So over APS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

[Anonymous]

The retort that parents shouldn’t complaint because they don’t have degrees in education is missing the point, or my point anyway. You don’t need a masters degree in pedagogy to see that teachers’ being completely absent on Mondays is unacceptable. And that the faulty technology platforms and teachers’ inability to post assignment clearly are unacceptable. And that the gotcha mentality for late/missing assignments should be stamped out — seriously I have witnessed my kid post an assignment on canvas that appears to catch and then is just poof gone when the page is refreshed. When that happens, the teacher and school should help, not penalize. Your problem, your solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

(I'm the one who asked what was so bad about the writing assignment.)

Just how well is the current-day curriculum and approach working?
Colleges and employers are bemoaning the fact that graduates are unable to write.
The US is no closer to the top-performing countries in math despite decades of math curriculum reform and efforts.
Students are having to take math review classes/repeat calculus classes when they get to college because despite "doing well" in them in HS they have not mastered the conceptual understanding necessary for continuing on in college level mathematics.
Students who are slow with math facts or who haven't mastered them very often grow to increasingly hate math and struggle more and more as they progress through school, even with once-identified "gifted" math students falling off the advanced math tract in middle or high school.

[Anonymous]

Every critique of the curriculum (why by the way is the VA SOLs, APS doesn’t pull what to teach out of a hat. Please familiarize yourself with the state standards for each subject and grade level) by parents starts with “I am of the opinion...” “I think.....”. We know what you think. Education has evolved. We no longer only teach one way to do things. We want kids to understand what happens to the value of numbers when you multiply them not just follow the rote procedure you (and I) were taught 30 years ago. When you know better, you do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

1) Why should kids have to do the grunt work at home? First of all they never told us to work on that with our kids, and second of all what about kids whose parents done do it?

2) My child does NOT enjoy learning about arrays or number lines at school. That is as pleasant as times tables. Really, can be grunt work if the teacher makes it boring or if the kid isn’t interested.

3) there is research aplenty about scaffolding knowledge. It should be pretty obvious that if a kid doesn’t know their math facts, more advanced math is going to be a bigger challenge. Pick up one book about the cognitive science behind learning and it will show that schools shouldn’t avoid teaching kids math facts.

4) just because they learn how to write paragraphs in fourth grade doesn’t mean students should be expected to write a book in third.

4)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every critique of the curriculum (why by the way is the VA SOLs, APS doesn’t pull what to teach out of a hat. Please familiarize yourself with the state standards for each subject and grade level) by parents starts with “I am of the opinion...” “I think.....”. We know what you think. Education has evolved. We no longer only teach one way to do things. We want kids to understand what happens to the value of numbers when you multiply them not just follow the rote procedure you (and I) were taught 30 years ago. When you know better, you do better.

Okay how about “cognitive science says that learning rote math facts makes students more confident and better prepared for more advanced math?”

I am not at all opposed to my kids learning arrays or skip counting, but people seem to be under the impression that learning those things is more important than knowing off the top of your head that 7*7 = 49. Which is just wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

1) Why should kids have to do the grunt work at home? First of all they never told us to work on that with our kids, and second of all what about kids whose parents done do it?

2) My child does NOT enjoy learning about arrays or number lines at school. That is as pleasant as times tables. Really, can be grunt work if the teacher makes it boring or if the kid isn’t interested.

3) there is research aplenty about scaffolding knowledge. It should be pretty obvious that if a kid doesn’t know their math facts, more advanced math is going to be a bigger challenge. Pick up one book about the cognitive science behind learning and it will show that schools shouldn’t avoid teaching kids math facts.

4) just because they learn how to write paragraphs in fourth grade doesn’t mean students should be expected to write a book in third.

1) it’s called homework and my kids have always done math facts in reflex math until they mastered them.

3) Kids should certainly learn math facts but it’s more important to cover the concepts.

4) They are focusing on high-level features and structure of a “book”. It’s a fun project that reinforces what was taught re: books. TOC, chapters, index, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every critique of the curriculum (why by the way is the VA SOLs, APS doesn’t pull what to teach out of a hat. Please familiarize yourself with the state standards for each subject and grade level) by parents starts with “I am of the opinion...” “I think.....”. We know what you think. Education has evolved. We no longer only teach one way to do things. We want kids to understand what happens to the value of numbers when you multiply them not just follow the rote procedure you (and I) were taught 30 years ago. When you know better, you do better.

Okay how about “cognitive science says that learning rote math facts makes students more confident and better prepared for more advanced math?”

I am not at all opposed to my kids learning arrays or skip counting, but people seem to be under the impression that learning those things is more important than knowing off the top of your head that 7*7 = 49. Which is just wrong.

Uh...it *is* more important to understand the concept of multiplication than rote memorization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

(I'm the one who asked what was so bad about the writing assignment.)

