What happened to W&M, Brandeis, Tulane, Pepperdine and others..from historically T50 to outside looking in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UC Merced is equivalent to UMichigan.

The students admitted to UC Merced are of the same caliber as those admitted to UMichigan. I'm sure if you taught a class divided equally between UC Merced students and UMichigan students you would not see a difference.

Likewise the quality of undergraduate instruction is exactly the same.

Institutionally, the same resources available to UMichigan are available to UC Merced.

This isn't to pick on UMichigan (you can substitute any other large research university like UVA, UNC, Purdue, UMass, VA Tech, Texas, Iowa, etc).

No, these schools are not all interchangeable in terms of their student populations. I teach at a suburban high school. The students who are applying to UM, UVA and UT, are very different from the students applying to UIowa. And for the record, I love UIowa.

US News #s before social mobility:
UVA: 25
Michigan: 28
Austin: 56
Purdue: 56
VTech: 69
Merced: 165

The current US News is the reflection of the school TODAY! Who cares what the ranking was from 2 or 5 or 10 years ago. US News says UC Merced is roughly equivalent to those schools, by roughly equivalent, about in the same band. US News is used as a bible by a huge percentage of people. UC Merced is on par with those schools if you believe in US News.

US News overhauled its entire methodology. You are either a troll or unable to understand cause and effect.

DP. I think the point is that 99% of Americans simply don't care as obsessively as you clearly do about the "methodology." USNWR will continue to be the primary college ranking source in the U.S. for most people. Continue to seethe.

Because of US News's continuous decline in relevancy, Niche is now the #1 most used rankings system in the U.S.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5810fea5e58c62bd729121cc/t/66df2c8af65e4f679f507a20/1725901962868/studentPOLL+September+2024+Rankings.pdf

niche rankings are garbage, especially from the 30s on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is barely "t50", somehow beat out by Rutgers. W&M has exactly the same entering class stats and %s as UVA yet is beat out by Virginia Tech on US News. Michigan State (no offense to Michigan State) is somehow t70 now. Did the average student at Rutgers suddenly become much smarter than the average Wake student? No. Is the average Virginia Tech student smarter than the average student at Tulane? No.

So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look.

OMG. This has got to be one of the most smug, clueless posts I've ever read. I'm so sorry you and your favored schools have been left behind.
NP

DP
You are genuinely the corniest poster on this site - always the laughing emojis and the know it all sarcasm.

So... you actually think all the posts that use laughing emojis are... the same poster? This explains so much.

No, but this person has a very distinct messaging style.

Oh, please. You're not omniscient and you have no idea who is who here.

Keep going with the smugness

And you as well. Your posts absolutely reek of arrogance, especially this sentence:

"So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look."

Actually, it reeks of stupidity.

+100
Par for the course among DCUM's finest.

Because it is so apt and precisely correct many other posters agreed with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is barely "t50", somehow beat out by Rutgers. W&M has exactly the same entering class stats and %s as UVA yet is beat out by Virginia Tech on US News. Michigan State (no offense to Michigan State) is somehow t70 now. Did the average student at Rutgers suddenly become much smarter than the average Wake student? No. Is the average Virginia Tech student smarter than the average student at Tulane? No.

So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look.

OMG. This has got to be one of the most smug, clueless posts I've ever read. I'm so sorry you and your favored schools have been left behind.
NP

DP
You are genuinely the corniest poster on this site - always the laughing emojis and the know it all sarcasm.

So... you actually think all the posts that use laughing emojis are... the same poster? This explains so much.

No, but this person has a very distinct messaging style.

Oh, please. You're not omniscient and you have no idea who is who here.

Keep going with the smugness

And you as well. Your posts absolutely reek of arrogance, especially this sentence:

"So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look."

Not the post this above message is directed at.

You can clearly see from the timestamps of recent posts on this thread that there are multiple posters and certainly have been multiple posters throughout the day. Only recently have you begun filling this thread with your rhetoric.

"Rhetoric"? And what do you call your posts? You may or may not be the above quoted poster, but you're certainly just as arrogant. And btw, if you're the same person who keeps calling every person here the poster who mentioned their kid's "150+" ranked school, I've reported you. You're talking to different people.

