Truck kills 30 in France

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh but we can do.more. Nidal Hassan was a known element. Orlando guy was a known element. Lets mitigate a bit more shall we? In Orlando thread, some people said catching these lone wolves was FBI entrapment. I can dig up that quote easily. We probably need to mitigate the view that proactive police work is entrapment (when someone says something hateful on social media for example circling closer) in order to further mitigate these lone wolf attacks. As to the organized group attacks - obviously surveillance, borders etc help to mitigate. People are being arrested non stop across Europe. Who knows what is being mitigated? Cooperation from the Muslim community would highly help with mitigation.

I'm not sure if it's our ineptitude, but we should figure that out stat. If people are on a watch list, that should mean something...and it should result in close scrutiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is some pure speculation on my part. I've noticed that in several recent attacks, the perpetrators were fairly important members of the terrorist cells. I believe one of the Brussels bombers was described as an important bomb maker and one of the Istanbul attackers was a high-level recruiter. I could be mistake because I'm going by memory and I haven't memorized all the details of these attacks, but I think this is correct. The truck today is said to contain bomb-making material and weapons. Maybe that was a sort of headquarters/weapons cache and, instead of using an apartment, the cell was working out of a truck? In that scenario, the bomb-making material and weapons were not intended to be used in today's attack. Rather, for whatever reason, the attacker decided it was no longer useful to maintain the weapons cache.

If I am correct about all of this -- and I admit I am likely wrong -- it would mean that ISIS is running out of cannon fodder and is being forced to rely on more valuable assets for attacks. If that is the case, I suspect the organization has almost depleted its resources. You don't have your bomb-maker blow himself up if you are hoping for him to make more bombs. Similarly, you don't destroy your weapons cache unless that cache is no longer needed.

doubtful

There are far too many cells scattered about to make this hopeful statement.

Killing pedestrians on a national holiday is symbolic - not any different from destroying the towers on 9-11. Destroying symbols hits the psyche. Furthermore, whether the truck was a Trojan Horse or not, it was a twisted (yet brilliant) move to drive through a crowd of happy people b/c it's an extremely RAW way to physically damage a body. Imagine the damage to the the psyche at this point.

There are trucks all over the place. Remember the Beltway Sniper? We were on high alert after that, fearing every white van that drove by.

What should France do now? have police check points for every truck now?

How much militarization is necessary? curfews, restricted freedoms, living in fear

And if France heads toward a police state, don't you think the "terrorists" (however they are defined) will have won?

Agreed.

9-11 made us afraid of planes.

Now we will do a double take on big trucks. Candidly, I already had been during my commute to/from dc everyday. So many opportunities for a big truck to do damage. I hate being stuck near one, but typically feel a sense of relief if I can see the driver and reassure myself that he doesn't look like a crazy terrorist.

What does a crazy terrorist look like?

I knew you would ask!

In my head, this is what allays my fear when stuck in traffic next to a big (obviously rented/not commercial) box truck on a bridge:

-a Latino, black or Asian driver immediately puts my mind at ease
-most white drivers out my mind at ease (unless they look crazy, twitchy or drive erratically...google white serial killers or American mass shooters...that will give you an idea of the crazy eyes white shooters have)

And I'll take the bait: you want me to say that I'm fearful of middle eastern looking men driving big (obviously rented/not commercial) box trucks when stuck in traffic on a bridge. Here you go: yes I am. I was before the incident in Nice, and I most certainly am now.

I'm not paralyzed with fear. I still drive to my job in the heart of DC everyday. But it's definitely something that crosses my mind when stuck in traffic on a bridge...just like when getting gas during the sniper attacks (which happened in my area). For the record, I was certain the sniper was a crazy white guy (but I was wrong).

I'm not a racist. I don't think Muslims are violent. But I do have an issue with radical Islam and the people who promote it. I can't interview the guy in the box truck next to me so I can't make a rational decision about the odds of him being a terrorist, so I'm limited to making an assessment purely based on impression. Flame away.

For the record, I'm a big supporter of see something, say something...and that's based purely on appearance and circumstance. Guess what? I've called the dc non emergency line a few times since 9-11, and twice I discovered that two situations I called about were connected to people who were apprehended. One was a Muslim immigrant from the south who was photographing landmarks and streets in dc. I called him in for taking pics near 15th and h. He was apprehended near the White House. His apartment contained tons of recon photos. The other related to a car with three middle eastern guys driving slowly up 16th with the guys in the passenger seat and backseat filming with camcorders discreetly out the window (I was in a higher SUV so I could see down in their car). What prompted me to call? Middle eastern guys doing something that I deemed sketchy. And it turns out (based on my contact at DHS) that I was right. Turns out other people called in, too.

Flame away. I couldn't care less.

