CTCL schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster who is concerned that her kid won’t be able to graduate from a top LAC clearly knows that her kid isn’t likely to be accepted into one either.

Not true. I think he can get in and am sad that it might not be the right school for him since I went to one myself.

No, what’s sad is that you think your kid has the stats to get into a school where the graduation rate is 90 or 95 percent or even higher but that he can’t graduate from one. That’s a very odd way of thinking. My kids would be very upset if they thought I felt that way about them.

If you have the stats to get into one of these school, you will graduate. Getting in is the tough part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Says the poster who has been blathering on for 16 pages.

Why do you continue to insist there’s only one poster on this thread who is anti CTCL? Clearly there isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally don't think it's wise to uphold a college list from 25 years ago as gospel. 25 years is a long time for things to have changed, and while I don't doubt many of these schools were fine at the time of publication, why would you expect the same list of obscure schools to uphold the same level of quality through the decades?

The current group has changed slightly from the original list in the book.

Yes, one went bankrupt, and they added four more. How many more will have to go bankrupt before we have to stop hearing about this bizarre marketing push?

Marlboro College was a really unusual place--very, very tiny experimental school (under 200) where faculty and students governed the school. The students who were attracted to go there were on a different track/mindset than most schools, and the school is now an intact institute at Emerson--with the same principles. It's not really a bad outcome--and I expect the kind of people who chose to go to Marlboro are glad they got to experience it when it was independent.

As an aside, for some reason VT schools were particularly hit with financial concerns--Green Mountain College (another tiny school) closed and even Middlebury had to lay off 10% and cut salaries etc. a few years back. Even public schools in the US aren't immune--Some of the university of Wisconsin schools are shuttering programs, arizona state was in straits for awhile and closed a lot of programs. Higher ed is in some rocky financial waters.

I expect in coming years a handful of the CTCL schools might experience financial challenges and merge with similar schools -- as will far more dozens of LACs not on their list (many of those may shut down completely especially small Catholic LACs). You can (and should) look at financial ratings if a fear of bankruptcy worries you in any school you are considering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster who is concerned that her kid won’t be able to graduate from a top LAC clearly knows that her kid isn’t likely to be accepted into one either.

Not true. I think he can get in and am sad that it might not be the right school for him since I went to one myself.

No, what’s sad is that you think your kid has the stats to get into a school where the graduation rate is 90 or 95 percent or even higher but that he can’t graduate from one. That’s a very odd way of thinking. My kids would be very upset if they thought I felt that way about them.

If you have the stats to get into one of these school, you will graduate. Getting in is the tough part.

He doesn’t think he can handle the pressure. He is prepared academically.

[Anonymous]

Here in the Pacific Northwest, the highest ranked LACs are CTCL - Whitman and Reed. Plenty of excellent students choose them over higher ranked colleges farther away. I've never heard anyone refer to them as CTCL. In fact, I just looked them up to double check that they in fact are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here in the Pacific Northwest, the highest ranked LACs are CTCL - Whitman and Reed. Plenty of excellent students choose them over higher ranked colleges farther away. I've never heard anyone refer to them as CTCL. In fact, I just looked them up to double check that they in fact are.

Exactly. Because it's a made-up marketing ploy.

Reed and Whitman are great schools in their own right. No need to use a strange label.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here in the Pacific Northwest, the highest ranked LACs are CTCL - Whitman and Reed. Plenty of excellent students choose them over higher ranked colleges farther away. I've never heard anyone refer to them as CTCL. In fact, I just looked them up to double check that they in fact are.

Exactly. Because it's a made-up marketing ploy.

Reed and Whitman are great schools in their own right. No need to use a strange label.

But it's a way for these schools--who each take a sort of interesting approach to education and are small and off the beaten path to many people -- to have a single presentation introduce them to audiences outside their region. I'm sure they don't each have the budget to regularly send someone to DC individually for the 1-2 students who might attend, but CTCL collectively can present the interests of all these small schools and let people look at which they are interested in. It's not that any of these schools' primary identity is that they are a CTCL school, but it's the way many people in the DMV first hear about them. IMO: Is the title a bit cheesy? Yes. Is the concept bad? No. Are they providing a valuable service: Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here in the Pacific Northwest, the highest ranked LACs are CTCL - Whitman and Reed. Plenty of excellent students choose them over higher ranked colleges farther away. I've never heard anyone refer to them as CTCL. In fact, I just looked them up to double check that they in fact are.

Exactly. Because it's a made-up marketing ploy.

Reed and Whitman are great schools in their own right. No need to use a strange label.

No need but it's just not a big deal if someone does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Says the poster who has been blathering on for 16 pages.

Why do you continue to insist there’s only one poster on this thread who is anti CTCL? Clearly there isn’t.

