Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any research which shows the effect of smaller class sizes and instructional coaches on these schools with small class sizes?

I wonder if the studies of factory chickens vs. organic chickens are applicable. You know, when they compare chicken completely crammed into tiny cages with those with slightly more space.

Cramming so many kids into a classroom feels a little factory to me.

I'm not following. Buckell has an abundance of space, excessive numbers of teachers compared to other schools, and is still failing. It's in a neighborhood that was built to succeed as a middle class neighborhood with many single family homes. If any school should succeed it's this one, but it isn't. So do we throw more money at it or do we figure out a better way to teach to this neighborhood? I don't think these families or teachers want to be in a failing school either even if the class sizes are so low.

The homes surrounding Bucknell are small townhomes, crappy duplexes, and old single family houses that young yuppie families don't typically want to live in, and no one is flipping/renovating many in that area because it isn't a great area. It's a tough cycle to break.

Many neighborhoods that were once succeeding in the last century are not any longer.

The title one schools benefit from extra teachers because they have SO MUCH LESS human capital than the schools in the more stable neighborhoods - in the FARMS/ESOL schools, PTAs are almost nonexistent, parents are not clamoring to volunteer for things, in many cultures it just isn't common for parents to helicopter over their children's education, parents may want to help with homework, but they just can't, because they don't know the language and materials - I could go on and on about what I see.

But some of these are easy fixes. There is no school with less than 300 students that has an active PTA. It's just not possible especially with a population like you described. There are parents all over FCPS who speak a many different languages and not english and still seem to get by and even have kids who excel. Look at Greenbriar West and the exploding AAP population there. Or TJ which is filled with foreign students. I looked at the stats for this school. The amount of special ed kids is nil. These kids are not born by parents on drugs. The parents just don't speak another language. If they can't help with homework because they don't know the language and materials, how about educating the parents? Is that done? Are parents basically given short lesson plans in spanish to help their children? There are bilingual reading materials that could be given out for homework instead of asking parents to read with their child for 20 minutes. Monthly newsletters on what is being covered that month with suggestions on how to help your child can be distributed bilingually. I'm not an expert, but there are parents all over the world sending their children to schools where they don't speak the language and their kids are still succeeding.

TJ is not filled with foreign students, its filled with American Asians.

I can tell you with almost certainty that my Spanish-speaking neighbors do not speak a word of English to their children. They have no reason to learn English, as they work in industries entirely supported by Spanish speaking individuals, so they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any research which shows the effect of smaller class sizes and instructional coaches on these schools with small class sizes?

I wonder if the studies of factory chickens vs. organic chickens are applicable. You know, when they compare chicken completely crammed into tiny cages with those with slightly more space.

Cramming so many kids into a classroom feels a little factory to me.

I'm not following. Buckell has an abundance of space, excessive numbers of teachers compared to other schools, and is still failing. It's in a neighborhood that was built to succeed as a middle class neighborhood with many single family homes. If any school should succeed it's this one, but it isn't. So do we throw more money at it or do we figure out a better way to teach to this neighborhood? I don't think these families or teachers want to be in a failing school either even if the class sizes are so low.

The homes surrounding Bucknell are small townhomes, crappy duplexes, and old single family houses that young yuppie families don't typically want to live in, and no one is flipping/renovating many in that area because it isn't a great area. It's a tough cycle to break.

Many neighborhoods that were once succeeding in the last century are not any longer.

The title one schools benefit from extra teachers because they have SO MUCH LESS human capital than the schools in the more stable neighborhoods - in the FARMS/ESOL schools, PTAs are almost nonexistent, parents are not clamoring to volunteer for things, in many cultures it just isn't common for parents to helicopter over their children's education, parents may want to help with homework, but they just can't, because they don't know the language and materials - I could go on and on about what I see.