While you are at it, keep a watch on the white racists who spew hatred and maybe you can spot a white supremacist terrorist like Dylann Roof or Christian Terririst like Robert Dear.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

"Violence begets violence" is not just a quaint aphorism. Or, as Gandhi is quoted as saying, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

If we don't break the cycle, we are destined to be stuck in it for a long time.

Okay let's welcome them into our county and give them free education and free healthcare to befriend them. Oh that's right France already did that and their children - second generation terrorists- continue to kill the French. They had it way better in France than back home regardless of how they view France. They didn't have free food, education, healthcare in their former countries. Germany reached out and welcomed a million refugees and still no good will is coming our way. They still want to kill us.

[Anonymous]

Did this guy in the mac truck do a lot of weird ranting on facebook before he drove that truck through the crowd? Did the 911 plane hijackers post hateful diatribes on social media before they boarded those planes?

I don't know that these terrorists always do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

"Violence begets violence" is not just a quaint aphorism. Or, as Gandhi is quoted as saying, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

If we don't break the cycle, we are destined to be stuck in it for a long time.

Okay let's welcome them into our county and give them free education and free healthcare to befriend them. Oh that's right France already did that and their children - second generation terrorists- continue to kill the French. They had it way better in France than back home regardless of how they view France. They didn't have free food, education, healthcare in their former countries. Germany reached out and welcomed a million refugees and still no good will is coming our way. They still want to kill us.

Sounds like you know nothing about France's history with immigrants, particularly Muslim ones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

"Violence begets violence" is not just a quaint aphorism. Or, as Gandhi is quoted as saying, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

If we don't break the cycle, we are destined to be stuck in it for a long time.

Okay let's welcome them into our county and give them free education and free healthcare to befriend them. Oh that's right France already did that and their children - second generation terrorists- continue to kill the French. They had it way better in France than back home regardless of how they view France. They didn't have free food, education, healthcare in their former countries. Germany reached out and welcomed a million refugees and still no good will is coming our way. They still want to kill us.

Sounds like you know nothing about France's history with immigrants, particularly Muslim ones

That they maintained a relationship with the population of former colonies by opening their doors and offering opportunity? That they put down vicious could in Africa on the reg?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did this guy in the mac truck do a lot of weird ranting on facebook before he drove that truck through the crowd? Did the 911 plane hijackers post hateful diatribes on social media before they boarded those planes?

I don't know that these terrorists always do that.

Why does it always have to be always? No one is always going to do something. You go after an array of behaviors and possibilities. He was according to reports known to police. There's a flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is some pure speculation on my part. I've noticed that in several recent attacks, the perpetrators were fairly important members of the terrorist cells. I believe one of the Brussels bombers was described as an important bomb maker and one of the Istanbul attackers was a high-level recruiter. I could be mistake because I'm going by memory and I haven't memorized all the details of these attacks, but I think this is correct. The truck today is said to contain bomb-making material and weapons. Maybe that was a sort of headquarters/weapons cache and, instead of using an apartment, the cell was working out of a truck? In that scenario, the bomb-making material and weapons were not intended to be used in today's attack. Rather, for whatever reason, the attacker decided it was no longer useful to maintain the weapons cache.

If I am correct about all of this -- and I admit I am likely wrong -- it would mean that ISIS is running out of cannon fodder and is being forced to rely on more valuable assets for attacks. If that is the case, I suspect the organization has almost depleted its resources. You don't have your bomb-maker blow himself up if you are hoping for him to make more bombs. Similarly, you don't destroy your weapons cache unless that cache is no longer needed.

doubtful

There are far too many cells scattered about to make this hopeful statement.

Killing pedestrians on a national holiday is symbolic - not any different from destroying the towers on 9-11. Destroying symbols hits the psyche. Furthermore, whether the truck was a Trojan Horse or not, it was a twisted (yet brilliant) move to drive through a crowd of happy people b/c it's an extremely RAW way to physically damage a body. Imagine the damage to the the psyche at this point.

There are trucks all over the place. Remember the Beltway Sniper? We were on high alert after that, fearing every white van that drove by.

What should France do now? have police check points for every truck now?

How much militarization is necessary? curfews, restricted freedoms, living in fear

And if France heads toward a police state, don't you think the "terrorists" (however they are defined) will have won?

Agreed.

9-11 made us afraid of planes.

Now we will do a double take on big trucks. Candidly, I already had been during my commute to/from dc everyday. So many opportunities for a big truck to do damage. I hate being stuck near one, but typically feel a sense of relief if I can see the driver and reassure myself that he doesn't look like a crazy terrorist.

What does a crazy terrorist look like?

I knew you would ask!

