Banneker HS - College and Score Outcomes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son also got into CTY and didn't even get an interview at Banneker. I suspect these two aren't the only ones.

They aren't. We know two others from post 7th grade CTY who got the "ineligible" email from Banneker after interviewing (indicating no WL number granted).

CTY rocks, logical admissions system, high and transparent bar to clear.

Banneker's system is alternate universe diabolical.

Because they offer a test that you can pay to prep for?

Pay to take, too, right? No one offered my middle school student a free SAT.

You can submit PARCC scores to qualify for CTY— that’s what my child did. No need to pay for the SAT.

This. CTY is trying to make this process more equitable, though they should make it better known, too. Also, I grew up in a working class town and the school actually did administer the SAT to a group of us for free, for this purpose.

So you can submit PARCC, their classes are expensive! Average people cannot afford them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the "status" part matter to you? That's the only part I feel like I want to probe here. Is it that SWW is seen as high-status, and you want test-in to be equivalent to high-status? Or do you really just want advanced material?

In other cities, the application schools are FULL of low-mid SES kids who are hard working and intelligent. Many immigrant kids. The private schools are for high SES.


DC is a weird city.

Yes, here too. Who do you think makes up the student population in DC?

[Anonymous]

I’ll push back. DC is not like many cities. It is people who are rich and educated and their children and people who are poor and uneducated and their children.

The people in the middle or the overlap essentially do not exist, at least in testing.

The children of the poor consistently fail tests here. Teachers say it is because they are dealing with problems. I won’t contradict them. The children of the higher income families - very high income by American standards (maybe not by regional standards) tend to ace the tests.

So the idea that we would build a school for the ingenious children of the poor — it is a very nice idea that caters to no actual children, and would in effect serve as another benefit to higher income families.

I love the idea that these children might be out there, family income information and testing data show that they are not in DC. Perhaps in some suburbs. But not within DCPS’ service area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son also got into CTY and didn't even get an interview at Banneker. I suspect these two aren't the only ones.

They aren't. We know two others from post 7th grade CTY who got the "ineligible" email from Banneker after interviewing (indicating no WL number granted).

CTY rocks, logical admissions system, high and transparent bar to clear.

Banneker's system is alternate universe diabolical.

Because they offer a test that you can pay to prep for?

Pay to take, too, right? No one offered my middle school student a free SAT.

Poor thing! That must make standardized testing completely invalid!

No it’s invalid because rich people can game it. It’s like the TOEFL (English language exam that foreign students must take to study in the U.S.) exam that so many Asian grad students aced but then couldn’t speak any English so the department had to scramble to find replacement GTA for them. Standardized tests are rich people affirmative action. Let’s get rid of all affirmative action!

Rich people can game any system that anyone devises. So what? It doesnt mean they actually do or, when they do, that it's actually effective. Sheesh. People are so eager to think of themselves as victims.

[Anonymous]

Y'all should read a bit about what Mississippi has done.

DC is all about dumbing everything down in schools to the lowest possible common denominator in the name of equity.

Mississippi did the opposite. They said poverty is no excuse and declared that any third grader who can't pass a reading test automatically fails third grade.

The result has been dubbed the "Mississippi Miracle."

The New York Times:

....“Mississippi is a huge success story and very exciting,” David Deming, a Harvard economist and education expert, told me. What’s so significant, he said, is that while Mississippi hasn’t overcome poverty or racism, it still manages to get kids to read and excel.

“You cannot use poverty as an excuse. That’s the most important lesson,” Deming added....

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/opinion/mississippi-education-poverty.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll push back. DC is not like many cities. It is people who are rich and educated and their children and people who are poor and uneducated and their children.

The people in the middle or the overlap essentially do not exist, at least in testing.

The children of the poor consistently fail tests here. Teachers say it is because they are dealing with problems. I won’t contradict them. The children of the higher income families - very high income by American standards (maybe not by regional standards) tend to ace the tests.

So the idea that we would build a school for the ingenious children of the poor — it is a very nice idea that caters to no actual children, and would in effect serve as another benefit to higher income families.

I love the idea that these children might be out there, family income information and testing data show that they are not in DC. Perhaps in some suburbs. But not within DCPS’ service area.

You should get out of Foxhall once in awhile. There's lots of people in DC who are neither rich nor poor who are well educated and expect their children to be well educated. For the people who can't afford Wards 2 or 3, the educational options are pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll push back. DC is not like many cities. It is people who are rich and educated and their children and people who are poor and uneducated and their children.