You clearly have severe issues. Holding you in the light.

Bless your heart.

Know that you are held deeply in the light and that even when you are blinded by rage and illogicality your inner light remains undimmed. I know the day will come when you are able to accept the fact that the University of Virginia is the superior institution of the United States. I am with you in spirit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is barely "t50", somehow beat out by Rutgers. W&M has exactly the same entering class stats and %s as UVA yet is beat out by Virginia Tech on US News. Michigan State (no offense to Michigan State) is somehow t70 now. Did the average student at Rutgers suddenly become much smarter than the average Wake student? No. Is the average Virginia Tech student smarter than the average student at Tulane? No.

So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look.

OMG. This has got to be one of the most smug, clueless posts I've ever read. I'm so sorry you and your favored schools have been left behind.
NP

DP
You are genuinely the corniest poster on this site - always the laughing emojis and the know it all sarcasm.

So... you actually think all the posts that use laughing emojis are... the same poster? This explains so much.

No, but this person has a very distinct messaging style.

Oh, please. You're not omniscient and you have no idea who is who here.

Keep going with the smugness

And you as well. Your posts absolutely reek of arrogance, especially this sentence:

"So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look."

Not the post this above message is directed at.

You can clearly see from the timestamps of recent posts on this thread that there are multiple posters and certainly have been multiple posters throughout the day. Only recently have you begun filling this thread with your rhetoric.

"Rhetoric"? And what do you call your posts? You may or may not be the above quoted poster, but you're certainly just as arrogant. And btw, if you're the same person who keeps calling every person here the poster who mentioned their kid's "150+" ranked school, I've reported you. You're talking to different people.

You clearly have severe issues. Holding you in the light.

Bless your heart.

Know that you are held deeply in the light and that even when you are blinded by rage and illogicality your inner light remains undimmed. I know the day will come when you are able to accept the fact that the University of Virginia is the superior institution of the United States. I am with you in spirit.

DP. Why do you keep bringing up UVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UC Merced is equivalent to UMichigan.

The students admitted to UC Merced are of the same caliber as those admitted to UMichigan. I'm sure if you taught a class divided equally between UC Merced students and UMichigan students you would not see a difference.

Likewise the quality of undergraduate instruction is exactly the same.

Institutionally, the same resources available to UMichigan are available to UC Merced.

This isn't to pick on UMichigan (you can substitute any other large research university like UVA, UNC, Purdue, UMass, VA Tech, Texas, Iowa, etc).

No, these schools are not all interchangeable in terms of their student populations. I teach at a suburban high school. The students who are applying to UM, UVA and UT, are very different from the students applying to UIowa. And for the record, I love UIowa.

US News #s before social mobility:
UVA: 25
Michigan: 28
Austin: 56
Purdue: 56
VTech: 69
Merced: 165

The current US News is the reflection of the school TODAY! Who cares what the ranking was from 2 or 5 or 10 years ago. US News says UC Merced is roughly equivalent to those schools, by roughly equivalent, about in the same band. US News is used as a bible by a huge percentage of people. UC Merced is on par with those schools if you believe in US News.

US News overhauled its entire methodology. You are either a troll or unable to understand cause and effect.

DP. I think the point is that 99% of Americans simply don't care as obsessively as you clearly do about the "methodology." USNWR will continue to be the primary college ranking source in the U.S. for most people. Continue to seethe.

Because of US News's continuous decline in relevancy, Niche is now the #1 most used rankings system in the U.S.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5810fea5e58c62bd729121cc/t/66df2c8af65e4f679f507a20/1725901962868/studentPOLL+September+2024+Rankings.pdf

niche rankings are garbage, especially from the 30s on.

Their liberal arts college ranking is surprisingly well balanced and good, but their university rankings has a lot of puzzling choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is barely "t50", somehow beat out by Rutgers. W&M has exactly the same entering class stats and %s as UVA yet is beat out by Virginia Tech on US News. Michigan State (no offense to Michigan State) is somehow t70 now. Did the average student at Rutgers suddenly become much smarter than the average Wake student? No. Is the average Virginia Tech student smarter than the average student at Tulane? No.