But some of these are easy fixes. There is no school with less than 300 students that has an active PTA. It's just not possible especially with a population like you described. There are parents all over FCPS who speak a many different languages and not english and still seem to get by and even have kids who excel. Look at Greenbriar West and the exploding AAP population there. Or TJ which is filled with foreign students. I looked at the stats for this school. The amount of special ed kids is nil. These kids are not born by parents on drugs. The parents just don't speak another language. If they can't help with homework because they don't know the language and materials, how about educating the parents? Is that done? Are parents basically given short lesson plans in spanish to help their children? There are bilingual reading materials that could be given out for homework instead of asking parents to read with their child for 20 minutes. Monthly newsletters on what is being covered that month with suggestions on how to help your child can be distributed bilingually. I'm not an expert, but there are parents all over the world sending their children to schools where they don't speak the language and their kids are still succeeding.

Our ES's school had a partner Title I school that we helped through the year. The PTAs organized several drives for their benefit. Do other schools have partner schools?

Yes, but it's more like we give them books and coats through the year. We don't organize teacher breakfasts or field trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder if the studies of factory chickens vs. organic chickens are applicable. You know, when they compare chicken completely crammed into tiny cages with those with slightly more space.

Cramming so many kids into a classroom feels a little factory to me.

Interesting point. I taught some pretty crowded first graders in my day (up to 35), I don't know of any research on that, but I can bet it does have an impact.

My mom passed away las spring and we found her school pictures of her first few years of teaching. She was 19 when she started (two year teachers college in the mid-west) and she taught kindergarten starting in 1949. We counted 37 children in the first picture and 33 in the next one. She played the piano for their music lessons, she did the art projects, she took them out to exercise. No aide, no specials, just her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any research which shows the effect of smaller class sizes and instructional coaches on these schools with small class sizes?

I wonder if the studies of factory chickens vs. organic chickens are applicable. You know, when they compare chicken completely crammed into tiny cages with those with slightly more space.

Cramming so many kids into a classroom feels a little factory to me.

I'm not following. Buckell has an abundance of space, excessive numbers of teachers compared to other schools, and is still failing. It's in a neighborhood that was built to succeed as a middle class neighborhood with many single family homes. If any school should succeed it's this one, but it isn't. So do we throw more money at it or do we figure out a better way to teach to this neighborhood? I don't think these families or teachers want to be in a failing school either even if the class sizes are so low.

The homes surrounding Bucknell are small townhomes, crappy duplexes, and old single family houses that young yuppie families don't typically want to live in, and no one is flipping/renovating many in that area because it isn't a great area. It's a tough cycle to break.

Many neighborhoods that were once succeeding in the last century are not any longer.

The title one schools benefit from extra teachers because they have SO MUCH LESS human capital than the schools in the more stable neighborhoods - in the FARMS/ESOL schools, PTAs are almost nonexistent, parents are not clamoring to volunteer for things, in many cultures it just isn't common for parents to helicopter over their children's education, parents may want to help with homework, but they just can't, because they don't know the language and materials - I could go on and on about what I see.

But some of these are easy fixes. There is no school with less than 300 students that has an active PTA. It's just not possible especially with a population like you described. There are parents all over FCPS who speak a many different languages and not english and still seem to get by and even have kids who excel. Look at Greenbriar West and the exploding AAP population there. Or TJ which is filled with foreign students. I looked at the stats for this school. The amount of special ed kids is nil. These kids are not born by parents on drugs. The parents just don't speak another language. If they can't help with homework because they don't know the language and materials, how about educating the parents? Is that done? Are parents basically given short lesson plans in spanish to help their children? There are bilingual reading materials that could be given out for homework instead of asking parents to read with their child for 20 minutes. Monthly newsletters on what is being covered that month with suggestions on how to help your child can be distributed bilingually. I'm not an expert, but there are parents all over the world sending their children to schools where they don't speak the language and their kids are still succeeding.

TJ is not filled with foreign students, its filled with American Asians.