Just how well is the current-day curriculum and approach working?
Colleges and employers are bemoaning the fact that graduates are unable to write.
The US is no closer to the top-performing countries in math despite decades of math curriculum reform and efforts.
Students are having to take math review classes/repeat calculus classes when they get to college because despite "doing well" in them in HS they have not mastered the conceptual understanding necessary for continuing on in college level mathematics.
Students who are slow with math facts or who haven't mastered them very often grow to increasingly hate math and struggle more and more as they progress through school, even with once-identified "gifted" math students falling off the advanced math tract in middle or high school.

Employers are bemoaning the fact that graduates are unprofessional and have an awful work ethic. Is this APS’ fault, too? Gifted only gets a kid so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every critique of the curriculum (why by the way is the VA SOLs, APS doesn’t pull what to teach out of a hat. Please familiarize yourself with the state standards for each subject and grade level) by parents starts with “I am of the opinion...” “I think.....”. We know what you think. Education has evolved. We no longer only teach one way to do things. We want kids to understand what happens to the value of numbers when you multiply them not just follow the rote procedure you (and I) were taught 30 years ago. When you know better, you do better.

Okay how about “cognitive science says that learning rote math facts makes students more confident and better prepared for more advanced math?”

I am not at all opposed to my kids learning arrays or skip counting, but people seem to be under the impression that learning those things is more important than knowing off the top of your head that 7*7 = 49. Which is just wrong.

That’s what reflex math does. It is part of the curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

I'm a lawyer, and I freely admit that I don't know how to teach. But my child's teachers expect me to teach him. Teachers are the only "professionals" who want to have it both ways - they want to be treated as unique professionals, and yet they act like anyone can do their jobs. Which is it?

[Anonymous]

they act like anyone can do their jobs.

WTF are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

I'm a lawyer, and I freely admit that I don't know how to teach. But my child's teachers expect me to teach him. Teachers are the only "professionals" who want to have it both ways - they want to be treated as unique professionals, and yet they act like anyone can do their jobs. Which is it?

They are teaching him. I just think a lot of parents want school to be the way they remember it, and it’s changed- for the better, even if you don’t recognize it. You probably have to do a little more, too. Show me the private school that is doing it all for them, sans support at home. The schools never did it all for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just about done with people claiming they want more for their tax money. At most you pay $15k for your property taxes. Find a top public school for your multiple children on the portion of that given to APS. You get a pretty good value for your money actually.

Public institutions are not fee for service. That isn't the model of a government school. Some highly taxed people don't send their kids there. Some no-taxed people send many kids there. Taxes are levied to support a functional school system for the good of the public, not as a service for parents. I think people are questioning whether APS is delivering a good public school system. I am questioning that. When people claim I can't complain because of the amount of my property taxes, that makes me think they don't understand what a public good is. It also makes me wonder whether they're APS teachers or staff who think they're above reproach.

It also makes me wonder why there is such complacency. I tend to think that has something to do with the general psychological makeup of wealthy parents.

I used to be fine with APS because I thought that as long as my kids were having a good experience at school, I was happy with it, and I have a high HHI and lots of degrees so my kids will eventually wind up fine.

But then I heard what was going on in class and was soooo disappointed with the curriculum. I think the kids should have gone back to school earlier but that wasn’t even my main issue because it was a difficult call to make. But I felt like my kid just wasn’t learning anything from school. Math was okay because DS had a good math teacher but I just cannot stand the idea that my child is spending 7 hours in school learning stuff like captions, and then being expected to write a book (A LITERAL BOOK WITH CHAPTERS AND A TABLE OF CONTENTS AND EVERYTHING) when he had never learned to write a good paragraph. Plus there was no feedback on any of the writing he worked so hard on. I knew that they didn’t learn much science or social studies but I just found the hours and hours of reading and math instruction depressing.

Now I get that both things are true: my kid will do fine in life no matter what, and APS curriculum sucks and should be changed.

Why are you so convinced that your “kid will do fine in life no matter what ....”? I hear that a lot in Arlington. What is it? Delusional thinking? Privilege? Entitlement? The notion that a certain HHI guarantees one a place on top of the hierarchy in the future? All of those things strike me as out of step with equity.

The fact that the HHI and income level of parents is highly correlated with how well their children do in life is inequitable, of course, but it is reality. While causation hasn’t been established, there are hundreds of studies that demonstrate the correlation. Just google it.

And I don’t mean to say that my kid will do fine literally no matter what; of course if I abuse him or something he will not. But the particulars of his elementary education (homeschool, private school, public school—regardless of the curriculum), will not have a major impact on his long-term success.

