Is the future of higher ed in the South?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Schools get hot for a lot of reasons...successful sports teams, targeted regional recruiting, etc. Popularity does not equate to being well respected. Just because tens of thousands of kids apply to a school and drive the acceptance rate down, it doesn't immediately make employers regard the degree as more valuable. I think Georgia and Florida are popular schools. I do not view them in the same category of schools like UVA and UNC.

And you know more than USNWR? Sorry but it honestly doesn't matter what you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

[Anonymous]

Well it doesn’t matter what USNWR thinks either. The biggest single factor in their rankings is the subjective “peer reputation” which is based almost entirely on where schools were ranked in the past. It’s a feedback loop. The whole of them should be thrown out the window.

So opinion of the PP you’re responding to DOES matter just as much - to PP. Which is the only on that should matter to PP because pretending rankings are “true” or meaningful is folly.

[Anonymous]

It's not a vacation it's an education...remember your kid will be just like the people they surround themselves with everyday. So hang out with vapid people who decide to attend a school because of the weather not the quality of the education and you will get a self indulgent adult back. Have your kid attend a school where academics and scholarly achievement are celebrated more than the football team that graduates half their kids and you well get back a critical thinking adult. What's important to learn in college is critical thinking and social norms. Getting wasted everyday in the sun is not necessarily the goal after all it doesn't look good after 25!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore?

Schools that gave generous merit to boost the numbers of their incoming class but pulled back on the money like Pitt and 'Bama. Schools that were hot because of sports success like Clemson and Gonzaga. Clemson's still popular, but not like it was 2-3 yrs ago.

Source?

Per CDS, applications have increased significantly over the past few years.

Fall 2020: 28,600 applicants
Fall 2021: 47,000 applicants
Fall 2022: 52,814 applicants
Fall 2023: 60,122 applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a vacation it's an education...remember your kid will be just like the people they surround themselves with everyday. So hang out with vapid people who decide to attend a school because of the weather not the quality of the education and you will get a self indulgent adult back. Have your kid attend a school where academics and scholarly achievement are celebrated more than the football team that graduates half their kids and you well get back a critical thinking adult. What's important to learn in college is critical thinking and social norms. Getting wasted everyday in the sun is not necessarily the goal after all it doesn't look good after 25!

Yes to all of this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south will get taken seriously as soon as the slack jawed yokels end their confederate nostalgia and stop cheering for a losing treasonous side that have been a disgrace and a stain on this country for 150 years.

Oh and when they can justify going to a school based on more criteria than the students are attractive and the weather is warm.

These posters sound vapid and shallow and perfect for a sports administration major at an SEC school.

+1

Reason #467 to avoid the South altogether.

Do you truly think this is what most Southerners are like? In rural Alabama or Mississippi, maybe. In major cities and college towns, not like that at all.

Slack-jawed yokels, probably not - but voting patterns show that Southerners vote for Trump and his ilk consistently, which is disturbing given the MAGA white supremacist agenda. It's the region that has given us Tom Cotton, Mike Huckabee, Tommy Tuberville, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, Ron Desantis.

https://www.cookpolitical.com/2020-national-popular-vote-tracker

Moreover, it's not a region that supports education. Look at what Desantis has done to Florida education and look at school performance in Mississippi and Alabama.

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596492.pdf

Look at these federal dependency figures.

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/

Do I think all Southerners are as described above? No. Would I ever send my kids to school in the region, or move there myself? Never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quality of life at places like Auburn, Alabama, and George is insane. Gorgeous weather, gorgeous people.

Not sure if you actually grew up in the south or not but I don't know if you'd describe Alabama or Georgia as "gorgeous". Morbid obesity is a huge problem across the South.
Sure, there are some good looking people but you could go to CA or CO for more physically fit people.

This not true for middle class southern kids. They take a lot of pride in their appearance and are an overall better looking group than their northern peers.

They're good looking when they're younger because it's easy to be thin when you're young. I grew up in the south and went to college and graduate school in the south. Now I'm in my 40s and my peers in the south are significantly more overweight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

I would guess EVERY single kid would choose UNC or UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Wake Forest? Tulane? Does the value of that degree change in your mind because of the sudden drop in ranking? Would you have your DC apply to a school because it jumped up in ranking? Rankings can be fluid and often meaningless depending on metrics.