So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look.

OMG. This has got to be one of the most smug, clueless posts I've ever read. I'm so sorry you and your favored schools have been left behind.
NP

DP
You are genuinely the corniest poster on this site - always the laughing emojis and the know it all sarcasm.

So... you actually think all the posts that use laughing emojis are... the same poster? This explains so much.

No, but this person has a very distinct messaging style.

Oh, please. You're not omniscient and you have no idea who is who here.

Keep going with the smugness

And you as well. Your posts absolutely reek of arrogance, especially this sentence:

"So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look."

Actually, it reeks of stupidity.

+100
Par for the course among DCUM's finest.

Because it is so apt and precisely correct many other posters agreed with it.

Wow... the delusion is really strong with this one ^^.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is barely "t50", somehow beat out by Rutgers. W&M has exactly the same entering class stats and %s as UVA yet is beat out by Virginia Tech on US News. Michigan State (no offense to Michigan State) is somehow t70 now. Did the average student at Rutgers suddenly become much smarter than the average Wake student? No. Is the average Virginia Tech student smarter than the average student at Tulane? No.

So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look.

OMG. This has got to be one of the most smug, clueless posts I've ever read. I'm so sorry you and your favored schools have been left behind.
NP

DP
You are genuinely the corniest poster on this site - always the laughing emojis and the know it all sarcasm.

So... you actually think all the posts that use laughing emojis are... the same poster? This explains so much.

No, but this person has a very distinct messaging style.

Oh, please. You're not omniscient and you have no idea who is who here.

Keep going with the smugness

And you as well. Your posts absolutely reek of arrogance, especially this sentence:

"So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look."

Not the post this above message is directed at.

You can clearly see from the timestamps of recent posts on this thread that there are multiple posters and certainly have been multiple posters throughout the day. Only recently have you begun filling this thread with your rhetoric.

"Rhetoric"? And what do you call your posts? You may or may not be the above quoted poster, but you're certainly just as arrogant. And btw, if you're the same person who keeps calling every person here the poster who mentioned their kid's "150+" ranked school, I've reported you. You're talking to different people.

You clearly have severe issues. Holding you in the light.

Bless your heart.

Know that you are held deeply in the light and that even when you are blinded by rage and illogicality your inner light remains undimmed. I know the day will come when you are able to accept the fact that the University of Virginia is the superior institution of the United States. I am with you in spirit.

DP. Why do you keep bringing up UVA?

UVA was salaciously attacked earlier in the thread by the PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is barely "t50", somehow beat out by Rutgers. W&M has exactly the same entering class stats and %s as UVA yet is beat out by Virginia Tech on US News. Michigan State (no offense to Michigan State) is somehow t70 now. Did the average student at Rutgers suddenly become much smarter than the average Wake student? No. Is the average Virginia Tech student smarter than the average student at Tulane? No.

So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look.

OMG. This has got to be one of the most smug, clueless posts I've ever read. I'm so sorry you and your favored schools have been left behind.
NP

DP
You are genuinely the corniest poster on this site - always the laughing emojis and the know it all sarcasm.

So... you actually think all the posts that use laughing emojis are... the same poster? This explains so much.

No, but this person has a very distinct messaging style.

Oh, please. You're not omniscient and you have no idea who is who here.

Keep going with the smugness

And you as well. Your posts absolutely reek of arrogance, especially this sentence:

"So-called "t50" schools with ranks that now reflect their ability to be large, pell-grant numbers, etc. will always be on the outside looking into the group of schools whose intellectual character remains clear to those who make any effort at all to look."

Not the post this above message is directed at.

You can clearly see from the timestamps of recent posts on this thread that there are multiple posters and certainly have been multiple posters throughout the day. Only recently have you begun filling this thread with your rhetoric.

"Rhetoric"? And what do you call your posts? You may or may not be the above quoted poster, but you're certainly just as arrogant. And btw, if you're the same person who keeps calling every person here the poster who mentioned their kid's "150+" ranked school, I've reported you. You're talking to different people.

You clearly have severe issues. Holding you in the light.

