Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think the Army has an angle here. I’m just not yet sure what it is. They aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Saw this post on reddit from an active duty Army instructor pilot (self identified) and thought it was interesting. This is story in many industries -- talk to people in medicine and education about how much of their time is spent fulfilling administrative duties that have nothing to do with their chosen profession and how they feel it impacts their ability to actually do that part of their job.

"I am an active duty United States Army instructor pilot, CW3, in a Combat Aviation Brigade. The Army, not the crew, is most likely entirely responsible for the crash in Washington DC that killed 64 civilians, plus the crew of the H60 and it will happen again.

For decades, Army pilots have complained about our poor training and being pulled in several directions to do every other job but flying, all while our friends died for lack of training and experience.

That pilot flying near your United flight? He has flown fewer than 80 hours in the last year because he doesn’t even make his minimums. He rarely studied because he is too busy working on things entirely unrelated to flying for 50 hours per work week.

When we were only killing each other via our mistakes, no one really cared, including us. Army leadership is fine with air crews dying and attempts to solve the issue by asking more out of us (longer obligations) while taking away pay and education benefits.

You better care now, after our poor skill has resulted in a downed airliner and 64 deaths. This will not be the last time. We will cause more accidents and kill more innocent people.

For those careerist CW4, CW5, and O6+ about to angrily type out that I am a Russian or Chinese troll, you’re a fool. I want you to be mad about the state of Army aviation and call for it to be fixed. We are an amateur flying force. We are incompetent and dangerous, we know it, and we will not fix it on our own. We need to be better to fight and win our nation’s wars, not kill our own citizens.

If you don’t want your loved ones to be in the next plane we take down, you need to contact your Congressman and demand better training and more focus on flying for our pilots. Lives depend on it and you can be sure the Army isn’t going to fix itself."

Here's the thread if you are interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters/comments/1iduoki/army_aviation_leadership_killed_67_people_today/?share_id=UtX-uuclhZ5splF2O_Ugg&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

Just admit you don't have any good reason to defend holding the name back.

I’ve got a damned good reason.
If it was my kid, I’d want the name withheld to keep it away from you crazy conspiracy theorist MFs.

That's not how any of this works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the Army has an angle here. I’m just not yet sure what it is. They aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Yup.

Right? They are suddenly putting the family's wishes above all else? GTFO. Who believes that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the Army has an angle here. I’m just not yet sure what it is. They aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Yup.

Maybe giving the family and Army time to scrub information about the pilot (IG, Facebook…). As well as allowing the family to possibly relocate to a more secure environment.

[Anonymous]

I think there is a reason (protocol, tradition on deferring to families for some time period like until after the funeral , opaque army reasons, etc) because otherwise trump would have mean tweeted her name and home address by now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience.

Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

In my experience in school and working 25 years, it’s the poor performers who cut processes and corners. Sometimes they get caught, many times not.

The processes already accounted for that.

The helo rammed the jet after multiple failsafes.

you’re thinking too small. There are many more processes surrounding this - flight paths, pilot training and review guidelines, air traffic control, etc etc.

We know.

And guess what?!

Despite all that thought, planning, work, comms, technology, teamwork, decades of it working out, processes and systems at the military, ATC, American Airlines and DCA…. ….on game day if someone at the flight controls goes rogue for whatever reason, it doesn’t matter.

Going from 200 ft altitude to 350 ft whilst turning right at the same speed will hit the damn jet that’s 5 seconds from landing.

No matter what systems and processes there were. Or do we want hacked AI flying Blackhawk’s now?

Sure, we could go with your assessment, or we could wait for the real one. I’ll wait.

NP

I agree this was not a systems and process issue, many things were attempting to block and tackle this collision.

This is massive pilot error or an emergency/ mechanical/ health issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the Army has an angle here. I’m just not yet sure what it is. They aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Yup.

Maybe giving the family and Army time to scrub information about the pilot (IG, Facebook…). As well as allowing the family to possibly relocate to a more secure environment.

Internet scrubbing was my first thought too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Withholding her name will only work for so long.

