All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When applying to colleges and universities, applying to at least 3 safeties is the most important. If a student accurately identifies & applies to 3 safeties, then the number of apps to other schools should not be a concern.

If up to me, I would limit students to 12 applications although 10 is also a reasonable limit.

With high stats kids being yield protected from safeties, it doesn't seem like safeties exist anymore.

Your kid needs to show interest, convince the safety why they want to attend. Safeties do exist. A school with a 50-60%+ acceptance rate does not just reject all high stats applicants. But your "why School X" essay has to be meaningful, you need to show interest and contact admissions/dept chairs/etc and let them think you actually want to attend. If you do that, you will get into at least 50% of your safeties. And you should have at least 2 safeties that have 75%+ acceptance rates...those do NOT yield protect, they are going to accept your high stats kid, 99% of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When applying to colleges and universities, applying to at least 3 safeties is the most important. If a student accurately identifies & applies to 3 safeties, then the number of apps to other schools should not be a concern.

If up to me, I would limit students to 12 applications although 10 is also a reasonable limit.

With high stats kids being yield protected from safeties, it doesn't seem like safeties exist anymore.

Not all schools yield protect. If it does, it's not a safety.

THIS. Not sure why some here can't grasp that.

Because there is no way their special snowflake can possibly find a "safety" school they like. So their def of a safety is something in the 30-50 range and with a 25-40% acceptance rate...many are calling what is really a target a safety. And targets definately do yield protect, especially very high stats kids, as they think you are not going to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When applying to colleges and universities, applying to at least 3 safeties is the most important. If a student accurately identifies & applies to 3 safeties, then the number of apps to other schools should not be a concern.

If up to me, I would limit students to 12 applications although 10 is also a reasonable limit.

With high stats kids being yield protected from safeties, it doesn't seem like safeties exist anymore.

Not all schools yield protect. If it does, it's not a safety.

THIS. Not sure why some here can't grasp that.

NP. Agree, schools that yield protect are not safeties. Food for thought: are there schools which now yield protect, but didn't appear to yield protect prior to test optional admissions?

Many colleges outsource yield management to enrollment management consultants for big bucks. Those consultants use algorithms. The algorithms in the past incorporated score data and test optional students were but a tiny slice of the big picture. That all changed, of course, and the portion of test optional applicants is now much bigger and more likely to enroll than a score-submitter.

It seemed that, in the past, some high-acceptance-rate colleges might accept several high stats applicants and anticipate that only a small fraction of those would choose to attend. Now, there is a sense that the algorithms cannot handle that, and so instead the high stats applicants are simply denied. Something is not right with the algorithms if high stats students are being denied from colleges with 80%+ acceptance rates.

This is why I'm saying safeties don't exist anymore. It doesn't make sense that a school would reject a high stats student if they accept so many applicants.

in my reality, many who say "my kid was yield protected from their safety" are in reality talking about a "Target school". Because nope, by and large, schools with 75%+ acceptance rates are not rejected a kid with high stats, especially if they show demonstrated interest (and hint: if you high stats kid does not show demonstrated interest, that is a problem and might be why you got rejected).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When applying to colleges and universities, applying to at least 3 safeties is the most important. If a student accurately identifies & applies to 3 safeties, then the number of apps to other schools should not be a concern.

If up to me, I would limit students to 12 applications although 10 is also a reasonable limit.

With high stats kids being yield protected from safeties, it doesn't seem like safeties exist anymore.

Your kid needs to show interest, convince the safety why they want to attend. Safeties do exist. A school with a 50-60%+ acceptance rate does not just reject all high stats applicants. But your "why School X" essay has to be meaningful, you need to show interest and contact admissions/dept chairs/etc and let them think you actually want to attend. If you do that, you will get into at least 50% of your safeties. And you should have at least 2 safeties that have 75%+ acceptance rates...those do NOT yield protect, they are going to accept your high stats kid, 99% of the time.

Just FYI, you (and several others) are quoting posts from a year ago. A troll bumped an old thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VA Tech says it is very important in the essays to write how the student would be a part of the community and what goals would be at VT and how VT would help achieve them. School counselors had spoken to a reader and were emphatic.

Don’t know how much it counts, but they said that it is “very important”. Writing generically is no good. Has to be specific to what the student would do at VT and why they want to be there.

This is how you "show demonstrated interest" for many schools. The "why U of X/what will you add to the community" essay is very important.