In my head, this is what allays my fear when stuck in traffic next to a big (obviously rented/not commercial) box truck on a bridge:

-a Latino, black or Asian driver immediately puts my mind at ease
-most white drivers out my mind at ease (unless they look crazy, twitchy or drive erratically...google white serial killers or American mass shooters...that will give you an idea of the crazy eyes white shooters have)

And I'll take the bait: you want me to say that I'm fearful of middle eastern looking men driving big (obviously rented/not commercial) box trucks when stuck in traffic on a bridge. Here you go: yes I am. I was before the incident in Nice, and I most certainly am now.

I'm not paralyzed with fear. I still drive to my job in the heart of DC everyday. But it's definitely something that crosses my mind when stuck in traffic on a bridge...just like when getting gas during the sniper attacks (which happened in my area). For the record, I was certain the sniper was a crazy white guy (but I was wrong).

I'm not a racist. I don't think Muslims are violent. But I do have an issue with radical Islam and the people who promote it. I can't interview the guy in the box truck next to me so I can't make a rational decision about the odds of him being a terrorist, so I'm limited to making an assessment purely based on impression. Flame away.

For the record, I'm a big supporter of see something, say something...and that's based purely on appearance and circumstance. Guess what? I've called the dc non emergency line a few times since 9-11, and twice I discovered that two situations I called about were connected to people who were apprehended. One was a Muslim immigrant from the south who was photographing landmarks and streets in dc. I called him in for taking pics near 15th and h. He was apprehended near the White House. His apartment contained tons of recon photos. The other related to a car with three middle eastern guys driving slowly up 16th with the guys in the passenger seat and backseat filming with camcorders discreetly out the window (I was in a higher SUV so I could see down in their car). What prompted me to call? Middle eastern guys doing something that I deemed sketchy. And it turns out (based on my contact at DHS) that I was right. Turns out other people called in, too.

Flame away. I couldn't care less.

While you are at it, keep a watch on the white racists who spew hatred and maybe you can spot a white supremacist terrorist like Dylann Roof or Christian Terririst like Robert Dear.

I believe the FBI does monitor white hate groups. If they start killing fifty people a week worldwide there would be an outcry if law enforcement didn't uo their tactics.

[Anonymous]

But we as a country can't even agree to deny guns to people on watch lists!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is some pure speculation on my part. I've noticed that in several recent attacks, the perpetrators were fairly important members of the terrorist cells. I believe one of the Brussels bombers was described as an important bomb maker and one of the Istanbul attackers was a high-level recruiter. I could be mistake because I'm going by memory and I haven't memorized all the details of these attacks, but I think this is correct. The truck today is said to contain bomb-making material and weapons. Maybe that was a sort of headquarters/weapons cache and, instead of using an apartment, the cell was working out of a truck? In that scenario, the bomb-making material and weapons were not intended to be used in today's attack. Rather, for whatever reason, the attacker decided it was no longer useful to maintain the weapons cache.

If I am correct about all of this -- and I admit I am likely wrong -- it would mean that ISIS is running out of cannon fodder and is being forced to rely on more valuable assets for attacks. If that is the case, I suspect the organization has almost depleted its resources. You don't have your bomb-maker blow himself up if you are hoping for him to make more bombs. Similarly, you don't destroy your weapons cache unless that cache is no longer needed.

doubtful

There are far too many cells scattered about to make this hopeful statement.

Killing pedestrians on a national holiday is symbolic - not any different from destroying the towers on 9-11. Destroying symbols hits the psyche. Furthermore, whether the truck was a Trojan Horse or not, it was a twisted (yet brilliant) move to drive through a crowd of happy people b/c it's an extremely RAW way to physically damage a body. Imagine the damage to the the psyche at this point.

There are trucks all over the place. Remember the Beltway Sniper? We were on high alert after that, fearing every white van that drove by.

What should France do now? have police check points for every truck now?

How much militarization is necessary? curfews, restricted freedoms, living in fear

And if France heads toward a police state, don't you think the "terrorists" (however they are defined) will have won?

Agreed.

9-11 made us afraid of planes.

Now we will do a double take on big trucks. Candidly, I already had been during my commute to/from dc everyday. So many opportunities for a big truck to do damage. I hate being stuck near one, but typically feel a sense of relief if I can see the driver and reassure myself that he doesn't look like a crazy terrorist.

What does a crazy terrorist look like?

I knew you would ask!

In my head, this is what allays my fear when stuck in traffic next to a big (obviously rented/not commercial) box truck on a bridge:

-a Latino, black or Asian driver immediately puts my mind at ease
-most white drivers out my mind at ease (unless they look crazy, twitchy or drive erratically...google white serial killers or American mass shooters...that will give you an idea of the crazy eyes white shooters have)

And I'll take the bait: you want me to say that I'm fearful of middle eastern looking men driving big (obviously rented/not commercial) box trucks when stuck in traffic on a bridge. Here you go: yes I am. I was before the incident in Nice, and I most certainly am now.

