How important is TJ for college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point of the thread is not: do TJ students, on average, go to better schools than kids at the base school. Of course they do. The kids at TJ are universally in at least the top 10% of a very good system.

The question is: are TJ's numbers so good because of the school, or because they grouped all of these smart people in one building.

Answering that question is not easy. What I tried to do is look at the top 10% of the base school. But, some of those kids, possibly half, ended up at TJ already.
But, there is no way to know what an individual would have done had they gone to the base school. I know kids from TJ going to good (but not great) colleges (UC schools other than Berkeley, for example). And I know kids from the base school going to Princeton, Penn, etc.

What is unknown is the effect TJ had in college admissions. Clearly at the very top -- the top 30-50 kids at TJ, it helped. They would have also been in the top 30-50 at the base. The problem with the base (and TJ too) is separating #20 from #2 or #1. These kids probably have nearly straight A's -- the difference in GPA is the number of honors/AP classes. So, if a kid is in band, they can not take as many AP classes as someone not in band (band takes up 1 period in each year which could otherwise be used for AP/Honors). Also, if a kid wan unable to take a class over the summer, that means there are fewer slots during the year. These are factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the student; the schools know that.

At the base school, though, the top 20-30 students do not all get into elite schools. Some might, some won't. But, maybe 5 of them would have been in the top 20-30 students at TJ. Those kids can get into the elites: MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc. So if you are in that small group, it definitely helps get into the better reputation of college (I can have a whole other argument if that makes a difference, but that is for another thread). Beyond that, the top 50 kids at the base school to just as well and the typical (non-top kid) at TJ. But, the kid from TJ had to work so much harder.

The hard work is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it is a lot more stress which is not good, but they may not be surprised by the work load at college. again the way to understand the impact is to look at the college performance of TJ vs base students, correcting for the difference in average intelligence. I do not have access to the data, though.

Thank you! A voice of reason! I agree with you!

I am PP and the person who presented the madison numbers. This is the point I was trying to make. I will also add that there other (non college) reasons to go to TJ. The opportunities for hands-on learning exceed those at any other school in the county, and possibly the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point of the thread is not: do TJ students, on average, go to better schools than kids at the base school. Of course they do. The kids at TJ are universally in at least the top 10% of a very good system.

The question is: are TJ's numbers so good because of the school, or because they grouped all of these smart people in one building.

Answering that question is not easy. What I tried to do is look at the top 10% of the base school. But, some of those kids, possibly half, ended up at TJ already.
But, there is no way to know what an individual would have done had they gone to the base school. I know kids from TJ going to good (but not great) colleges (UC schools other than Berkeley, for example). And I know kids from the base school going to Princeton, Penn, etc.

What is unknown is the effect TJ had in college admissions. Clearly at the very top -- the top 30-50 kids at TJ, it helped. They would have also been in the top 30-50 at the base. The problem with the base (and TJ too) is separating #20 from #2 or #1. These kids probably have nearly straight A's -- the difference in GPA is the number of honors/AP classes. So, if a kid is in band, they can not take as many AP classes as someone not in band (band takes up 1 period in each year which could otherwise be used for AP/Honors). Also, if a kid wan unable to take a class over the summer, that means there are fewer slots during the year. These are factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the student; the schools know that.

At the base school, though, the top 20-30 students do not all get into elite schools. Some might, some won't. But, maybe 5 of them would have been in the top 20-30 students at TJ. Those kids can get into the elites: MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc. So if you are in that small group, it definitely helps get into the better reputation of college (I can have a whole other argument if that makes a difference, but that is for another thread). Beyond that, the top 50 kids at the base school to just as well and the typical (non-top kid) at TJ. But, the kid from TJ had to work so much harder.

The hard work is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it is a lot more stress which is not good, but they may not be surprised by the work load at college. again the way to understand the impact is to look at the college performance of TJ vs base students, correcting for the difference in average intelligence. I do not have access to the data, though.

Thank you! A voice of reason! I agree with you!

I am PP and the person who presented the madison numbers. This is the point I was trying to make. I will also add that there other (non college) reasons to go to TJ. The opportunities for hands-on learning exceed those at any other school in the county, and possibly the country.

I won’t disagree with you on that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UCLA 89/7
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

This is very impressive given how Asians are discriminated against in college admissions especially for top 20-25 universities. The stats would be even better without this discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ is the Nathan Chen of high schools - all hype but doesn’t deliver in the end.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nathan-chen-says-screw-en-route-olympic-history-050738094.html

"He tried it. All six. He landed five. The other he needed to touch his hands to the ice. He was otherwise nearly flawless. The routine was astounding in the athletic ability it commanded and the courage it was based upon. This was the X Games coming to the skating hall.

The arena stood and roared. The judges scored it an absurd 215.08 — nine points higher than anyone in the free skate, including the eventual gold medalist. He astoundingly wound up finishing in fifth place, tops among Americans. Vincent Zhou finished sixth. Adam Rippon was 10th. It was a near impossible climb."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Completely unnecessary and small-minded comment. As many others have pointed out, compared to TJ any other school would be considered embarrassing for obvious reasons. Can we please get off this cycle?

I agree with the conclusions that multiple people have posted - When it comes to college admissions, TJ is important to the top 15-20% at TJ. For the rest, it is either the same (21-70%) or worse (bottom 30%).

When it comes to college readiness, I'm assuming the "TJ rigor" helps in the first 1-2 years at college. It might also help with completing college sooner. Don't have numbers to prove this. It's all anectodal.

When it comes to cool stories about HS - Had sex behind the bleachers, smoked pot in the principal's office, etc. TJ would likely be a major fail.

Can we close this thread now? PLEASE!!!