I can tell you with almost certainty that my Spanish-speaking neighbors do not speak a word of English to their children. They have no reason to learn English, as they work in industries entirely supported by Spanish speaking individuals, so they don't.

Do they have to though? My husband has parents who still don't speak English. They came over as orphans of world war II with only a third grade education. They had several children who attended english schools with children also speaking the same language as they did and are all doing well, speak Englishwell, are all married, and have good paying jobs. They cared about educating their children and the older children helped the younger children. They weren't even given free breakfasts and both parents worked and still do work. I hear many of these moms don't even work out of the house. What do they do that they can't review reading comprehension with their kids in spanish for 20 minutes a day to get their SOL scores up? Here are some books $15 each. Have them help out. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bilingual+reading+comprehension&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abilingual+reading+comprehension

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any research which shows the effect of smaller class sizes and instructional coaches on these schools with small class sizes?

I wonder if the studies of factory chickens vs. organic chickens are applicable. You know, when they compare chicken completely crammed into tiny cages with those with slightly more space.

Cramming so many kids into a classroom feels a little factory to me.

I'm not following. Buckell has an abundance of space, excessive numbers of teachers compared to other schools, and is still failing. It's in a neighborhood that was built to succeed as a middle class neighborhood with many single family homes. If any school should succeed it's this one, but it isn't. So do we throw more money at it or do we figure out a better way to teach to this neighborhood? I don't think these families or teachers want to be in a failing school either even if the class sizes are so low.

The homes surrounding Bucknell are small townhomes, crappy duplexes, and old single family houses that young yuppie families don't typically want to live in, and no one is flipping/renovating many in that area because it isn't a great area. It's a tough cycle to break.

Many neighborhoods that were once succeeding in the last century are not any longer.

The title one schools benefit from extra teachers because they have SO MUCH LESS human capital than the schools in the more stable neighborhoods - in the FARMS/ESOL schools, PTAs are almost nonexistent, parents are not clamoring to volunteer for things, in many cultures it just isn't common for parents to helicopter over their children's education, parents may want to help with homework, but they just can't, because they don't know the language and materials - I could go on and on about what I see.

But some of these are easy fixes. There is no school with less than 300 students that has an active PTA. It's just not possible especially with a population like you described. There are parents all over FCPS who speak a many different languages and not english and still seem to get by and even have kids who excel. Look at Greenbriar West and the exploding AAP population there. Or TJ which is filled with foreign students. I looked at the stats for this school. The amount of special ed kids is nil. These kids are not born by parents on drugs. The parents just don't speak another language. If they can't help with homework because they don't know the language and materials, how about educating the parents? Is that done? Are parents basically given short lesson plans in spanish to help their children? There are bilingual reading materials that could be given out for homework instead of asking parents to read with their child for 20 minutes. Monthly newsletters on what is being covered that month with suggestions on how to help your child can be distributed bilingually. I'm not an expert, but there are parents all over the world sending their children to schools where they don't speak the language and their kids are still succeeding.

TJ is not filled with foreign students, its filled with American Asians.

I can tell you with almost certainty that my Spanish-speaking neighbors do not speak a word of English to their children. They have no reason to learn English, as they work in industries entirely supported by Spanish speaking individuals, so they don't.

Do they have to though? My husband has parents who still don't speak English. They came over as orphans of world war II with only a third grade education. They had several children who attended english schools with children also speaking the same language as they did and are all doing well, speak Englishwell, are all married, and have good paying jobs. They cared about educating their children and the older children helped the younger children. They weren't even given free breakfasts and both parents worked and still do work. I hear many of these moms don't even work out of the house. What do they do that they can't review reading comprehension with their kids in spanish for 20 minutes a day to get their SOL scores up? Here are some books $15 each. Have them help out. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bilingual+reading+comprehension&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abilingual+reading+comprehension

I wish I could transfer that attitude upon them. I really do. Some kids do just fine in that setting, and some don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
TJ is not filled with foreign students, its filled with American Asians.

