5th Grade CogAT : Number Correct

[Anonymous]

So if you have a kid that is 11 and 1 month, they would be compared to other kids who are also 11 and 1 month who are in fifth grade who attend MCPS schools with a similar ooverty rate? That seems like it might be a small universe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

I could probably guess the school in the Whitman cluster this PP's child attends.

Which school? Why do you say you can guess?

[Anonymous]

Do ES schools know who got in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if you have a kid that is 11 and 1 month, they would be compared to other kids who are also 11 and 1 month who are in fifth grade who attend MCPS schools with a similar ooverty rate? That seems like it might be a small universe.

Aren't the local percentiles produced with grade norms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you have a kid that is 11 and 1 month, they would be compared to other kids who are also 11 and 1 month who are in fifth grade who attend MCPS schools with a similar ooverty rate? That seems like it might be a small universe.

Aren't the local percentiles produced with grade norms?

From the FAQ- https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf
"The locally normed percentiles on the CogAT assessment were created from the distribution of Standard Age Scores(SAS) for students based on the socioeconomic status of elementary schools. SAS are provided by the vendor for all students and allow for the comparison “of the rate and level of cognitive development of a particular student with others in the same age group.” This process of determining local norms based on the SAS follows the local norming approach implemented by CogAT developers. As indicated in the CogAT Score Guide, “Standard age scores use the power of national norms to control for the effects of age.” Additionally, given students tested were in the same grade and tested around the same time, the effects of grade are also controlled with SAS. To determine the locally normed percentiles, students with the highest SAS in the group were assigned the highest percentile rank and those with the lowest SAS were assigned the lowest percentile rank."

MCPS determined their percentiles by using a the SAS (Standard Age Score) provided by the vendor. This score takes into account the student's age at the time of the test. So the score MCPS uses for creating their percentile has been "adjusted" for age and since all students who are testing for the magnet are in 5th grade it takes into account grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do ES schools know who got in?

Of course, they do. Our school has a magnet coordinator, I'm sure she routinely receives not only the acceptance decisions but also the scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you have a kid that is 11 and 1 month, they would be compared to other kids who are also 11 and 1 month who are in fifth grade who attend MCPS schools with a similar ooverty rate? That seems like it might be a small universe.

Aren't the local percentiles produced with grade norms?

From the FAQ- https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/FAQs%202020.pdf
"The locally normed percentiles on the CogAT assessment were created from the distribution of Standard Age Scores(SAS) for students based on the socioeconomic status of elementary schools. SAS are provided by the vendor for all students and allow for the comparison “of the rate and level of cognitive development of a particular student with others in the same age group.” This process of determining local norms based on the SAS follows the local norming approach implemented by CogAT developers. As indicated in the CogAT Score Guide, “Standard age scores use the power of national norms to control for the effects of age.” Additionally, given students tested were in the same grade and tested around the same time, the effects of grade are also controlled with SAS. To determine the locally normed percentiles, students with the highest SAS in the group were assigned the highest percentile rank and those with the lowest SAS were assigned the lowest percentile rank."

MCPS determined their percentiles by using a the SAS (Standard Age Score) provided by the vendor. This score takes into account the student's age at the time of the test. So the score MCPS uses for creating their percentile has been "adjusted" for age and since all students who are testing for the magnet are in 5th grade it takes into account grade.

Thank you but I was referring to the National age norms which are age norms irrelevant of grade. Interesting to see that age norms were used for MCPS data too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

I could probably guess the school in the Whitman cluster this PP's child attends.

Which school? Why do you say you can guess?

+1 I was the one who posted my kid’s stats, and I would love to know your guess as to the ES and the reason why you guessed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

Really? Are you saying that accepting a CES invitation drastically reduces MS magnet chances? If that is true, it is really really unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

Really? Are you saying that accepting a CES invitation drastically reduces MS magnet chances? If that is true, it is really really unfair.

I don't know about DRASTICALLY. I have a child in an east county regional CES and at least 5 kids were admitted to either Eastern or TPMS that my child is aware of. There are 50 kids in the program, and my child only talks to other boys, so I have to assume the total number is higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

I'm not so sure about representation from each ES. My child said they had the counselor's 'talk about magnets', and the counselor said that, in the past, 5 kids from our school got into a magnet, and last year nobody did. She was trying to make a point how competitive and unpredictable the admissions process is, but I do believe that, some years, the selection committee might completely pass a school up if it's within a certain SES level and no one really stands out there. I'm sure this scenario isn't statistically impossible.

[Anonymous]

No, plenty of kids are still getting in.
DD is at a different CES (different total number of students) and at least 6 kids were admitted so far. She's heard there are more but letters just came out in our area.

I do think that because of their goal of having every ES in the mix they are taking lower scoring kids if they are the top lower scoring kids at their school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

I'm not so sure about representation from each ES. My child said they had the counselor's 'talk about magnets', and the counselor said that, in the past, 5 kids from our school got into a magnet, and last year nobody did. She was trying to make a point how competitive and unpredictable the admissions process is, but I do believe that, some years, the selection committee might completely pass a school up if it's within a certain SES level and no one really stands out there. I'm sure this scenario isn't statistically impossible.

What school or cluster? I'm pretty sure MCPS bragged it had had representation from every middle school.

[Anonymous]

^^ Every elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is cracking me up--it's so much like College Confidential around the time college decisions are released, down to checking UPS notifications to see what kind of package will be arriving.

Here are my kid's stats:

Cogat raw scores V55, Q47, NV 39 (the lowest I've seen on here), which translates to MCPS V97%, Q93%, NV79%, and national 99%, 99%, and 93% for a 99% composite (VQN).
Fall Map-M 249, Map-R 238.
5s on PARCC
All As

Recommended for both Eastern and TPMS.

White boy, high SES (Whitman feeder) ES, not CES. No prepping. Didn't realize he took the Cogat, and, in fact, never heard of it before we got the letter in the mail yesterday. Had not considered the possibility of magnets, so this is all a surprise.

You know what's funny? A lot of us will likely be at one open house or the other. Should we have a secret DCUM sign, or would you prefer to pretend you've never even heard of this site?

There are so many layers of the admissions process (local norming, peer group, etc.) that I think everyone forgets that MCPS consciously has been trying to make sure there's representation from each ES. In practice that means usually at least the 2 top scorers at a school will get in no matter how they compare with others in their SES band or peer cohort. The elementary schools where few people go to the CES are the most competitive. The elementary schools where many of the top kids go to the CES may be easier some years. I know at our CES there are some elementary schools that only sent 2-3 kids but others that sent 10 kids!

I could probably guess the school in the Whitman cluster this PP's child attends.

Which school? Why do you say you can guess?

+1 I was the one who posted my kid’s stats, and I would love to know your guess as to the ES and the reason why you guessed it.

I think there are some schools where a big group of high flyers left to go to the CES giving others the opportunity to shine. In other schools many of those kids who could have gone to the CES turned it down.