Consensus world view of TOP 5/6 UK University Rankings (Prestige/Research)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

Not really, if they have serious money it is not going to be any different from their ski trips to Austria and their safari's in Africa. Money has reach and for a lot of kids this will just be par for the course.

It's not like an inner city kid from Detroit is applying to Oxford ever. THAT would be something to admire.

There’s a huge difference between living in another country and a 1-2 week trip. The former requires much more independence, self-confidence, etc. It’s not something just any 18 year old can handle.

Yeah but I don't think you get it, actual wealthy kids are spending 6 weeks in Tanzania or an entire summer in the Meditteranean, not going on cheap 2 week vacations.

No, actually you don’t get it. Living somewhere is entirely different than a vacation, even an extended one. And this is probably even more true for wealthy kids who have had a lot of support and hand holding, including on their long vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

Not really, if they have serious money it is not going to be any different from their ski trips to Austria and their safari's in Africa. Money has reach and for a lot of kids this will just be par for the course.

It's not like an inner city kid from Detroit is applying to Oxford ever. THAT would be something to admire.

There’s a huge difference between living in another country and a 1-2 week trip. The former requires much more independence, self-confidence, etc. It’s not something just any 18 year old can handle.

Yeah but I don't think you get it, actual wealthy kids are spending 6 weeks in Tanzania or an entire summer in the Meditteranean, not going on cheap 2 week vacations.

No, actually you don’t get it. Living somewhere is entirely different than a vacation, even an extended one. And this is probably even more true for wealthy kids who have had a lot of support and hand holding, including on their long vacations.

Wealthy kids don't grow up in just one place usually. You can keep pretending you know, but Bethesda is very low on the wealth scale, especially for the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

Not really, if they have serious money it is not going to be any different from their ski trips to Austria and their safari's in Africa. Money has reach and for a lot of kids this will just be par for the course.

It's not like an inner city kid from Detroit is applying to Oxford ever. THAT would be something to admire.

There’s a huge difference between living in another country and a 1-2 week trip. The former requires much more independence, self-confidence, etc. It’s not something just any 18 year old can handle.

Yeah but I don't think you get it, actual wealthy kids are spending 6 weeks in Tanzania or an entire summer in the Meditteranean, not going on cheap 2 week vacations.

No, actually you don’t get it. Living somewhere is entirely different than a vacation, even an extended one. And this is probably even more true for wealthy kids who have had a lot of support and hand holding, including on their long vacations.

Wealthy kids don't grow up in just one place usually. You can keep pretending you know, but Bethesda is very low on the wealth scale, especially for the US.

Lol, okay. Just doubling down on this absurd point and continuing to shift it. Never mind.

[Anonymous]

Just ignore the bitter poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

’
100%. I have been involved in recruiting for some of the top multinational firms in the world. On average, the young professionals with international study experience (not just a semester in Rome) were best hires were without a doubt.

[Anonymous]

My best hires were kids who worked at McD’s or Chik-fil-a at 15 1/2 years old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My best hires were kids who worked at McD’s or Chik-fil-a at 15 1/2 years old

Kids working fast food jobs or going overseas to university are not mutually exclusive groups. Both already have or develop initiative, confidence, problem solving and responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My best hires were kids who worked at McD’s or Chik-fil-a at 15 1/2 years old

Kids working fast food jobs or going overseas to university are not mutually exclusive groups. Both already have or develop initiative, confidence, problem solving and responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Uh, students do display those same skills at US institutions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Agree we will disagree. I can’t take seriously a ranking that puts Tsinghua University ahead of Chicago and Princeton (QS), or Fudan University at the same level as King’s (an insult to King’s) or Karolinska Institute ahead of LSE (both THE).

That’s not to say King’s or Edinburgh are bad universities—on the contrary, they are quite good. But you seem to be arguing that there is no limit to how high they can be considered, and on that we will definitely agree to disagree.

I can’t tell, is your argument nationalist or straight racist?

Neither, those schools just aren’t as good. Sorry. There are plenty of great schools in Asia but those aren’t it and they aren’t at that high of a level.

But definitely call anyone you disagree with nationalist or racist! Very normal, reasoned behavior.

What do u know about Tsinghua University mr know it all? The ridiculous american bias coming from your comments are ridiculous.
Tsinghua University‘S acceptance rate is less than 1%…. Xi Jinping, Hu Jintao and Chen Jining would have disagreed w you…

You basically saying that the 2nd largest economy in the world and its best university cant possibly compete with our best here???
Either you are typical uniformed american or you live with your head buried in the sand….. u might want to get out some more….

Funny response but you make a good point….hard to argue that countries with advanced technologies and an economy like China that will likely surpass ours in the future do not have god universities that compete with ours at the highest level. Specially on STEM fields. That is a ludicrous argument.

