter moved to ATS in first grade she was extremely shy and had no friends. During starblock a specialist worked with her and two other new kids and they were specifically put together so that they can have an opportunity to get to know each other. We had to sign something to give the school permission to do this. She also ate lunch with a small group of students and the counselor who had the students play games with each other so that they could get to know each other. They make sure all the kids are socially and emotionally adjusted as well.

So the secret sauce to ATS is increased staffing? Funny that these additional positions don’t show up in Syphax reports.

Do ATS teachers get paid to stay after school to tutor kids? Or is it unpaid labor?

Principals have some flexibility in how they use their FTE allotment and how they provide services. Every APS school where I have worked or sent my kid (ATS included) has had an intervention period (star time or whatever their mascot was) as well as some form of after school intervention available to struggling students. They also have lunch bunches with counselors for new or struggling students. The thing about ATS is that their needs are less severe than many schools and that is in part to parental involvement and expectations. The design of option schools means that students don't start school with zero introduction to US culture and English language. I've had students who have been in the US for less than a week thrown in to regular classes. That's hard to overcome!

Doesn’t explain why ATS is still better than every north Arlington school despite 37% of students being English learners and 36% being economically disadvantaged.

I think it does. It’s the family engagement

Got it. The majority of APS parents are disengaged with the exception of ATS parents. Good to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.