How important is TJ for college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Completely unnecessary and small-minded comment. As many others have pointed out, compared to TJ any other school would be considered embarrassing for obvious reasons. Can we please get off this cycle?

I agree with the conclusions that multiple people have posted - When it comes to college admissions, TJ is important to the top 15-20% at TJ. For the rest, it is either the same (21-70%) or worse (bottom 30%).

When it comes to college readiness, I'm assuming the "TJ rigor" helps in the first 1-2 years at college. It might also help with completing college sooner. Don't have numbers to prove this. It's all anectodal.

When it comes to cool stories about HS - Had sex behind the bleachers, smoked pot in the principal's office, etc. TJ would likely be a major fail.

Can we close this thread now? PLEASE!!!

Isn't Madison one of the top high schools in Northern VA?

Yes it is. I assume Langley and McLean admission results likely will only be marginally better. The Naviance data accessible through FCPS Blackboard (which only can be accessed by parents and students of each HS) shows just how difficult it is now for the top kids to get into the so called elite colleges espe from this hyper competitive DC Metro area (and it has gotten even tougher over the last few years with college applications soaring). For ex, in 2011 UVA had 23,587 applications while this year UVA will have nearly 37,500 applications. UVA's early action numbers have gone from 11,753 in 2012 (first yr of early action) to 21,393 this year.

[Anonymous]

Source for UVA numbers is UVA's admissions blog:

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Source for UVA numbers is UVA's admissions blog:

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/

Parent of a 1st year TJ student here, and I'm frankly stunned by these UVA stats. Likely could be the subject of a new thread in the College forum but what is behind the applications surge at UVA and the US overall? I may be wrong but I believe the US college age population has been pretty stable over the last 10 years.

And thank you PP for the link to the Notes from Peabody blog which is full of interesting information and advice for HS students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

That part isn't true - a large number of TJ kids come from four high school pyramids: Langley, McLean, Oakton and Chantilly. The Madison pyramid sends less than 1/2 as many kids to TJ as those schools. One can argue as to the reasons (weaker AAP middle schools, desire to stay at the Vienna high school, etc.), but it's not like every school is getting 10% of its kids siphoned off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

I am underwhelmed by Madison's college acceptances. One would expect much better results from one of the top high schools in one of the best school districts in the country with very high SES student population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

That part isn't true - a large number of TJ kids come from four high school pyramids: Langley, McLean, Oakton and Chantilly. The Madison pyramid sends less than 1/2 as many kids to TJ as those schools. One can argue as to the reasons (weaker AAP middle schools, desire to stay at the Vienna high school, etc.), but it's not like every school is getting 10% of its kids siphoned off.

About 30% of TJ students come from other jurisdictions other than Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

I am underwhelmed by Madison's college acceptances. One would expect much better results from one of the top high schools in one of the best school districts in the country with very high SES student population.

Underwhelming indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

I am underwhelmed by Madison's college acceptances. One would expect much better results from one of the top high schools in one of the best school districts in the country with very high SES student population.

Didn't know GMU, CNU, ODU etc. were considered top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

I am underwhelmed by Madison's college acceptances. One would expect much better results from one of the top high schools in one of the best school districts in the country with very high SES student population.

Didn't know GMU, CNU, ODU etc. were considered top colleges.

Nope those are the lower tier. Top tier is higher up in the page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Source for UVA numbers is UVA's admissions blog:

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/

Parent of a 1st year TJ student here, and I'm frankly stunned by these UVA stats. Likely could be the subject of a new thread in the College forum but what is behind the applications surge at UVA and the US overall? I may be wrong but I believe the US college age population has been pretty stable over the last 10 years.

And thank you PP for the link to the Notes from Peabody blog which is full of interesting information and advice for HS students.

Damn foreigners! Not the ones here but in China (mostly) and India (some) sending their kids to the US for undergrad. As the college moves up the rankings, demand from foreigners increases.

[Anonymous]

I have tried to show that the top kids at a base HS: Madison (the only school for which I have data) does well in college admissions. I provided data showing that the top quarter of Madison has similar (not identical) results as TJ does (maybe with exception of the very top of TJ.

The TJ booster turn it around into how much better TJ is, ignoring the fact that you have to be in the top 5% of the county to get into TJ.

The DATA clearly shows that 1) TJ has great results in college admission, 2) The top quarter of at least one base school has similar results.

The question was on the impact of TJ and admissions. It is not really possible to directly compare TJ to base schools, because the starting point is different. However, with statistical normalization, you can.

So, I compared 8 year at madison to 1 year at TJ. That was the purpose. And we found, for may schools (e.g., Princeton) similar numbers from JMHS over 8 years as TJ had for one. On the other hand, the more pure STEM schools were definitely stronger for TJ than Madison (MIT, Caltech). Not surprised.

The TJ boosters used this as an excuse to bash Madison, which is at best tacky and borders on trolling.