[Anonymous]

For the poster who provided madison and TJ numbers for 8 years - Can you provide a link to that data? I'm interested in other HS' in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Completely unnecessary and small-minded comment. As many others have pointed out, compared to TJ any other school would be considered embarrassing for obvious reasons. Can we please get off this cycle?

I agree with the conclusions that multiple people have posted - When it comes to college admissions, TJ is important to the top 15-20% at TJ. For the rest, it is either the same (21-70%) or worse (bottom 30%).

When it comes to college readiness, I'm assuming the "TJ rigor" helps in the first 1-2 years at college. It might also help with completing college sooner. Don't have numbers to prove this. It's all anectodal.

When it comes to cool stories about HS - Had sex behind the bleachers, smoked pot in the principal's office, etc. TJ would likely be a major fail.

Can we close this thread now? PLEASE!!!

You would encourage sex behind the bleachers or smoking pot in the principal's office during high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Completely unnecessary and small-minded comment. As many others have pointed out, compared to TJ any other school would be considered embarrassing for obvious reasons. Can we please get off this cycle?

I agree with the conclusions that multiple people have posted - When it comes to college admissions, TJ is important to the top 15-20% at TJ. For the rest, it is either the same (21-70%) or worse (bottom 30%).

When it comes to college readiness, I'm assuming the "TJ rigor" helps in the first 1-2 years at college. It might also help with completing college sooner. Don't have numbers to prove this. It's all anectodal.

When it comes to cool stories about HS - Had sex behind the bleachers, smoked pot in the principal's office, etc. TJ would likely be a major fail.

Can we close this thread now? PLEASE!!!

You would encourage sex behind the bleachers or smoking pot in the principal's office during high school?

For my kids, NO WAY (that's why they are in TJ among other things). For myself, HYFR! (I'm a guy and did not go to a school like TJ).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Completely unnecessary and small-minded comment. As many others have pointed out, compared to TJ any other school would be considered embarrassing for obvious reasons. Can we please get off this cycle?

I agree with the conclusions that multiple people have posted - When it comes to college admissions, TJ is important to the top 15-20% at TJ. For the rest, it is either the same (21-70%) or worse (bottom 30%).

When it comes to college readiness, I'm assuming the "TJ rigor" helps in the first 1-2 years at college. It might also help with completing college sooner. Don't have numbers to prove this. It's all anectodal.

When it comes to cool stories about HS - Had sex behind the bleachers, smoked pot in the principal's office, etc. TJ would likely be a major fail.

Can we close this thread now? PLEASE!!!

You would encourage sex behind the bleachers or smoking pot in the principal's office during high school?

For my kids, NO WAY (that's why they are in TJ among other things). For myself, HYFR! (I'm a guy and did not go to a school like TJ).

Double standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UC Berkeley 205/70
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43


Madison

Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Completely unnecessary and small-minded comment. As many others have pointed out, compared to TJ any other school would be considered embarrassing for obvious reasons. Can we please get off this cycle?

I agree with the conclusions that multiple people have posted - When it comes to college admissions, TJ is important to the top 15-20% at TJ. For the rest, it is either the same (21-70%) or worse (bottom 30%).

When it comes to college readiness, I'm assuming the "TJ rigor" helps in the first 1-2 years at college. It might also help with completing college sooner. Don't have numbers to prove this. It's all anectodal.

When it comes to cool stories about HS - Had sex behind the bleachers, smoked pot in the principal's office, etc. TJ would likely be a major fail.

Can we close this thread now? PLEASE!!!

Isn't Madison one of the top high schools in Northern VA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is the Nathan Chen of high schools - all hype but doesn’t deliver in the end.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nathan-chen-says-screw-en-route-olympic-history-050738094.html

"He tried it. All six. He landed five. The other he needed to touch his hands to the ice. He was otherwise nearly flawless. The routine was astounding in the athletic ability it commanded and the courage it was based upon. This was the X Games coming to the skating hall.

The arena stood and roared. The judges scored it an absurd 215.08 — nine points higher than anyone in the free skate, including the eventual gold medalist. He astoundingly wound up finishing in fifth place, tops among Americans. Vincent Zhou finished sixth. Adam Rippon was 10th. It was a near impossible climb."

No medal. He comes home representing this country empty-handed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

stats deletes....

Embarrassing numbers for Madison.

Actually, it is not. TJ siphons of the much of the cream. Certainly, diluting the top 10% of every HS in FCPS. And yet, 22% of the students ended up at very respectable to top colleges. If I added the other VA state schools,

VCU was 609 Accepted, 190 attend;
Radford, 338, 84
ODU, 214, 38
Mary Washingtion, 414, 82
Longwood, 259, 67
JMU, 804, 236
GMU, 692, 189
CNU, 422, 82

And some of these students have GPAs that are under 3.0/would have been kicked out of TJ.

JMHS is about as good as you can get for a school with open admissions.

23% go to schools of VT or better; more
696 students/nearly 20% went to the top three state schools; You get a great education at any of those three schools.

This is good for an open enrollment HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ is the Nathan Chen of high schools - all hype but doesn’t deliver in the end.

I am on the side of thinking TJ isn't that important for college. That's just my opinion. I also don't advocate getting rid of it either, because it serves some kids well. Now to Nathan Chen. He is 18 years old! Basically still a kid. What is wrong with you? I applaud him for the hard work it too to make it to the OLYMPICS. Even before his long program performance, he had accomplished amazing things. His long program performance was outstanding. You are a part of what's wrong with our country. Let's kick an accomplished, hardworking teen while he's down. We are now only proud of those who win medals. No pride in those who go and respectfully represent our country but don't win. SMH.