I can tell you with almost certainty that my Spanish-speaking neighbors do not speak a word of English to their children. They have no reason to learn English, as they work in industries entirely supported by Spanish speaking individuals, so they don't.

Judging from this fall's list of NMSFs, I think you're generally right, but there are also Asian kids who immigrated with their parents. If their parents wanted the best education for their kids, however, they made sure their kids were learning English fast. Virtually no kids at TJ are characterized as having limited English proficiency.

http://commweb.fcps.edu/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=2605

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any research which shows the effect of smaller class sizes and instructional coaches on these schools with small class sizes?

I wonder if the studies of factory chickens vs. organic chickens are applicable. You know, when they compare chicken completely crammed into tiny cages with those with slightly more space.

Cramming so many kids into a classroom feels a little factory to me.

I'm not following. Buckell has an abundance of space, excessive numbers of teachers compared to other schools, and is still failing. It's in a neighborhood that was built to succeed as a middle class neighborhood with many single family homes. If any school should succeed it's this one, but it isn't. So do we throw more money at it or do we figure out a better way to teach to this neighborhood? I don't think these families or teachers want to be in a failing school either even if the class sizes are so low.

The homes surrounding Bucknell are small townhomes, crappy duplexes, and old single family houses that young yuppie families don't typically want to live in, and no one is flipping/renovating many in that area because it isn't a great area. It's a tough cycle to break.

Many neighborhoods that were once succeeding in the last century are not any longer.

The title one schools benefit from extra teachers because they have SO MUCH LESS human capital than the schools in the more stable neighborhoods - in the FARMS/ESOL schools, PTAs are almost nonexistent, parents are not clamoring to volunteer for things, in many cultures it just isn't common for parents to helicopter over their children's education, parents may want to help with homework, but they just can't, because they don't know the language and materials - I could go on and on about what I see.

But some of these are easy fixes. There is no school with less than 300 students that has an active PTA. It's just not possible especially with a population like you described. There are parents all over FCPS who speak a many different languages and not english and still seem to get by and even have kids who excel. Look at Greenbriar West and the exploding AAP population there. Or TJ which is filled with foreign students. I looked at the stats for this school. The amount of special ed kids is nil. These kids are not born by parents on drugs. The parents just don't speak another language. If they can't help with homework because they don't know the language and materials, how about educating the parents? Is that done? Are parents basically given short lesson plans in spanish to help their children? There are bilingual reading materials that could be given out for homework instead of asking parents to read with their child for 20 minutes. Monthly newsletters on what is being covered that month with suggestions on how to help your child can be distributed bilingually. I'm not an expert, but there are parents all over the world sending their children to schools where they don't speak the language and their kids are still succeeding.

TJ is not filled with foreign students, its filled with American Asians.

I can tell you with almost certainty that my Spanish-speaking neighbors do not speak a word of English to their children. They have no reason to learn English, as they work in industries entirely supported by Spanish speaking individuals, so they don't.

Do they have to though? My husband has parents who still don't speak English. They came over as orphans of world war II with only a third grade education. They had several children who attended english schools with children also speaking the same language as they did and are all doing well, speak Englishwell, are all married, and have good paying jobs. They cared about educating their children and the older children helped the younger children. They weren't even given free breakfasts and both parents worked and still do work. I hear many of these moms don't even work out of the house. What do they do that they can't review reading comprehension with their kids in spanish for 20 minutes a day to get their SOL scores up? Here are some books $15 each. Have them help out. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bilingual+reading+comprehension&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abilingual+reading+comprehension

I wish I could transfer that attitude upon them. I really do. Some kids do just fine in that setting, and some don't.

It's not just about you and your kids. Your's and FCPS's inability to work with these families to help them understand what is needed for their children to succeed and give them the tools to help their children themselves is causing other children and teachers to have undue stress during the school day.

[Anonymous]

It's not just about you and your kids. Your's and FCPS's inability to work with these families to help them understand what is needed for their children to succeed and give them the tools to help their children themselves is causing other children and teachers to have undue stress during the school day.