I'm not paralyzed with fear. I still drive to my job in the heart of DC everyday. But it's definitely something that crosses my mind when stuck in traffic on a bridge...just like when getting gas during the sniper attacks (which happened in my area). For the record, I was certain the sniper was a crazy white guy (but I was wrong).

I'm not a racist. I don't think Muslims are violent. But I do have an issue with radical Islam and the people who promote it. I can't interview the guy in the box truck next to me so I can't make a rational decision about the odds of him being a terrorist, so I'm limited to making an assessment purely based on impression. Flame away.

For the record, I'm a big supporter of see something, say something...and that's based purely on appearance and circumstance. Guess what? I've called the dc non emergency line a few times since 9-11, and twice I discovered that two situations I called about were connected to people who were apprehended. One was a Muslim immigrant from the south who was photographing landmarks and streets in dc. I called him in for taking pics near 15th and h. He was apprehended near the White House. His apartment contained tons of recon photos. The other related to a car with three middle eastern guys driving slowly up 16th with the guys in the passenger seat and backseat filming with camcorders discreetly out the window (I was in a higher SUV so I could see down in their car). What prompted me to call? Middle eastern guys doing something that I deemed sketchy. And it turns out (based on my contact at DHS) that I was right. Turns out other people called in, too.

Flame away. I couldn't care less.

While you are at it, keep a watch on the white racists who spew hatred and maybe you can spot a white supremacist terrorist like Dylann Roof or Christian Terririst like Robert Dear.

The US has such a list and monitors white supremacists and hate groups. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Algeria was better off as a French colony than an independent nation, any Algerian will tell you that. It's why they begged to get their colonial status back.

Look what that got.

Now this Tunisian decides to kill the best thing about his heritage - his relationship to Western Civilization.

It's getting difficult to trust anyone who can't agree on the profound and fundamental importance of a civilization which has been through the Enlightenment, and one which has not. The philosophical underpinnings to even belonging in the 21st century apparently are missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did this guy in the mac truck do a lot of weird ranting on facebook before he drove that truck through the crowd? Did the 911 plane hijackers post hateful diatribes on social media before they boarded those planes?

I don't know that these terrorists always do that.

Why does it always have to be always? No one is always going to do something. You go after an array of behaviors and possibilities. He was according to reports known to police. There's a flag.

No it doesn't have to be always. And, yes, I wish that there was a better way of determining who is/is not a legitimate threat. But right now there are so many "regular" people posting ugly rants on social media that I don't know that it is possible to haul them all in for questioning.

I wish people would be a little more mindful of what they say so that these terrorists would stand out a little bit more. As it is, the authorities are left trying to determine well is this a run of the mill cashew or one of those more threatening pecans...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did this guy in the mac truck do a lot of weird ranting on facebook before he drove that truck through the crowd? Did the 911 plane hijackers post hateful diatribes on social media before they boarded those planes?

I don't know that these terrorists always do that.

Why does it always have to be always? No one is always going to do something. You go after an array of behaviors and possibilities. He was according to reports known to police. There's a flag.

No it doesn't have to be always. And, yes, I wish that there was a better way of determining who is/is not a legitimate threat. But right now there are so many "regular" people posting ugly rants on social media that I don't know that it is possible to haul them all in for questioning.

I wish people would be a little more mindful of what they say so that these terrorists would stand out a little bit more. As it is, the authorities are left trying to determine well is this a run of the mill cashew or one of those more threatening pecans...

I think rants like nidal Hassan, the Orlando guy, the guys in VA stand out. If we need to update our laws to deal with people who rant like that so be it. There are many things in America that if you say it have criminal and /or other repercussions. And maybe we should have more - like it invites surveillance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did this guy in the mac truck do a lot of weird ranting on facebook before he drove that truck through the crowd? Did the 911 plane hijackers post hateful diatribes on social media before they boarded those planes?

I don't know that these terrorists always do that.

Why does it always have to be always? No one is always going to do something. You go after an array of behaviors and possibilities. He was according to reports known to police. There's a flag.

No it doesn't have to be always. And, yes, I wish that there was a better way of determining who is/is not a legitimate threat. But right now there are so many "regular" people posting ugly rants on social media that I don't know that it is possible to haul them all in for questioning.

I wish people would be a little more mindful of what they say so that these terrorists would stand out a little bit more. As it is, the authorities are left trying to determine well is this a run of the mill cashew or one of those more threatening pecans...

And I agree with you about being mindful. I also think the government should very clearly publish and publicize what websites you may not visit, what groups you may not provide material or verbalized support. Some of this is very obscure and you end up with dumb girls communicating with their fiances and providing material support they might have thought twice about, ect. These websites etc should also be disseminated to all parents to monitor their kids electronics.

[Anonymous]

Now it appears to be just another crazy person.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/nice-terror-attack-driver-who-killed-84-on-french-riviera-was-cr/