It’s already not working.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.

We know the names of all the men involved. Why is she being treated differently?

Are feminists ok with this?

She’s not. Their families shared their names.

Wrong. The Army has released their names and specifically says they are with holding hers, due to family request

There is more to this story.

With all of the speculation surrounding this, I would withhold my family members name as well. I’m sure a lot of people want to point fingers and blame and with the rhetoric coming down from the top I doubt there will be any big consequence for anyone that wanted to retaliate against the family to make a point.

It is not your prerogative to release or not. It is a matter of public record who caused a tragedy.

The public record is the NTSB report. Just FYI, names are not subject to disclosure (they are non-FOIABLE) in an NTSB report. Try again and maybe you'll grow beyon basic uninformed moron. Though I doubt it.

Way too many people know who this person was. It's only a matter of time before everyone finds out.

Agree. I think it will be leaked within a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.

We know the names of all the men involved. Why is she being treated differently?

Are feminists ok with this?

She’s not. Their families shared their names.

Wrong. The Army has released their names and specifically says they are with holding hers, due to family request

There is more to this story.

With all of the speculation surrounding this, I would withhold my family members name as well. I’m sure a lot of people want to point fingers and blame and with the rhetoric coming down from the top I doubt there will be any big consequence for anyone that wanted to retaliate against the family to make a point.

It is not your prerogative to release or not. It is a matter of public record who caused a tragedy.

The public record is the NTSB report. Just FYI, names are not subject to disclosure (they are non-FOIABLE) in an NTSB report. Try again and maybe you'll grow beyon basic uninformed moron. Though I doubt it.

Way too many people know who this person was. It's only a matter of time before everyone finds out.

Agree. I think it will be leaked within a week.

Probably TMZ will have it first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think the Army has an angle here. I’m just not yet sure what it is. They aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Agree.

It’s clearly in the govt and military’s best interest NOT to release her name.

Heck even Musk and Trump haven’t tweeted it.

[Anonymous]

It will be out by tomorrow. No way it can be kept secret for much longer. I am honestly shocked Trump hasn't blurted it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saw this post on reddit from an active duty Army instructor pilot (self identified) and thought it was interesting. This is story in many industries -- talk to people in medicine and education about how much of their time is spent fulfilling administrative duties that have nothing to do with their chosen profession and how they feel it impacts their ability to actually do that part of their job.

"I am an active duty United States Army instructor pilot, CW3, in a Combat Aviation Brigade. The Army, not the crew, is most likely entirely responsible for the crash in Washington DC that killed 64 civilians, plus the crew of the H60 and it will happen again.

For decades, Army pilots have complained about our poor training and being pulled in several directions to do every other job but flying, all while our friends died for lack of training and experience.

That pilot flying near your United flight? He has flown fewer than 80 hours in the last year because he doesn’t even make his minimums. He rarely studied because he is too busy working on things entirely unrelated to flying for 50 hours per work week.

When we were only killing each other via our mistakes, no one really cared, including us. Army leadership is fine with air crews dying and attempts to solve the issue by asking more out of us (longer obligations) while taking away pay and education benefits.

You better care now, after our poor skill has resulted in a downed airliner and 64 deaths. This will not be the last time. We will cause more accidents and kill more innocent people.

For those careerist CW4, CW5, and O6+ about to angrily type out that I am a Russian or Chinese troll, you’re a fool. I want you to be mad about the state of Army aviation and call for it to be fixed. We are an amateur flying force. We are incompetent and dangerous, we know it, and we will not fix it on our own. We need to be better to fight and win our nation’s wars, not kill our own citizens.

If you don’t want your loved ones to be in the next plane we take down, you need to contact your Congressman and demand better training and more focus on flying for our pilots. Lives depend on it and you can be sure the Army isn’t going to fix itself."

Here's the thread if you are interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters/comments/1iduoki/army_aviation_leadership_killed_67_people_today/?share_id=UtX-uuclhZ5splF2O_Ugg&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

Wow. Good for him for speaking out.

[Anonymous]

Maybe leave aviation to the Air Force. It's in their name