I'm not going to chastise my neighbors. Perhaps FCPS should mandate parental involvement?

[Anonymous]

You do understand that a lot of parents who don't speak English aren't literate in their OWN language, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just about you and your kids. Your's and FCPS's inability to work with these families to help them understand what is needed for their children to succeed and give them the tools to help their children themselves is causing other children and teachers to have undue stress during the school day.

I'm not going to chastise my neighbors. Perhaps FCPS should mandate parental involvement?

Are you just acting dumb? At our school the teacher gives weekly assignment homework and often sheets with instructions on how to help your child with a specific task. Yours could be more often and in English and Spanish with a cover sheet asking parents to work with their child particularly on topics A,B, and C with some short instructions on how to do so. Ideas for what to do with them on the weekends to support their learning. Do you not do this already? What is being done to facilitate the parents helping their children? I don't get it. People act like we should welcome immigrants and help them as much as possible, but then act like they're dumb as rocks. I'm sure these parents want to help their children. They just need some guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that a lot of parents who don't speak English aren't literate in their OWN language, right?

Hispanics are not the first families to come to America who were illiterate in their own language. People find a way to help their children.

[Anonymous]

Also at our school if a child is failing, a conference is held and additional materials are given out or requested that the parent buy to work with their child afterschool. This even happens with the ESOL and FARM students. Is this something that title one school parents aren't asked to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just about you and your kids. Your's and FCPS's inability to work with these families to help them understand what is needed for their children to succeed and give them the tools to help their children themselves is causing other children and teachers to have undue stress during the school day.

I'm not going to chastise my neighbors. Perhaps FCPS should mandate parental involvement?

Are you just acting dumb? At our school the teacher gives weekly assignment homework and often sheets with instructions on how to help your child with a specific task. Yours could be more often and in English and Spanish with a cover sheet asking parents to work with their child particularly on topics A,B, and C with some short instructions on how to do so. Ideas for what to do with them on the weekends to support their learning. Do you not do this already? What is being done to facilitate the parents helping their children? I don't get it. People act like we should welcome immigrants and help them as much as possible, but then act like they're dumb as rocks. I'm sure these parents want to help their children. They just need some guidance.

I help MY child with everything that she needs perfectly well, thank you very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do understand that a lot of parents who don't speak English aren't literate in their OWN language, right?

Hispanics are not the first families to come to America who were illiterate in their own language. People find a way to help their children.

Programs for this are available, but constantly in danger of being cut. I visited one in falls church with a local politician that I worked for at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just about you and your kids. Your's and FCPS's inability to work with these families to help them understand what is needed for their children to succeed and give them the tools to help their children themselves is causing other children and teachers to have undue stress during the school day.

I'm not going to chastise my neighbors. Perhaps FCPS should mandate parental involvement?

Are you just acting dumb? At our school the teacher gives weekly assignment homework and often sheets with instructions on how to help your child with a specific task. Yours could be more often and in English and Spanish with a cover sheet asking parents to work with their child particularly on topics A,B, and C with some short instructions on how to do so. Ideas for what to do with them on the weekends to support their learning. Do you not do this already? What is being done to facilitate the parents helping their children? I don't get it. People act like we should welcome immigrants and help them as much as possible, but then act like they're dumb as rocks. I'm sure these parents want to help their children. They just need some guidance.

I help MY child with everything that she needs perfectly well, thank you very much.

If you are a parent why would you chastise your neighbors? You can help them of course if you speak their language. If you are a teacher, then yes, I think you should get involved in helping these parents help their children be successful whether they ask for help or not. You don't chastise them, you help them. I don't understand why an entire program needs to be developed especially for a school with 16 kids in a class with a teacher and assistant in each one. There is no program at our school. Just a teacher, some paper, and an email address. If the majority of these parents drop off and pick up their kids, you can even talk to them at the beginning or end of the day.