On page 2 maybe there were two posters. On page 16, there definitely is only one and the rest of us should stop engaging with you.

[Anonymous]

There are at least several different people who have posted against CTCL in the last few pages and the insistence that there is only one person is bordering on the unhinged.

[Anonymous]

The truth is that the vast majority do not care about this CTCL group, and it is really fascinating to see people on the internet fiercely proclaiming that it is, indeed, something that people are aware of and care about. Perhaps they think that the more they post about it, the more the moniker will actually stick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that the vast majority do not care about this CTCL group, and it is really fascinating to see people on the internet fiercely proclaiming that it is, indeed, something that people are aware of and care about. Perhaps they think that the more they post about it, the more the moniker will actually stick.

"CTCL" actually has stuck and a lot of people actually do care about it, myself included. I used to be a CTCL skeptic but then I read the book and also visited a few CTCL campuses. CTCL is a real thing.

To me, dismissing CTCL out of hand is similar to dismissing Big 10 out of hand. Are all CTCLs the same? No. Are all Big 10s the same? No. Do most CTCLs have some cultural qualities in common? Yes. Do most Big 10s have some cultural qualities in common? Yes. Are CTCLs unique in what they have in common? No. (Nobody can deny that SOME other LACs are similar.). Are Big 10s unique in what they have in common? No. (Other state Universities and some private ones are similar.). Are CTCLs right for every kid? Definitely not, but they are great for some, especially smart kids who do better in a friendlier and more collaborative environment. Are Big 10s right for every kid? No, but they are great for some, especially smart kids who are self starters and self directed.

To me, the more info out there, the better, especially if its reasonably communicated. There are a lot of readers who probably haven't thought much about CTCL colleges like Lawrence or Wooster or Whitman, or Big 10 state universities like the University of Minnesota or Indiana University or University of Wisconsin, who probably should.

Having a thread about CTCLs is very helpful. Will most people prefer Williams to Whitman? Of course. But a few will prefer Whitman. And more importantly, for the vast majority who won't get into Williams, it's nice to know that there are great places like Whitman out there that aren't all that selective but offer fantastic educations with nice smart people.

[Anonymous]

The Big Ten is an athletic conference. Its members do not collectively market themselves to prospective students. Your comparison makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Says the poster who has been blathering on for 16 pages.

Why do you continue to insist there’s only one poster on this thread who is anti CTCL? Clearly there isn’t.

On page 2 maybe there were two posters. On page 16, there definitely is only one and the rest of us should stop engaging with you.

Wrong. I’m the poster who on Page 16 called out the “we” poster. That’s my only post on that page. So there are at least two “anti-CTCL” posters on that single page as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that the vast majority do not care about this CTCL group, and it is really fascinating to see people on the internet fiercely proclaiming that it is, indeed, something that people are aware of and care about. Perhaps they think that the more they post about it, the more the moniker will actually stick.

"CTCL" actually has stuck and a lot of people actually do care about it, myself included. I used to be a CTCL skeptic but then I read the book and also visited a few CTCL campuses. CTCL is a real thing.

To me, dismissing CTCL out of hand is similar to dismissing Big 10 out of hand. Are all CTCLs the same? No. Are all Big 10s the same? No. Do most CTCLs have some cultural qualities in common? Yes. Do most Big 10s have some cultural qualities in common? Yes. Are CTCLs unique in what they have in common? No. (Nobody can deny that SOME other LACs are similar.). Are Big 10s unique in what they have in common? No. (Other state Universities and some private ones are similar.). Are CTCLs right for every kid? Definitely not, but they are great for some, especially smart kids who do better in a friendlier and more collaborative environment. Are Big 10s right for every kid? No, but they are great for some, especially smart kids who are self starters and self directed.

To me, the more info out there, the better, especially if its reasonably communicated. There are a lot of readers who probably haven't thought much about CTCL colleges like Lawrence or Wooster or Whitman, or Big 10 state universities like the University of Minnesota or Indiana University or University of Wisconsin, who probably should.

Having a thread about CTCLs is very helpful. Will most people prefer Williams to Whitman? Of course. But a few will prefer Whitman. And more importantly, for the vast majority who won't get into Williams, it's nice to know that there are great places like Whitman out there that aren't all that selective but offer fantastic educations with nice smart people.

No… Big 10 is an actual athletic association (with an accompanying academic consortium). “CTCL” is a literally made-up list that in turn became a marketing organization. The similarities between the two are about as marked as, say, an organized religion and a small cult. You can say you’re a Pastafarian, and that many people subscribe to the Church of Pasta, but you’re going to have an uphill battle trying to convince people it’s as legitimate as the Roman Catholic Church.