Bless your heart.

Know that you are held deeply in the light and that even when you are blinded by rage and illogicality your inner light remains undimmed. I know the day will come when you are able to accept the fact that the University of Virginia is the superior institution of the United States. I am with you in spirit.

DP. Why do you keep bringing up UVA?

UVA was salaciously attacked earlier in the thread by the PP.

No one cares. And direct your wrath to the person who "salaciously attacked" it. That was not me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, US News no longer cares if colleges offer small classes. It does now care about number of Pell Grant recipients. Those are fine priorities. If they are yours, use current U News as your guide. If they are not, go back 3-4 years and follow those rankings.

This 1000%. While I am very happy if my kid's school supports the Pell Grant Recipients and other lower income students on campus (it's best for our society if we help ensure everyone gets a college degree that wants one), it doesn't affect my kid's education at all. However, taking majority of courses with only 25-40 students has a major impact on my kid's education. It means better access to professors as well (profs know you when you actually have discussions during classes and when the Prof actually has office hours as well rather than 10+ TAs holding various office hours.)

DP. Which school has "10+ TAs holding various office hours? My DC attends a large school and knows all of her professors, and they know her by name as well. I love the fiction that is being created on this thread.

I have a kid at college ranked #150++ a huge state school - all my kids classes have fewer than 30 students except one large seminar required for all honors college students. My kids middle school had bigger classes.

+1
I also have a kid a large state university and the majority of classes are between 20-40 students. Very, very few are the large auditorium-style classes. I think people who are SLAC boosters have no actual idea of what life is like at a large school.

It’s kind of absurd, really. But a good reminder that a lot of the info here is out of touch with reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, US News no longer cares if colleges offer small classes. It does now care about number of Pell Grant recipients. Those are fine priorities. If they are yours, use current U News as your guide. If they are not, go back 3-4 years and follow those rankings.

This 1000%. While I am very happy if my kid's school supports the Pell Grant Recipients and other lower income students on campus (it's best for our society if we help ensure everyone gets a college degree that wants one), it doesn't affect my kid's education at all. However, taking majority of courses with only 25-40 students has a major impact on my kid's education. It means better access to professors as well (profs know you when you actually have discussions during classes and when the Prof actually has office hours as well rather than 10+ TAs holding various office hours.)

DP. Which school has "10+ TAs holding various office hours? My DC attends a large school and knows all of her professors, and they know her by name as well. I love the fiction that is being created on this thread.

I have a kid at college ranked #150++ a huge state school - all my kids classes have fewer than 30 students except one large seminar required for all honors college students. My kids middle school had bigger classes.

+1
I also have a kid a large state university and the majority of classes are between 20-40 students. Very, very few are the large auditorium-style classes. I think people who are SLAC boosters have no actual idea of what life is like at a large school.

It’s kind of absurd, really. But a good reminder that a lot of the info here is out of touch with reality.

I couldn't agree more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, US News no longer cares if colleges offer small classes. It does now care about number of Pell Grant recipients. Those are fine priorities. If they are yours, use current U News as your guide. If they are not, go back 3-4 years and follow those rankings.

This 1000%. While I am very happy if my kid's school supports the Pell Grant Recipients and other lower income students on campus (it's best for our society if we help ensure everyone gets a college degree that wants one), it doesn't affect my kid's education at all. However, taking majority of courses with only 25-40 students has a major impact on my kid's education. It means better access to professors as well (profs know you when you actually have discussions during classes and when the Prof actually has office hours as well rather than 10+ TAs holding various office hours.)

DP. Which school has "10+ TAs holding various office hours? My DC attends a large school and knows all of her professors, and they know her by name as well. I love the fiction that is being created on this thread.

I have a kid at college ranked #150++ a huge state school - all my kids classes have fewer than 30 students except one large seminar required for all honors college students. My kids middle school had bigger classes.

+1
I also have a kid a large state university and the majority of classes are between 20-40 students. Very, very few are the large auditorium-style classes. I think people who are SLAC boosters have no actual idea of what life is like at a large school.

It’s kind of absurd, really. But a good reminder that a lot of the info here is out of touch with reality.

