Is the future of higher ed in the South?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I do think UF is on par w UNC and UVA. I do not think UGA is…yet.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I do think UF is on par w UNC and UVA. I do not think UGA is…yet.

Tenured faculty leaving Florida public universities in droves due to crazy governor's policies and no academic freedom. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?

Very interesting. I hadn't thought of that, thanks for pointing it out. The South gets a bad rap for other bigotry, but the curtains are being pulled back on the North.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it doesn’t matter what USNWR thinks either. The biggest single factor in their rankings is the subjective “peer reputation” which is based almost entirely on where schools were ranked in the past. It’s a feedback loop. The whole of them should be thrown out the window.

So opinion of the PP you’re responding to DOES matter just as much - to PP. Which is the only on that should matter to PP because pretending rankings are “true” or meaningful is folly.

USNWR is influential, so their rankings matter. I agree with you that this is unfortunate, but they are still influential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?

The only reason anti semitism isn’t “baked in” in the south though is because there aren’t nearly as many Jewish people in the south, not because southerners aren’t as anti semitic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I do think UF is on par w UNC and UVA. I do not think UGA is…yet.

Is the average UF grad educated as well and as capable as the UNC or UVA grad. That should be the key question. I don't think USNWR is really making any effort to answer that question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?

The only reason anti semitism isn’t “baked in” in the south though is because there aren’t nearly as many Jewish people in the south, not because southerners aren’t as anti semitic.

Yeah, just wait until PP's kid tries rushing certain fraternities or sororities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I would guess EVERY single kid would choose UNC or UVA.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?

The only reason anti semitism isn’t “baked in” in the south though is because there aren’t nearly as many Jewish people in the south, not because southerners aren’t as anti semitic.

Ha ha. Nope. Lots of Jews in the South, especially in cities. But the teaching at the Southern schools isn't as centered on decolonialist antifa psychosis as it is in the NE, CA. I'm an academic and I am very aware of where they are inculcating Franz Fanon & the like. Anti-semites are everywhere, but the academy is far more rational in the South.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I do think UF is on par w UNC and UVA. I do not think UGA is…yet.

Tenured faculty leaving Florida public universities in droves due to crazy governor's policies and no academic freedom. Good luck.

Cite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a vacation it's an education...remember your kid will be just like the people they surround themselves with everyday. So hang out with vapid people who decide to attend a school because of the weather not the quality of the education and you will get a self indulgent adult back. Have your kid attend a school where academics and scholarly achievement are celebrated more than the football team that graduates half their kids and you well get back a critical thinking adult. What's important to learn in college is critical thinking and social norms. Getting wasted everyday in the sun is not necessarily the goal after all it doesn't look good after 25!

It's kind of presumptuous to assume students going to college south of the Mason Dixon line are more likely to get wasted than their peers in the colder states. I suspect there are many students at Wisconsin, Dartmouth, Colgate, Michigan, Cornell, Syracuse etc etc that aren't exactly teetotalers. And I'm also fairly confident that students at Duke and Georgia Tech are pretty studious despite having competitive sports teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?

Very interesting. I hadn't thought of that, thanks for pointing it out. The South gets a bad rap for other bigotry, but the curtains are being pulled back on the North.

Y’all don’t seem to get it. The south gets “a bad rap for bigotry” against black people for a good reason: because there's a lot of f#%in history of bigotry and racism in the south. Where in the US are the places w the highest concentration of black people and where are most of the country’s majority black cities? In the south. Why doesn’t the south also have a reputation for anti-semitism? Because there aren’t very many Jewish people in the south. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately, racism exists everywhere. Anti semitism exists everywhere. It’s not that southerners are more accepting of Jewish people than northerners just like it’s not as though northerners aren’t racist against black people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I do think UF is on par w UNC and UVA. I do not think UGA is…yet.

Tenured faculty leaving Florida public universities in droves due to crazy governor's policies and no academic freedom. Good luck.

Cite?

I'm not the PP, but it's been all over the news.
Why Faculty Members are Fleeing Florida
https://www.chronicle.com/article/why-faculty-members-are-fleeing-florida#:~:text=The%20University%20of%20Florida%20saw,percent%20from%20the%20prior%20year.
The University of Florida saw a 20-percent increase in tenured and tenure-track faculty resignations (391 total) from 2021. At Florida State, 136 faculty members resigned in 2022, up 28 percent from the prior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I do think UF is on par w UNC and UVA. I do not think UGA is…yet.

Tenured faculty leaving Florida public universities in droves due to crazy governor's policies and no academic freedom. Good luck.

Cite?

I'm not the PP, but it's been all over the news.
Why Faculty Members are Fleeing Florida
https://www.chronicle.com/article/why-faculty-members-are-fleeing-florida#:~:text=The%20University%20of%20Florida%20saw,percent%20from%20the%20prior%20year.
The University of Florida saw a 20-percent increase in tenured and tenure-track faculty resignations (391 total) from 2021. At Florida State, 136 faculty members resigned in 2022, up 28 percent from the prior year.

Between the poster insisting that people in the South are taller, and this one insisting that Floridian professors aren't resigning, my hypothesis is that people boosting Southern universities aren't big on reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?

The only reason anti semitism isn’t “baked in” in the south though is because there aren’t nearly as many Jewish people in the south, not because southerners aren’t as anti semitic.

+1

Prepare to be asked frequently where you go to church.