Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.

pretty sure there is. State law and all that.

They have to have a gifted program. It's state law.
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/gifted_regulations.pdf

[Anonymous]

Here is the thing: I learn things and move on to the next. If it was just hard work, then someone who grinds through assignments to know what I learned in 15 minutes would be as good. In the real world, my ability is rewarded. I earn more money and get the more interesting projects.

In school, I was supposed to drill and reveiw like everyone else. I knew how to do the math problems. But instead of giving me harder problems, they gave me more problems. So I stopped doing them. I almost fell through the cracks, and could easily have "broken bad". Instead, my capability was noticed late (in HS), and I was allowed to flurish.

GT/AAP is for kids like I was: the ones that get it without the drill and practice. Give them meaningful assignments to keep them interested and allow them to grow, and to develop good habbits.

I did not have good work habbits in HS (2.4 GPA); they improved in College (3.1 GPA; 3.8 in science and math) and were good in grad school (3.9 gpa). Professionally, I never stop working....am always thinking about what I need to do.

In HS, I would get A's on the tests, but zeros for homework. That would average to 100+100+100+0=75=C.


You talk about Peyton Manning -- he is gifted and hard working. He was probably always challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:why not?

Giftedness is nonsense but the raw performance score is material...whether you are gifted or not, whether you prep or work hard. Just ask Peyton with all the pedigree. Performance is what counts.

but you don't need a special program for that in a public school. these performing kids will do fine on their own. better to devote resources to kids who struggle at either the high or low end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing: I learn things and move on to the next. If it was just hard work, then someone who grinds through assignments to know what I learned in 15 minutes would be as good. In the real world, my ability is rewarded. I earn more money and get the more interesting projects.

In school, I was supposed to drill and reveiw like everyone else. I knew how to do the math problems. But instead of giving me harder problems, they gave me more problems. So I stopped doing them. I almost fell through the cracks, and could easily have "broken bad". Instead, my capability was noticed late (in HS), and I was allowed to flurish.

GT/AAP is for kids like I was: the ones that get it without the drill and practice. Give them meaningful assignments to keep them interested and allow them to grow, and to develop good habbits.

I did not have good work habbits in HS (2.4 GPA); they improved in College (3.1 GPA; 3.8 in science and math) and were good in grad school (3.9 gpa). Professionally, I never stop working....am always thinking about what I need to do.

In HS, I would get A's on the tests, but zeros for homework. That would average to 100+100+100+0=75=C.


You talk about Peyton Manning -- he is gifted and hard working. He was probably always challenged.

it is a good post, but... you are not going to get into college anymore with a 2.4. The explosion of certain groups that have a prepping culture has changed everything. Just the way it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing: I learn things and move on to the next. If it was just hard work, then someone who grinds through assignments to know what I learned in 15 minutes would be as good. In the real world, my ability is rewarded. I earn more money and get the more interesting projects.

In school, I was supposed to drill and reveiw like everyone else. I knew how to do the math problems. But instead of giving me harder problems, they gave me more problems. So I stopped doing them. I almost fell through the cracks, and could easily have "broken bad". Instead, my capability was noticed late (in HS), and I was allowed to flurish.

GT/AAP is for kids like I was: the ones that get it without the drill and practice. Give them meaningful assignments to keep them interested and allow them to grow, and to develop good habbits.

I did not have good work habbits in HS (2.4 GPA); they improved in College (3.1 GPA; 3.8 in science and math) and were good in grad school (3.9 gpa). Professionally, I never stop working....am always thinking about what I need to do.

In HS, I would get A's on the tests, but zeros for homework. That would average to 100+100+100+0=75=C.


You talk about Peyton Manning -- he is gifted and hard working. He was probably always challenged.

it is a good post, but... you are not going to get into college anymore with a 2.4. The explosion of certain groups that have a prepping culture has changed everything. Just the way it is.

2.4 and 800 math SATs will get you in somewhere....then you transfer to a good school (that is what I did). Or, you can go to NoVA, and get a 3.0 or above and transfer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.

Absolutely agree. Or, at the very least, raise the benchmark needed to get into AAP, so that it is only for the truly "gifted," those who need special accomodations. This current version of AAP has strayed so far from its original intent. The program is really a sham compared to what it was several years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.

pretty sure there is. State law and all that.

