What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heat stroke is not fast-acting enough to incapacitate two adults and a dog only 1.5 miles from their car.

In addition the father had the mother's phone when he died. Sounds like at least one of the two adults was delirious because if the mother was going back to the car for help - she would have taken the phone, if not the baby.

The mother was also first aid trained and from California. I can't imagine its not a natural gas/CO thing.

In the central valley, I was once outdoors on a day where the high was above 115. After standing in the direct sun for a couple of hours in the mid-day, I began to have heat stroke. My vision tunneled and I lost sensation in my hands and feet while I walked a hundred yards or so to a shaded area with misters. It was like being blackout drunk. I would absolutely not have made it 1.5 miles hiking through the desert but I also absolutely would never have hiked in the middle of the day either (and I was being a stupid teen to have stayed out that long in the direct sun in the middle of the day).

The only thing I can think of is that maybe they intended to have a short hike, but it ended up staying out much further into the heat of the day and then were overcome before they could make it back. People who should know better often do things like that and I could see someone one who's never really experienced the heat of that part of CA (which coastal CA doesn't have) not really understanding how bad it gets. Still, that wouldn't explain there still being water in the camelback and his phone. I think a dog who was unable to get to shade/water might also pass away in that kind of heat however that assumes the dog couldn't get free while it still had energy.

I'm the PP who thinks nothing but CO makes sense, maybe toxic algae blooms. I believe in the danger of heat stroke full stop. What I don't believe is that it is plausible that two extremely experienced hikers AND a dog all succumbed to heat stroke simultaneously. That just does not make sense.

I think they went out early Sunday morning or later Sunday evening for a little family hike, this was very close to their house, and something happened. The idea that two extremely experienced parents brought a 1 year old out in 109 degrees without ample protection and then all (and their dog!) succumbed to heat stroke at the exact same moment is just implausible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Permafrost is permanently frozen. That part of CA is a Mediterranean climate with hot dry summers, and wet winters. Nothing would percolate up from the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heat stroke is not fast-acting enough to incapacitate two adults and a dog only 1.5 miles from their car.

In addition the father had the mother's phone when he died. Sounds like at least one of the two adults was delirious because if the mother was going back to the car for help - she would have taken the phone, if not the baby.

The mother was also first aid trained and from California. I can't imagine its not a natural gas/CO thing.

In the central valley, I was once outdoors on a day where the high was above 115. After standing in the direct sun for a couple of hours in the mid-day, I began to have heat stroke. My vision tunneled and I lost sensation in my hands and feet while I walked a hundred yards or so to a shaded area with misters. It was like being blackout drunk. I would absolutely not have made it 1.5 miles hiking through the desert but I also absolutely would never have hiked in the middle of the day either (and I was being a stupid teen to have stayed out that long in the direct sun in the middle of the day).

The only thing I can think of is that maybe they intended to have a short hike, but it ended up staying out much further into the heat of the day and then were overcome before they could make it back. People who should know better often do things like that and I could see someone one who's never really experienced the heat of that part of CA (which coastal CA doesn't have) not really understanding how bad it gets. Still, that wouldn't explain there still being water in the camelback and his phone. I think a dog who was unable to get to shade/water might also pass away in that kind of heat however that assumes the dog couldn't get free while it still had energy.

I'm the PP who thinks nothing but CO makes sense, maybe toxic algae blooms. I believe in the danger of heat stroke full stop. What I don't believe is that it is plausible that two extremely experienced hikers AND a dog all succumbed to heat stroke simultaneously. That just does not make sense.

I think they went out early Sunday morning or later Sunday evening for a little family hike, this was very close to their house, and something happened. The idea that two extremely experienced parents brought a 1 year old out in 109 degrees without ample protection and then all (and their dog!) succumbed to heat stroke at the exact same moment is just implausible.

I don't disagree with you. I don't think they would have intended to be out with an infant in that kind of heat, so something would have to have caused them to be out much longer than anticipated and then the less affected parent would have to have made the decision to stay with the more affected person instead of taking the baby and going ahead and then the dog succumbed as well without fighting to get away to shade and water.