The people in the middle or the overlap essentially do not exist, at least in testing.

The children of the poor consistently fail tests here. Teachers say it is because they are dealing with problems. I won’t contradict them. The children of the higher income families - very high income by American standards (maybe not by regional standards) tend to ace the tests.

So the idea that we would build a school for the ingenious children of the poor — it is a very nice idea that caters to no actual children, and would in effect serve as another benefit to higher income families.

I love the idea that these children might be out there, family income information and testing data show that they are not in DC. Perhaps in some suburbs. But not within DCPS’ service area.

This is a huge misconception. There are lots of kids in every DCPS school scoring 3s and 4s on PARCC.

[Anonymous]

show me. East of Ward 3. Nonwhite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a failure to "cater" to high-performing students. It's a failure to meet their education needs.

What are you talking about? The complaint is that a single high-scoring 8th grader didn't get in, even though they're great at the SAT. Banneker doesn't have to meet the needs of students who do not attend Banneker, and the complaint on the table is absolutely that the school isn't catering to the kinds of high-SES parents who make their middle schoolers take the SAT to show off. SAT scores aren't considered in admission to high schools because *middle schoolers don't take the SAT*.

What's fun is the assumption that since this kid is good at math and, by his mom's account, otherwise charming - then all the kids who did get into Banneker must be less intelligent and getting some kind of preferential treatment they don't deserve. I feel like you people can't even hear yourselves.

I feel the need to defend this PP.

1. Parents like this have their kids take the SAT so that they can qualify for CTY. Then they send them to CTY so they can take challenging classes with other nerds and have the time of their lives. IYKYK. They aren't doing it to "show off" but for a much more tangible outcome.

2. In any other city, kids like this would ace the entrance exam for the application/magnet high school. Then they could go to a school where they are challenged and set on a path to succeed.

That's where this parents frustration lies.

Getting into Blair Magnet or TJ is incredibly difficult and not guaranteed. Neither are the programs in DC. I wonder if there's entitlement on those subforums as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a failure to "cater" to high-performing students. It's a failure to meet their education needs.

What are you talking about? The complaint is that a single high-scoring 8th grader didn't get in, even though they're great at the SAT. Banneker doesn't have to meet the needs of students who do not attend Banneker, and the complaint on the table is absolutely that the school isn't catering to the kinds of high-SES parents who make their middle schoolers take the SAT to show off. SAT scores aren't considered in admission to high schools because *middle schoolers don't take the SAT*.

What's fun is the assumption that since this kid is good at math and, by his mom's account, otherwise charming - then all the kids who did get into Banneker must be less intelligent and getting some kind of preferential treatment they don't deserve. I feel like you people can't even hear yourselves.

I feel the need to defend this PP.

1. Parents like this have their kids take the SAT so that they can qualify for CTY. Then they send them to CTY so they can take challenging classes with other nerds and have the time of their lives. IYKYK. They aren't doing it to "show off" but for a much more tangible outcome.

2. In any other city, kids like this would ace the entrance exam for the application/magnet high school. Then they could go to a school where they are challenged and set on a path to succeed.

That's where this parents frustration lies.

Getting into Blair Magnet or TJ is incredibly difficult and not guaranteed. Neither are the programs in DC. I wonder if there's entitlement on those subforums as well.

I'm not looking for a guarantee of anything, I'm looking for a process that both offers these slots to the kids who can most use them and offers some ability to plan to their parents. I grew up in a city - not New York - which had test-in options, and it meant if you had a kid who was really bright, you knew there would be a school they could go to which would make a reasonable attempt to educate them. DCPS doesn't have that. The stakes are super high for Latin and Walls and they pull kids from elementary and middle schools they'd otherwise stay in part because you have zero ability to make predictions about where your kid is going to get into high school, so you have to exit in 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a failure to "cater" to high-performing students. It's a failure to meet their education needs.

What are you talking about? The complaint is that a single high-scoring 8th grader didn't get in, even though they're great at the SAT. Banneker doesn't have to meet the needs of students who do not attend Banneker, and the complaint on the table is absolutely that the school isn't catering to the kinds of high-SES parents who make their middle schoolers take the SAT to show off. SAT scores aren't considered in admission to high schools because *middle schoolers don't take the SAT*.

What's fun is the assumption that since this kid is good at math and, by his mom's account, otherwise charming - then all the kids who did get into Banneker must be less intelligent and getting some kind of preferential treatment they don't deserve. I feel like you people can't even hear yourselves.

I feel the need to defend this PP.