But those are both really good schools. I'm asking are there some schools that were not well regarded and then just suddenly jumped to #6 public university (UF's ranking) and then just suddenly fell off the list a few years later? No. The answer is no. UF is a solid school. That's why it's ranked the way it is and it has been #6 for years. This isn't new. This isn't a fluke. UNC is #4 and UVA #5. It's not like UF is that far behind.

Yes, they are both great schools, which illustrates why rankings are meaningless in both directions. Schools move up and down for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't make them better or worse that year. You are fixated on rank, I'm talking about trends in applications. Southern schools are seeing a surge in applications, but it doesn't mean they are on their way to being "TOP." I do think UF and UGA are both solid schools. I said that in my original post. Do I think they are viewed the same as UVA and UNC? I don't. If all things were equal and a kid had offers from these four schools in front of them, I'm going to guess most would choose UVA or UNC above the other two.

They're seeing a surge in applications because the population growth has been in the south for a while now. More kids, more applicants.

[Anonymous]

Look at 2024 class posts to see where kids are matriculating, which is different that what schools are popular in the list of 12-15 schools kids send applications. Clemson and 'Bama are down, while TN, Auburn and SC are popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the South is the future of higher education in the US. Lot of great schools, that offer a better value for the education dollar.

I think it's bananas to send your kids to an out of state public university (and pay OOS tuition) to a school that is just ok. The honest answer here is to send your kids to an in-state public school in your jurisdiction. THAT is the future of higher ed....if we're smart.

Those schools are cheaper now and in a few years will be considered TOP.

Which schools do you think will be considered "TOP"?

We have a thread for this: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1200283.page

Yes, but I can't think of one "cheaper" SEC school that will be considered TOP in a few years. Not one. I don't think Georgia or Florida will ever be at the level of UNC or UVA, much less at the level of Ivies and the like.

+1
Georgia and Florida are great schools and both are enjoying a surge in popularity. Both are great, affordable options for in state students which has elevated their rankings, helping push application #s up out of state. However, these schools will never be in the same category of UNC or UVA.

Why wouldn’t they be?

Years/decades of established reputation. UNC and UVA have been well regarded/highly ranked since we were all looking at colleges 20 years ago. Every few years new schools become hot - currently it's Southern schools like Georgia and Florida. You can probably name programs that UNC and UVA are known for, not just regionally, but nationally. Can you say the same for Georgia and Florida?

Which schools were hot a few years ago and aren’t anymore? I don’t really think schools move in and out of the rankings quickly like you seem to think they do. I think once a school moves up it tends to stay up for awhile. I predict UF and UGA will stay higher in the rankings for a long time.

Schools get hot for a lot of reasons...successful sports teams, targeted regional recruiting, etc. Popularity does not equate to being well respected. Just because tens of thousands of kids apply to a school and drive the acceptance rate down, it doesn't immediately make employers regard the degree as more valuable. I think Georgia and Florida are popular schools. I do not view them in the same category of schools like UVA and UNC.

And you know more than USNWR? Sorry but it honestly doesn't matter what you think.

Ask your friends with much younger or much older kids what the USNWR top public colleges are. People outside of this college search bubble are not tracking on this information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south will get taken seriously as soon as the slack jawed yokels end their confederate nostalgia and stop cheering for a losing treasonous side that have been a disgrace and a stain on this country for 150 years.

Oh and when they can justify going to a school based on more criteria than the students are attractive and the weather is warm.

These posters sound vapid and shallow and perfect for a sports administration major at an SEC school.

+1

Reason #467 to avoid the South altogether.

I guess New York, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, California, New Jersey and Maryland are out of the question because the rural people of these states are majority Trump voters. Red state or blue, large towns, college towns and cities generally go Democrat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The South is now the destination of choice for many college bound kids. Will this trend continue?

https://www.thefp.com/p/kids-skip-ivy-league-for-southern-schools

Perhaps some of these schools will continue to gain in status but I don't think it will make all that much of a differnce.

[Anonymous]

As a Jew, my kid will be primarily looking at Southern schools. The anti-semitism just isn't baked in, like in CA and Northeast schools. Why put up with that for 4 years?