But, if you look at it another way: probably 99% of TJ comes from AAP. About 25% for Madison (goes baed on the number of kids at TMS in AAP and LJMS in AAP minus the few that got to TJ).

The cohorts are not the the same, so to compare them without normalization is completely misleading use of statistics. And I thought Stats was a requirement for first semester math at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have tried to show that the top kids at a base HS: Madison (the only school for which I have data) does well in college admissions. I provided data showing that the top quarter of Madison has similar (not identical) results as TJ does (maybe with exception of the very top of TJ.

The TJ booster turn it around into how much better TJ is, ignoring the fact that you have to be in the top 5% of the county to get into TJ.

The DATA clearly shows that 1) TJ has great results in college admission, 2) The top quarter of at least one base school has similar results.

The question was on the impact of TJ and admissions. It is not really possible to directly compare TJ to base schools, because the starting point is different. However, with statistical normalization, you can.

So, I compared 8 year at madison to 1 year at TJ. That was the purpose. And we found, for may schools (e.g., Princeton) similar numbers from JMHS over 8 years as TJ had for one. On the other hand, the more pure STEM schools were definitely stronger for TJ than Madison (MIT, Caltech). Not surprised.

The TJ boosters used this as an excuse to bash Madison, which is at best tacky and borders on trolling.

But, if you look at it another way: probably 99% of TJ comes from AAP. About 25% for Madison (goes baed on the number of kids at TMS in AAP and LJMS in AAP minus the few that got to TJ).

The cohorts are not the the same, so to compare them without normalization is completely misleading use of statistics. And I thought Stats was a requirement for first semester math at TJ.

Madison' acceptances on its own are still underwhelming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have tried to show that the top kids at a base HS: Madison (the only school for which I have data) does well in college admissions. I provided data showing that the top quarter of Madison has similar (not identical) results as TJ does (maybe with exception of the very top of TJ.

The TJ booster turn it around into how much better TJ is, ignoring the fact that you have to be in the top 5% of the county to get into TJ.

The DATA clearly shows that 1) TJ has great results in college admission, 2) The top quarter of at least one base school has similar results.

The question was on the impact of TJ and admissions. It is not really possible to directly compare TJ to base schools, because the starting point is different. However, with statistical normalization, you can.

So, I compared 8 year at madison to 1 year at TJ. That was the purpose. And we found, for may schools (e.g., Princeton) similar numbers from JMHS over 8 years as TJ had for one. On the other hand, the more pure STEM schools were definitely stronger for TJ than Madison (MIT, Caltech). Not surprised.

The TJ boosters used this as an excuse to bash Madison, which is at best tacky and borders on trolling.

But, if you look at it another way: probably 99% of TJ comes from AAP. About 25% for Madison (goes baed on the number of kids at TMS in AAP and LJMS in AAP minus the few that got to TJ).

The cohorts are not the the same, so to compare them without normalization is completely misleading use of statistics. And I thought Stats was a requirement for first semester math at TJ.

Anyone comparing the two schools is you.

[Anonymous]

There appear to be reasonable people on both sides of this "debate," even if most seem to agree that effect on college admissions is marginal. The problem is that a bunch of petulant little twits on this thread on both sides. I figure this likely do to feelings of sexual inadequacy, but what do I know? As a pro-TJ poster, I would like to apologize for these recent, vacuous posts made by others demeaning Madison. These posts were underwhelming to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have tried to show that the top kids at a base HS: Madison (the only school for which I have data) does well in college admissions. I provided data showing that the top quarter of Madison has similar (not identical) results as TJ does (maybe with exception of the very top of TJ.

The TJ booster turn it around into how much better TJ is, ignoring the fact that you have to be in the top 5% of the county to get into TJ.

The DATA clearly shows that 1) TJ has great results in college admission, 2) The top quarter of at least one base school has similar results.

The question was on the impact of TJ and admissions. It is not really possible to directly compare TJ to base schools, because the starting point is different. However, with statistical normalization, you can.

So, I compared 8 year at madison to 1 year at TJ. That was the purpose. And we found, for may schools (e.g., Princeton) similar numbers from JMHS over 8 years as TJ had for one. On the other hand, the more pure STEM schools were definitely stronger for TJ than Madison (MIT, Caltech). Not surprised.

The TJ boosters used this as an excuse to bash Madison, which is at best tacky and borders on trolling.

But, if you look at it another way: probably 99% of TJ comes from AAP. About 25% for Madison (goes baed on the number of kids at TMS in AAP and LJMS in AAP minus the few that got to TJ).

The cohorts are not the the same, so to compare them without normalization is completely misleading use of statistics. And I thought Stats was a requirement for first semester math at TJ.

Anyone comparing the two schools is you.

Even if one compared 8 year period for Madison and 1 year (average of 8 years) for TJ, Madison still does poorly in comparison.