Consensus world view of TOP 5/6 UK University Rankings (Prestige/Research)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, great opportunity to get in one those schools for any kid here that would be a t20-t50 admit.

I agree. This is how we are looking at it at our household with our 3 kids (two Juniors and one Freshman). Following the OP’s list:

1. Oxford/Cambridge - If not accepted to any IVY or MIT/Stanford, then these two.
2. Imperial/LSE - Same as above, but add Berkeley and a few others.
3. UCL - If not accepted to any t20, then UCL.
4. Edinburgh/King’s/St Andrews - If best US acceptance is in between any t25-t50, we would pick Kings/Edinburgh/St Andrews
5. Warwick/Bristol/Exeter/Bath - If best US school is t-50 and up, that these would be prioritized.

Obviously this is just a general guidelines that we have discussed internally. We would clearly focus on each subject and fit. but the general idea stays. US schools are way too expensive to pass up these cheaper UK options.

This is great. We are deciding now and this is how we are looking at it too after talking to multiple professors, recruiters, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

Yes, I know what the variables are. Entry standards for undergrads are not a measure of an economics department, nor its “prestige” (the comment I had responded to). Graduate prospects and student satisfaction are similarly measures of career services and student experience, not the quality of the economics department. Note that St. Andrew’s scores quite low on research quality, which is the only measure of the economics department itself, and even then the score probably overstates it.

I’m not particularly interested in debating this further with you. I have an economics degree from LSE and work in this space. As indicated on the previous page, there is lots else to consider here, plenty of it good, but these departments being major players in the econ world is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Those let’s see Europe graduates can be quite pretentious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

Yes, I know what the variables are. Entry standards for undergrads are not a measure of an economics department, nor its “prestige” (the comment I had responded to). Graduate prospects and student satisfaction are similarly measures of career services and student experience, not the quality of the economics department. Note that St. Andrew’s scores quite low on research quality, which is the only measure of the economics department itself, and even then the score probably overstates it.

I’m not particularly interested in debating this further with you. I have an economics degree from LSE and work in this space. As indicated on the previous page, there is lots else to consider here, plenty of it good, but these departments being major players in the econ world is not one of them.

It really doesnt matter what you and your masters degree from LSE think.

The only thing that matters is what employers think. And considering graduate prospects are very good, the focus on the undergraduate education (ala Notre Dame) is much more important than research production….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those let’s see Europe graduates can be quite pretentious.

It’s not pretentious to understand what schools have strong departments in a given field. This is the “College and University” forum after all.

There was a good back and forth on this yesterday where we agreed. But then the usual knee-jerk defensive people had to show up today, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

Yes, I know what the variables are. Entry standards for undergrads are not a measure of an economics department, nor its “prestige” (the comment I had responded to). Graduate prospects and student satisfaction are similarly measures of career services and student experience, not the quality of the economics department. Note that St. Andrew’s scores quite low on research quality, which is the only measure of the economics department itself, and even then the score probably overstates it.

I’m not particularly interested in debating this further with you. I have an economics degree from LSE and work in this space. As indicated on the previous page, there is lots else to consider here, plenty of it good, but these departments being major players in the econ world is not one of them.

It really doesnt matter what you and your masters degree from LSE think.

The only thing that matters is what employers think. And considering graduate prospects are very good, the focus on the undergraduate education (ala Notre Dame) is much more important than research production….

This whole discussion—initiated by another poster—was about publishing and the prestige of econ departments. Maybe actually read and comprehend the comments before spouting off about stuff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

Yes, I know what the variables are. Entry standards for undergrads are not a measure of an economics department, nor its “prestige” (the comment I had responded to). Graduate prospects and student satisfaction are similarly measures of career services and student experience, not the quality of the economics department. Note that St. Andrew’s scores quite low on research quality, which is the only measure of the economics department itself, and even then the score probably overstates it.

I’m not particularly interested in debating this further with you. I have an economics degree from LSE and work in this space. As indicated on the previous page, there is lots else to consider here, plenty of it good, but these departments being major players in the econ world is not one of them.

It really doesnt matter what you and your masters degree from LSE think.

The only thing that matters is what employers think. And considering graduate prospects are very good, the focus on the undergraduate education (ala Notre Dame) is much more important than research production….

This whole discussion—initiated by another poster—was about publishing and the prestige of econ departments. Maybe actually read and comprehend the comments before spouting off about stuff?

I’m the poster from yesterday that agreed with you. Clearly this PP didnt follow our conversation.
Prestige of Econ depts is more inline with our previous discussion.

The PP does make an interesting point about graduate prospects which I didnt even look at before. For undergrads that want to go to industry this is obviously a key metric. But if your goal is to move towards a PhD, then the prestige of the dept in the subject is much more important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

Yes, I know what the variables are. Entry standards for undergrads are not a measure of an economics department, nor its “prestige” (the comment I had responded to). Graduate prospects and student satisfaction are similarly measures of career services and student experience, not the quality of the economics department. Note that St. Andrew’s scores quite low on research quality, which is the only measure of the economics department itself, and even then the score probably overstates it.

I’m not particularly interested in debating this further with you. I have an economics degree from LSE and work in this space. As indicated on the previous page, there is lots else to consider here, plenty of it good, but these departments being major players in the econ world is not one of them.

