Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They couldn’t see these planes lights?

Do you know for a fact the pilot was alive at impact?

You don’t. Let the people do their investigation.

You think you know all. But you don’t.

Given the responses to ATC, yes!

Based on the recordings that have been released, at least 1 male was alive and was the only person responding to ATC.

[Anonymous]

So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

Is it, though? There was a policy (helicopter flying under 200ft) which would have kept everyone safe. Helicopter disregarded the policy. If I cause an accident by driving down the wrong way of a highway, is it a process and policy problem?

For all people are talking about traffic control being understaffed, Trump firing the FAA head, and Musk's letter stressing everyone out, no one else made a fatal mistake. The one obvious policy improvement I can see is not flying helicopters near any airport - I think that change makes sense and I hope is permanent.

Other than that, given what we have learned about visibility at night, how night goggles change depth perception, how the others see no more than the pilot, how no one looks at the radar. how easily a helo can go up 150feet without even noticing... I don't understand how that are allowed to fly at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

A voice recorder would be nice too. News says that not all helicopters have one, but I'm willing to bet military ones do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a male who said that they had the plane in sight. I’m the PP whose ex was a BH pilot. Based on the stories ex shared with me, it’s possible that the other two pilots were just shooting the breeze instead of supervising.

Doing urban flying by a busy airport?

Guess those two must have really trusted the Pilot In Command….

Were they drunk? Distracted? Not participatory in the expedition? All 3 had an obligation to pay attention. If this was human error, then all 3 failed.

If the error was not seeing the actual CRJ, yes all 3 errored.

If something else was going on the last 5 seconds of the Blackhawk’s ride, the public, military and families need to know.
- mechanical
- PIC panic
- medical emergency of PIC or other
- deliberate last second collision

Only close loved ones, doctors, and the helicopter’s black box would shed light on that.

This

[Anonymous]

For a technical discussion, I would recommend following along on a website for pilots, such as pprune.org.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/663888-aa5342-down-dca.html

Many current or former pilots commenting, so it can get technical and be hard to follow. However, in my experience (lurking there for the past 10 years or so), they know what they are talking about, and no one there is suggesting something nefarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

A voice recorder would be nice too. News says that not all helicopters have one, but I'm willing to bet military ones do.

Yes, I would bet they do, for training purposes and also specifically to review incidents.

I would actually assume the black box contained the last couple minutes of voice recording prior to impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

Just admit you don't have any good reason to defend holding the name back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.

We know the names of all the men involved. Why is she being treated differently?

Are feminists ok with this?

She’s not. Their families shared their names.

Wrong. The Army has released their names and specifically says they are with holding hers, due to family request

There is more to this story.

With all of the speculation surrounding this, I would withhold my family members name as well. I’m sure a lot of people want to point fingers and blame and with the rhetoric coming down from the top I doubt there will be any big consequence for anyone that wanted to retaliate against the family to make a point.

It is not your prerogative to release or not. It is a matter of public record who caused a tragedy.

The public record is the NTSB report. Just FYI, names are not subject to disclosure (they are non-FOIABLE) in an NTSB report. Try again and maybe you'll grow beyon basic uninformed moron. Though I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a technical discussion, I would recommend following along on a website for pilots, such as pprune.org.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/663888-aa5342-down-dca.html

Many current or former pilots commenting, so it can get technical and be hard to follow. However, in my experience (lurking there for the past 10 years or so), they know what they are talking about, and no one there is suggesting something nefarious.

Can you summarize what the consensus is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.

We know the names of all the men involved. Why is she being treated differently?

Are feminists ok with this?

She’s not. Their families shared their names.

Wrong. The Army has released their names and specifically says they are with holding hers, due to family request

There is more to this story.

With all of the speculation surrounding this, I would withhold my family members name as well. I’m sure a lot of people want to point fingers and blame and with the rhetoric coming down from the top I doubt there will be any big consequence for anyone that wanted to retaliate against the family to make a point.

It is not your prerogative to release or not. It is a matter of public record who caused a tragedy.

The public record is the NTSB report. Just FYI, names are not subject to disclosure (they are non-FOIABLE) in an NTSB report. Try again and maybe you'll grow beyon basic uninformed moron. Though I doubt it.

Way too many people know who this person was. It's only a matter of time before everyone finds out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

Just admit you don't have any good reason to defend holding the name back.

I’ve got a damned good reason.
If it was my kid, I’d want the name withheld to keep it away from you crazy conspiracy theorist MFs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we should be questioning the Non-DMV politicos - “bipartisan consensus”- that have been pushing greater air traffic into DCA. Here is one - a senator from Delta’s hometown

https://www.warnock.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senator-reverend-warnock-leads-bipartisan-effort-to-refute-misleading-safety-concerns-surrounding-additional-dca-slots/

Reverend Warnock is not the only one. Important to note that politicos from across the aisle in Maryland, Virginia and DC were opposed.

This - reduce the traffic out of DCA!!!