It's just a few short decades ago that China killed or "re-educated" all of its scholars. Then it took another few decades before kids could leave China and attend higher education in other countries. They now have a high number of PhD students in the west, who can bring technologies back to China (not to mention corporate espionage). Sure, maybe they have professors who attended university in the west in the 90s and 00s as professors, but the country doesn't have a long, uninterrupted history of top scholarship. Engineering = trade school. Acceptance rate has to do with lots of kids applying to few options. That's just history, not racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh, students do display those same skills at US institutions.

I never said they dont. For the Jobs I have placed (pick any top 20 US firm in different industries and I have placed more than 1000 people there over 20 years). There is no comparison between the avg American entry level job seeker that studied abroad vs the ones that studied here.
You might not like it, but over 20 years, these kids on avg have been better hires. Of course you have amazing kids here. I have placed them all. But there is no question that these kids have been more successful with the firms I have placed for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, students do display those same skills at US institutions.

I never said they dont. For the Jobs I have placed (pick any top 20 US firm in different industries and I have placed more than 1000 people there over 20 years). There is no comparison between the avg American entry level job seeker that studied abroad vs the ones that studied here.
You might not like it, but over 20 years, these kids on avg have been better hires. Of course you have amazing kids here. I have placed them all. But there is no question that these kids have been more successful with the firms I have placed for.

I also do a lot of hiring and generally agree with this. Kids who have chosen to live abroad for a significant period of time have demonstrated independence and flexibility. Not to say that there aren’t terrible hires who have studied abroad and great students who study domestically, but it is one positive signal about their resilience, which is something that tends to be lacking in the younger generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

Not really, if they have serious money it is not going to be any different from their ski trips to Austria and their safari's in Africa. Money has reach and for a lot of kids this will just be par for the course.

It's not like an inner city kid from Detroit is applying to Oxford ever. THAT would be something to admire.

There’s a huge difference between living in another country and a 1-2 week trip. The former requires much more independence, self-confidence, etc. It’s not something just any 18 year old can handle.

Yeah but I don't think you get it, actual wealthy kids are spending 6 weeks in Tanzania or an entire summer in the Meditteranean, not going on cheap 2 week vacations.

Oh please. Both of my kids went to school in the UK. One at St Andrews and one at Trinity. NONE of them had friends spending the whole summer in the Mediterranean or 6 week in Tanzania. You just seem bitter for some reason.

Trinity is not in the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

Not really, if they have serious money it is not going to be any different from their ski trips to Austria and their safari's in Africa. Money has reach and for a lot of kids this will just be par for the course.

It's not like an inner city kid from Detroit is applying to Oxford ever. THAT would be something to admire.

There’s a huge difference between living in another country and a 1-2 week trip. The former requires much more independence, self-confidence, etc. It’s not something just any 18 year old can handle.

Yeah but I don't think you get it, actual wealthy kids are spending 6 weeks in Tanzania or an entire summer in the Meditteranean, not going on cheap 2 week vacations.

Oh please. Both of my kids went to school in the UK. One at St Andrews and one at Trinity. NONE of them had friends spending the whole summer in the Mediterranean or 6 week in Tanzania. You just seem bitter for some reason.

Trinity is not in the UK.

You know what I meant. No need to be a smart ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a self selective environment. Even between those who decide to apply to to UK/EU universties. Some are just doing it because a few UK school are in the common app, so why not. Then there are the ones who are serious about exploring university life outside the US. These kids are not like the avg kid applying to American schools.

It takes a different kid to want to not only leave home, but be in another continent for 3-4 years studying in a completely different environment. This is why a lot of those kids end up succeeding at whatever they are doing. On avg these kids are independent go getters. Maybe not the HYPSM types since most of these have no reason to go away.

You gotta appreciate the desire and independent thinking of an American kid wanting to leave the US to go to school in Europe.

Not really, if they have serious money it is not going to be any different from their ski trips to Austria and their safari's in Africa. Money has reach and for a lot of kids this will just be par for the course.

It's not like an inner city kid from Detroit is applying to Oxford ever. THAT would be something to admire.

There’s a huge difference between living in another country and a 1-2 week trip. The former requires much more independence, self-confidence, etc. It’s not something just any 18 year old can handle.

Yeah but I don't think you get it, actual wealthy kids are spending 6 weeks in Tanzania or an entire summer in the Meditteranean, not going on cheap 2 week vacations.

Oh please. Both of my kids went to school in the UK. One at St Andrews and one at Trinity. NONE of them had friends spending the whole summer in the Mediterranean or 6 week in Tanzania. You just seem bitter for some reason.

Trinity is not in the UK.

You know what I meant. No need to be a smart ass.

nope. get it right. Rep of Ireland is not in the UK. you know better. Your American kid at Trinity tell Irish people s/he is in the UK? I bet not.