Ooh. This will be interesting. Two bitter souls united in their disdain and criticism of their child’s teachers, the curriculum, and all of APS. However, one brings *parenting* into it. Her kid will be fine, because she’s rich and educated. Getting my popcorn…

Sorry to disappoint, but I have distain for neither APS nor my kids’ teachers. In fact I think their teachers have been amazing and have don’t a great job in spite of the lackluster curriculum APS uses. It is possible to say that kids should learn how to write a good topic sentence before they are asked to write a book without hating the teachers.

And again, I don’t really fault APS for how they handled the pandemic. I think that based on the information we had at the time, APS made reasonable choices.

But enjoy your popcorn.

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but it sounds like less of a curricular issue and maybe a bad choice on the part of the teacher. One bad choice. One of my kids had a not so great teacher last year, but I still think it was good for her, for other reasons. Like you, I didn’t complain. Also… two kids, one mediocre (not awful) teacher in the whole bit- not bad. She needed to work with him. It’s life. For the record, you are right about HHI and income level. Facts are facts.

AND- I would complain, of course, if something really merited it. But nothing yet. One bad assignment? Probably not

NP. I'm curious as to why that assignment was so bad. My children are in high school and I think the writing curriculum in APS is crap. So on the surface, writing a complete book sounds like an excellent assignment. To the parent complaining about it, you said your child hadn't learned to write a complete paragraph yet. Was that because none of the students had been taught how to write a paragraph yet - and perhaps they would learn as they worked through the book assignment? Or just that your child hadn't yet mastered writing a paragraph, or a paragraph to your standards and expectations? Did it occur to you that he would get lots of practice at writing paragraphs by writing a book? That writing lots of paragraphs and putting them together in the context of a larger assignment with different parts might be a way to make learning to write more interesting, to apply thinking and creativity and writing skills while further developing those skills? What did the teacher explain about the assignment when you brought your concerns to her?

Wow, there are a lot of questions there. I will just sum up a response by saying that at the beginning of the year they were harping on students to write sentences (in response to questions about a story they were reading and isolated nonfiction paragraphs) that were at least five words long. That’s it. That’s was the only expectation they had for writing. The very next writing assignment was a book.

(The focus of the assignment wasn’t really writing, it was text features. I am of the opinion that it is more important to have instruction on topic sentences than several days of learning what a caption is, but that’s neither here nor there.)

It was not just my kid’s class. This was the curriculum for the entire third grade in the school. And I have seen other APS parents complain of the same thing.

And this is just one example. During a parent teacher conference for my older child the teacher lamented that they didn’t have enough time to teach times tables so my kid, who hadn’t picked up on it as quickly as others, needed to practice it at home. They spent all the time at school learning how to do multiplication on the number line and with arrays etc.

Also as to your point about the wisdom of writing a book before writing a paragraph: I disagree that a kid can kind of just pick up the skill of writing a topic sentence as they go. I think they need specific instruction in that skill. And for my kid, the experience of writing a book before knowing how to write a paragraph was extremely frustrating, and he is no better and writing paragraphs after the assignment.

So yeah, it’s not the teacher, it’s the curriculum.

They prioritize multiplication concepts over fact fluency. Fact fluency is grunt work that IMO is better done at home.

Don't worry - 4th grade dives deep into paragraphs. The 3rd grade book was to understand the structure and features of a book. Different concepts.

I have issues with APS but not with this stuff...

This is what I’m talking about. There’s research, intention, and methodology behind this stuff, but many parents will pick it apart because they are educated (but in something else) and think they know better. They may be the best doctors, lawyers, whatever, but teachers were trained in education.

I'm a lawyer, and I freely admit that I don't know how to teach. But my child's teachers expect me to teach him. Teachers are the only "professionals" who want to have it both ways - they want to be treated as unique professionals, and yet they act like anyone can do their jobs. Which is it?

We want you to stay in your lane, AND support us in our work. Make sure your child reads and practices fast facts at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every critique of the curriculum (why by the way is the VA SOLs, APS doesn’t pull what to teach out of a hat. Please familiarize yourself with the state standards for each subject and grade level) by parents starts with “I am of the opinion...” “I think.....”. We know what you think. Education has evolved. We no longer only teach one way to do things. We want kids to understand what happens to the value of numbers when you multiply them not just follow the rote procedure you (and I) were taught 30 years ago. When you know better, you do better.

Okay how about “cognitive science says that learning rote math facts makes students more confident and better prepared for more advanced math?”

I am not at all opposed to my kids learning arrays or skip counting, but people seem to be under the impression that learning those things is more important than knowing off the top of your head that 7*7 = 49. Which is just wrong.

Uh...it *is* more important to understand the concept of multiplication than rote memorization.

No they are equally important. It doesn’t do much good to know that you can do 7*7 by drawing a number line when you are being asked to do 37*17 on a timed test.

I really don’t understand why people are so opposed to spending class time learning math facts?