Most people interested in a lac want 0 large auditorium classes to begin. There is a substantial difference in support for 10 students in a class than 100, a small-medium class at a university.

[Anonymous]

Mambojambo2024 wrote:As a mom that has not really been paying attention to current rankings until very recently …..what happened to schools that used to constantly be ranked in the t35-t50 now completely out of the t50 the last 2 years?

Avg rank from 2015-2023….even if you went back 25 years, it wouldn’t deviate much from the avg below….until now.

William & Mary = 35
Brandeis = 37
Tulane = 42
Pepperdine = 49

It is simply that USNWR changed their ranking criteria in a way that was disadvantageous to these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UC Merced is equivalent to UMichigan.

The students admitted to UC Merced are of the same caliber as those admitted to UMichigan. I'm sure if you taught a class divided equally between UC Merced students and UMichigan students you would not see a difference.

Likewise the quality of undergraduate instruction is exactly the same.

Institutionally, the same resources available to UMichigan are available to UC Merced.

This isn't to pick on UMichigan (you can substitute any other large research university like UVA, UNC, Purdue, UMass, VA Tech, Texas, Iowa, etc).

No, these schools are not all interchangeable in terms of their student populations. I teach at a suburban high school. The students who are applying to UM, UVA and UT, are very different from the students applying to UIowa. And for the record, I love UIowa.

US News #s before social mobility:
UVA: 25
Michigan: 28
Austin: 56
Purdue: 56
VTech: 69
Merced: 165

The current US News is the reflection of the school TODAY! Who cares what the ranking was from 2 or 5 or 10 years ago. US News says UC Merced is roughly equivalent to those schools, by roughly equivalent, about in the same band. US News is used as a bible by a huge percentage of people. UC Merced is on par with those schools if you believe in US News.

US News overhauled its entire methodology. You are either a troll or unable to understand cause and effect.

DP. I think the point is that 99% of Americans simply don't care as obsessively as you clearly do about the "methodology." USNWR will continue to be the primary college ranking source in the U.S. for most people. Continue to seethe.

Because of US News's continuous decline in relevancy, Niche is now the #1 most used rankings system in the U.S.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5810fea5e58c62bd729121cc/t/66df2c8af65e4f679f507a20/1725901962868/studentPOLL+September+2024+Rankings.pdf

Never heard of this polling company, so I did a little research. How funny! Look at all these universities that are their CLIENTS! I'm sure they're not biased at all:

https://www.artsci.com/clients/higher-education

I took a look at the Niche list. I think the first 50 or so are very reasonable. That list makes a lot more sense than US News.

The list of top public universities is very similar to US News. Also, the methodology is not all that different from US News except that US News doesn't use student reviews.

About This List
The Top Public Universities ranking is based on rigorous analysis of academic, admissions, financial, and student life data from the U.S. Department of Education along for millions of reviews from students and alumni. The ranking compares over 500 public colleges and state universities. This year's rankings have introduced an Economic Mobility Index, which measures the economic status change for low-income students. ACT/SAT scores have been removed from rankings to reflect a general de-emphasis on test scores in the college admissions process.

NP.

The part speaks exclusively to the “DEI bump” given to schools who buy into DEI dogma.

The curtain on DEI is being pulled back and we can increasingly expect a return to sanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mom wakes up in the year 2024 and realizes things have changed.

Social equity trumps academic excellence.

Ask UC Merced with SAT average of 1080 pre-covid now is a supposed top 50 school according to US News.

Thank you US News for becoming even more irrelevant.

Brilliant summation!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The popular professors in large classes are creating shows for the students: https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2024/12/outlandish-skits-bring-flair-to-one-of-browns-largest-cs-courses
Top private universities like Brown are cutting course sections and increasing class sizes. I don't know what average class size means, when the popular majors have mostly large (to very large) lecture courses.

It’s really embarrassing that an elite institution not only thinks this is okay, but actively promotes this to its students, wasting time and tuition dollars. This is also not good teaching; it’s a mockery of education. I’m hoping this ridiculous show doesn’t spread to DS’s ivy

Agree nothing like this at my kid’s ivy