In other heat stroke events where multiple people have been involved, the parties split up with the less affected person(s) going for help. Especially with a baby involved, I have a hard time picturing a parent unwilling to take the baby and go ahead for help.

[Anonymous]

How about this? Dad was carrying the baby in the carrier. He didn't feel well, sat down, was having a heart attack. She went to get the car, got lost, got overheated. Died of heat stroke. Baby and dog died after.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Let me assure you, there is no permafrost in California.

DP. Google and the National Park Service tell me that there is Permafrost in Yosemite and other parts of the Sierra Nevadas. The Sierra National Forest where they were hiking is close to Yosemite. The PP’s theory is not absurd at all.

The very highest peaks of the Sierra Nevadas are very high elevation and can retain snow through the summer, but not most of the mountains and definitely not the foothills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about this? Dad was carrying the baby in the carrier. He didn't feel well, sat down, was having a heart attack. She went to get the car, got lost, got overheated. Died of heat stroke. Baby and dog died after.

An initial autopsy should detect heart attack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should look into whether there were any tremors or minor fault movements that day that might have triggered a gas release.

Gas doesn't just come out of nowhere, unless there is a volcano nearby.

They're saying mines, which there are lots of in that area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about this? Dad was carrying the baby in the carrier. He didn't feel well, sat down, was having a heart attack. She went to get the car, got lost, got overheated. Died of heat stroke. Baby and dog died after.

An initial autopsy should detect heart attack.

Was she not found located with the dad, dog, and baby?

[Anonymous]

This is utterly fascinating. Horrifying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should look into whether there were any tremors or minor fault movements that day that might have triggered a gas release.

Gas doesn't just come out of nowhere, unless there is a volcano nearby.

They're saying mines, which there are lots of in that area.

I know that there is arsenic involved in gold mining, but you'd think that would only be from large scale gold mining operations, not in a hiking area. Could they have filled their canteen with arsenic laced water?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about this? Dad was carrying the baby in the carrier. He didn't feel well, sat down, was having a heart attack. She went to get the car, got lost, got overheated. Died of heat stroke. Baby and dog died after.

An initial autopsy should detect heart attack.

Was she not found located with the dad, dog, and baby?

No, but she wasn't far away. Heart attack doesn't account for immediate deaths of dog and baby either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should look into whether there were any tremors or minor fault movements that day that might have triggered a gas release.

Gas doesn't just come out of nowhere, unless there is a volcano nearby.

They're saying mines, which there are lots of in that area.

I know that there is arsenic involved in gold mining, but you'd think that would only be from large scale gold mining operations, not in a hiking area. Could they have filled their canteen with arsenic laced water?

It would have to be a MASSIVE amount of arsenic to cause death within a couple of hours and that would have caused vomiting and other signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about this? Dad was carrying the baby in the carrier. He didn't feel well, sat down, was having a heart attack. She went to get the car, got lost, got overheated. Died of heat stroke. Baby and dog died after.

An initial autopsy should detect heart attack.

Was she not found located with the dad, dog, and baby?

No, but she wasn't far away. Heart attack doesn't account for immediate deaths of dog and baby either.

It wouldn't have to be immediate. delirium could have caused them to make poor decisions. What if it went the other way, dog and or baby suffered first, they were carrying the dog back to safety, then began to succumb themselves. Focused on keeping the baby healthy with water, rationing it from themselves. Maybe baby was napping in the pack? Agree, it does not make a lot of sense. I'm not saying it wasn't something else, but "immediate death"is not required.

[Anonymous]

When will they know what happened? Someone up thread I think said they were doing tests?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Let me assure you, there is no permafrost in California.

DP. Google and the National Park Service tell me that there is Permafrost in Yosemite and other parts of the Sierra Nevadas. The Sierra National Forest where they were hiking is close to Yosemite. The PP’s theory is not absurd at all.

The very highest peaks of the Sierra Nevadas are very high elevation and can retain snow through the summer, but not most of the mountains and definitely not the foothills.

Well... By definition, that would not be permafrost. Permafrost requires a surface thawing. Being close to Yosemite is not in Yosemite.