It really doesnt matter what you and your masters degree from LSE think.

The only thing that matters is what employers think. And considering graduate prospects are very good, the focus on the undergraduate education (ala Notre Dame) is much more important than research production….

This whole discussion—initiated by another poster—was about publishing and the prestige of econ departments. Maybe actually read and comprehend the comments before spouting off about stuff?

I’m the poster from yesterday that agreed with you. Clearly this PP didnt follow our conversation.
Prestige of Econ depts is more inline with our previous discussion.

The PP does make an interesting point about graduate prospects which I didnt even look at before. For undergrads that want to go to industry this is obviously a key metric. But if your goal is to move towards a PhD, then the prestige of the dept in the subject is much more important.

Agree again!

Need more reasonable people like this on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the other thread, W&M Econ dept doesnt publish much. Not that it matters. But based purely on prestige of Econ depts, St Andrews focus on Macro and Finance is top notch. W&M is focused elsewhere. It depends on what DC wants to do with an Econ degree. I don think any body here can answer that question for you without more context into the reason for wanting to study Econ, what Econ areas does your DC want to focus on. Plans post undergrad? Masters/Phd research route? Or Business route? Internationally or in the US? Hard to simply say one or the other without any perspective other than what we know about both depts….

Ehhh I agree with the questions but St Andrews is not really a heavy hitter in econ either. A lot of this choice just boils down to location.

Seems like St Andrews Econ program is in good company - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

Yes, we discussed that on the previous page, that isn’t a ranking of econ departments so much as a ranking of undergrad experience by subject studied.

You are wrong. Juts look at the columns when you expand to full table:

These are the variables:

Enter Standards
Research Quality
2 x Graduate Prospect measurements
Student Satisfaction

On Entry Standards, only behind Cambridge and ahead of LSE and Oxford…..

Yes, I know what the variables are. Entry standards for undergrads are not a measure of an economics department, nor its “prestige” (the comment I had responded to). Graduate prospects and student satisfaction are similarly measures of career services and student experience, not the quality of the economics department. Note that St. Andrew’s scores quite low on research quality, which is the only measure of the economics department itself, and even then the score probably overstates it.

I’m not particularly interested in debating this further with you. I have an economics degree from LSE and work in this space. As indicated on the previous page, there is lots else to consider here, plenty of it good, but these departments being major players in the econ world is not one of them.

It really doesnt matter what you and your masters degree from LSE think.

The only thing that matters is what employers think. And considering graduate prospects are very good, the focus on the undergraduate education (ala Notre Dame) is much more important than research production….

This whole discussion—initiated by another poster—was about publishing and the prestige of econ departments. Maybe actually read and comprehend the comments before spouting off about stuff?

I’m the poster from yesterday that agreed with you. Clearly this PP didnt follow our conversation.
Prestige of Econ depts is more inline with our previous discussion.

The PP does make an interesting point about graduate prospects which I didnt even look at before. For undergrads that want to go to industry this is obviously a key metric. But if your goal is to move towards a PhD, then the prestige of the dept in the subject is much more important.

Agree again!

Need more reasonable people like this on this forum.

[Anonymous]

17 pages is 16 too many for me to read. Apologies if this has already been pointed out:

There can be a cost/time savings that deliver the “opportunity benefit”. (Is there a phrase for the opposite of opportunity cost?)

I imagine that many of these schools are three rather than four year programs. One less year of tuition, and one more year to earn income.

Our son is taking the following path at U Melbourne, which confers a three year bachelor degree, similar to the UK schools.

The following is tuition only. Living expenses are similar in desirable locations, and should be added.

Total three years tuition: AU$160,000, or approx US$100,000. This *includes* a one semester exchange at Wharton.

Compared to $300k four years tuition only at a T25-100 US school? No comparison.

Difference in fees is $200k, and add to that the gained year of earned income approx $80k.

The value is there, and I really like the way the OP framed the status evaluation. We only considered the top commerce/business school in Oz bc we don’t think he will go to grad school, and he wanted a recognizable name. For students who are heading to grad school, the less prestigious but excellent unis listed by the OP are great choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, great opportunity to get in one those schools for any kid here that would be a t20-t50 admit.

I agree. This is how we are looking at it at our household with our 3 kids (two Juniors and one Freshman). Following the OP’s list:

1. Oxford/Cambridge - If not accepted to any IVY or MIT/Stanford, then these two.
2. Imperial/LSE - Same as above, but add Berkeley and a few others.
3. UCL - If not accepted to any t20, then UCL.
4. Edinburgh/King’s/St Andrews - If best US acceptance is in between any t25-t50, we would pick Kings/Edinburgh/Sta
5. Warwick/Bristol/Exeter/Bath - If best US school is t-50 and up, that these would be prioritized.

Obviously this is just a general guidelines that we have discussed internally. We would clearly focus on each subject and fit. but the general idea stays. US schools are way too expensive to pass up these cheaper UK options.

This is pretty much how my son’s counselor compared it.

He is making a decision now between two t35’s and two of the ones listed on #4.

[Anonymous]

What is these UK schools deadlines to submit a deposit?