They have to have a gifted program. It's state law.
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/gifted_regulations.pdf

I see what you mean. Slightly different language than when my son went through grade school. If you include in gifted all kids performing above grade level, that can be any smart kid whose exposed to advanced material at an early age. What a joke and perpetuation of a winner-take-all society. Will be interesting to see how the widening education gap comes back to haunt us as a society. Maybe these brainy kids put on their special track will be able to come up with a solution. No wait, they won't, because they've been in their little bubble and won't be able to understand their differently educated peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why not?

Giftedness is nonsense but the raw performance score is material...whether you are gifted or not, whether you prep or work hard. Just ask Peyton with all the pedigree. Performance is what counts.

but you don't need a special program for that in a public school. these performing kids will do fine on their own. better to devote resources to kids who struggle at either the high or low end.

There are kids that get is very quickly and kids that have to work really hard. The kids that get it can move on to other things, while the other kids need to move at a slower pace. I know this, as I see something once, and usually grasp it. I did not realize everyone was not that way until I was working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.

pretty sure there is. State law and all that.

They have to have a gifted program. It's state law.
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/gifted_regulations.pdf

Right: for GIFTED learners, not just average high-achievers, which is what AAP has become.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Weird Peyton Prepper Guy: You might just want to send your kids to ACE (Academy of Christian Education) in Reston where they can join the CogAt Prep after school club. I put a link to this school in a recent post which was subsequently removed. Can't really understand why your posts aren't being removed as you are so obviously a troll.

What does this have to do with the ethics of hard work and preparation espoused by individuals your kids (gifted or not) look up to like Peyton and Phelps?

Not sure I understand your question -- or anything you say, for that matter -- but you might make your point more clearly if you would SHUT THE HELL UP about Peyton and Phelps. Surely you can think of other analogies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Weird Peyton Prepper Guy: You might just want to send your kids to ACE (Academy of Christian Education) in Reston where they can join the CogAt Prep after school club. I put a link to this school in a recent post which was subsequently removed. Can't really understand why your posts aren't being removed as you are so obviously a troll.

What does this have to do with the ethics of hard work and preparation espoused by individuals your kids (gifted or not) look up to like Peyton and Phelps?

Not sure I understand your question -- or anything you say, for that matter -- but you might make your point more clearly if you would SHUT THE HELL UP about Peyton and Phelps. Surely you can think of other analogies?

or an analogy that actually works in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.

pretty sure there is. State law and all that.

They have to have a gifted program. It's state law.
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/gifted_regulations.pdf

Right: for GIFTED learners, not just average high-achievers, which is what AAP has become.

+100

[Anonymous]

Yes they changed to a different version after Mercer's prep materials were found to be so similar to the CogAt questions. But Riverside sued Mercer for infringement and lost, so now FCPS knows it cannot have a test that is free from being figued out - not even the current version.

Riverside "lost" that case because they could not show school systems that had stopped using their services because of the Mercer materials. The decision did not state that Mercer had not infringed on Riverside's work, only that money damages from loss of customers could not be shown. If a large school system such as FCPS had stopped using these tests because of prepping, that would have placed the case in a different light. FCPS chose to work with the company to create a new version of the test rather than dropping it completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the kids at least are learning some reading comprehension. They could practice by reading the first post on a thread and figuring out the subject.

I do hope this the Peyton poster is not teaching reading comprehension, because if s/he is, there will be a whole cohort of kids out there who won't be able to read and understand the point of a paragraph.

Also, the kids will be wondering why their teacher has such a crush on this Peyton guy.

[Anonymous]

...In school, I was supposed to drill and reveiw like everyone else. I knew how to do the math problems. But instead of giving me harder problems, they gave me more problems. So I stopped doing them. I almost fell through the cracks, and could easily have "broken bad". Instead, my capability was noticed late (in HS), and I was allowed to flurish.

GT/AAP is for kids like I was: the ones that get it without the drill and practice. Give them meaningful assignments to keep them interested and allow them to grow, and to develop good habbits.

I did not have good work habbits in HS (2.4 GPA); they improved in College (3.1 GPA; 3.8 in science and math) and were good in grad school (3.9 gpa). Professionally, I never stop working....am always thinking about what I need to do.

Me too, I must be gifted. I got a 2.5 average and did poorly on drill and kill homework. I want that special gifted program, Harvard, too. Can I arrange a similar program for my gifted c-average kids? They too have poor work habits. Guess what high performers like Peyton and Phelps...you don't qualify for the Invitational. It's for average performers with poor work habits that are truly gifted with raw talent.

Hey, I need another hit of that smoke.