1. Parents like this have their kids take the SAT so that they can qualify for CTY. Then they send them to CTY so they can take challenging classes with other nerds and have the time of their lives. IYKYK. They aren't doing it to "show off" but for a much more tangible outcome.

2. In any other city, kids like this would ace the entrance exam for the application/magnet high school. Then they could go to a school where they are challenged and set on a path to succeed.

That's where this parents frustration lies.

Getting into Blair Magnet or TJ is incredibly difficult and not guaranteed. Neither are the programs in DC. I wonder if there's entitlement on those subforums as well.

I'm not looking for a guarantee of anything, I'm looking for a process that both offers these slots to the kids who can most use them and offers some ability to plan to their parents. I grew up in a city - not New York - which had test-in options, and it meant if you had a kid who was really bright, you knew there would be a school they could go to which would make a reasonable attempt to educate them. DCPS doesn't have that. The stakes are super high for Latin and Walls and they pull kids from elementary and middle schools they'd otherwise stay in part because you have zero ability to make predictions about where your kid is going to get into high school, so you have to exit in 5th grade.

*Latin and BASIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a failure to "cater" to high-performing students. It's a failure to meet their education needs.

What are you talking about? The complaint is that a single high-scoring 8th grader didn't get in, even though they're great at the SAT. Banneker doesn't have to meet the needs of students who do not attend Banneker, and the complaint on the table is absolutely that the school isn't catering to the kinds of high-SES parents who make their middle schoolers take the SAT to show off. SAT scores aren't considered in admission to high schools because *middle schoolers don't take the SAT*.

What's fun is the assumption that since this kid is good at math and, by his mom's account, otherwise charming - then all the kids who did get into Banneker must be less intelligent and getting some kind of preferential treatment they don't deserve. I feel like you people can't even hear yourselves.

I feel the need to defend this PP.

1. Parents like this have their kids take the SAT so that they can qualify for CTY. Then they send them to CTY so they can take challenging classes with other nerds and have the time of their lives. IYKYK. They aren't doing it to "show off" but for a much more tangible outcome.

2. In any other city, kids like this would ace the entrance exam for the application/magnet high school. Then they could go to a school where they are challenged and set on a path to succeed.

That's where this parents frustration lies.

Getting into Blair Magnet or TJ is incredibly difficult and not guaranteed. Neither are the programs in DC. I wonder if there's entitlement on those subforums as well.

My kid won’t test into Blair or TJ or probably even Walls. But I still think they should exist because we need engineers and doctors! In MD there are also many more baseline acceptable HSs with strong cohorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:show me. East of Ward 3. Nonwhite.

here you go. 12% white but many more than that getting 3+.

https://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Eliot-Hine+Middle+School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll push back. DC is not like many cities. It is people who are rich and educated and their children and people who are poor and uneducated and their children.

The people in the middle or the overlap essentially do not exist, at least in testing.

The children of the poor consistently fail tests here. Teachers say it is because they are dealing with problems. I won’t contradict them. The children of the higher income families - very high income by American standards (maybe not by regional standards) tend to ace the tests.

So the idea that we would build a school for the ingenious children of the poor — it is a very nice idea that caters to no actual children, and would in effect serve as another benefit to higher income families.

I love the idea that these children might be out there, family income information and testing data show that they are not in DC. Perhaps in some suburbs. But not within DCPS’ service area.

They exist in small numbers across the city and often end up at the application based schools, if encouraged to apply. And they do well there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll push back. DC is not like many cities. It is people who are rich and educated and their children and people who are poor and uneducated and their children.

The people in the middle or the overlap essentially do not exist, at least in testing.

The children of the poor consistently fail tests here. Teachers say it is because they are dealing with problems. I won’t contradict them. The children of the higher income families - very high income by American standards (maybe not by regional standards) tend to ace the tests.

So the idea that we would build a school for the ingenious children of the poor — it is a very nice idea that caters to no actual children, and would in effect serve as another benefit to higher income families.

I love the idea that these children might be out there, family income information and testing data show that they are not in DC. Perhaps in some suburbs. But not within DCPS’ service area.

They exist in small numbers across the city and often end up at the application based schools, if encouraged to apply. And they do well there.

I hope they end up there. But how? The kid from a Ward 7 and 8 middle school who is testing at grade level goes through the same process as everyone else for the selective admissions high schools. They can't use either the fact that they're at grade level or that they need this more than anyone else. Do either of those things come through via the recommendations or interviews? Probably not. A lot of kids are getting full points on the recommendations and that's not what the interviews are trying to get at.