[Anonymous]

^Just FYI, you (and several others) are quoting posts from a year ago. A troll bumped an old thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like the UK system more. One can only apply to a max of 5 schools. There is no "holistic" BS. They look at your test scores, your grades and your essay is about what and why you want to study what you want to intend to study.
Actually, most higher ed admissions worldwide is not holistic but performance based. Only the US has this social engineering game with college admissions.

if that is what you desire, then go to the UK/CHina/India/etc. Where your kid is put on their ultimate track for college back at age 11/12 based on a single test on one day. Do poorly and you will never be a STEM major in college because your HS path won't give you the proper background. Do even worse and you might not be on a college path at all.

Dont' know about you, but I'd prefer my kids (and all other kids) have the opportunity to blossom when they are ready/mature enough. I've seen plenty of kids who you never would have thought would end up in engineering/premed based on them in 6th grade, yet they are successful on that path because they grew and matured

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're thinking about it all wrong. There are many more great schools, students, and professors than there were when we were kids. That's cause for celebration, not despair. It's only if you refuse to broaden your view to acknowledge that improvement beyond the traditional elites that things look grim. Adjust your thinking to fit reality for the sake of your own mental health--and especially for your kid's.

You are really lacking in empathy.

Not really. Of course you are setting your kid up for disappointment if they don't have true targets and safeties in their list. Applying to 10+ Reach schools with single digit acceptance rates does not improve your chances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.

How can you apply ED to two different schools? I thought the point of ED is that it is for one school only?

ED1 and then if not accepted pick a school that has ED2, typically with apps due in early Jan. ED2 was smartly created for schools to capture kids who don't get into their ED1 on Dec 15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.

Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.

Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.

It's not really that black and white.

And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.

It isn't. And that should be acknowledged as a problem more widely in this country. Esp. when going to a low ranked school can keep you perpetually in the plebe class. Look at all the smug opinions of the various schools on this board . . . .

Fact is most T25 schools offer very little merit (almost non-existent). So if you are not able to pay for it in ED, then nothing will change with RD. So run the NPC, if you cannot pay what it says you need to, then it's not a school that's a affordable for you--nothing changes with RD.
So you need to focus on schools you can afford, just like with most things in life, you purchase what you can afford (be it school, homes, cars, vacations, etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.

Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.

Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.

It's not really that black and white.

And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.

It isn't. And that should be acknowledged as a problem more widely in this country. Esp. when going to a low ranked school can keep you perpetually in the plebe class. Look at all the smug opinions of the various schools on this board . . . .

The thing is everyone is subject to the same financial aid formula. So you don't need to be full pay--you just need to save what is estimated to be reasonable based on your income/assets. And there is room for exacerbating expenses like medical expenses to be figured in. You may not like that number, but we're all subjected to the same financial assessment. ED doesn't require being full pay--it requires being able to pay what you are estimated to need based on a federal and sometimes also institutional formula. We're all expected to save some, cash flow some and borrow some.

And there's little evidence that going to a low-ranked school holds you back. Students that could get into a T20 school have similar outcomes if they go to even a much lower ranked school. On average the only real social mobility factor from college ranking is if you are low-income and go to a top school. Otherwise it really is the student not the school.

You are still making the point. "You just need to save." Oh, is that all?

or get rid of the notion of "top 25 or bust" mentality and search for excellent schools you can afford. Where you go does NOT matter, it's what you do when you get there. If you need merit, it exists in large amounts at many schools in the T50-100 range. Find a private that gives good merit and your kid is at/above the 75% for stats. The merit will flow.
My own kid 26/3.5UW/no APs got 35% of tuition in merit at 3 schools in the 70-90 range (50th percentile for stats) and 66% of tuition at one near 120 (85% for stats). My kid could have attended the 120 ranked private school for ~28K/year, but chose the 80 ranked for ~$40K/year. So my kid who was not "high stats" got excellent merit. Had we been actually searching we could have found even better merit schools in the 100+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are missing the math on reaches.

My kid is waiting on 5 reach RD schools. College vine says we have the following chances to get in:

25%
20%
20%
15%
15%

So chance of rejection:
75%
80%
80%
85%
85%

Multiply all the rejection % .75*.8*.8*.85*.835 = 35%

We have a 35% chance to be rejected by the 5 remaining reaches. So he’s not counting too much on the reaches.

And that’s with a good recommendation and good essays.

Each school is individual. Your chance of rejection is still 75%, 80, 80, 85 and 85%. Not 35%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ full disclosure - I am also the parent of a current senior. Is it the worst year? All I know is that the US college admission process, when you want selective schools, is very stressful compared to those in other countries.

Because in other countries, your kids are tracked starting at age 11/12. A one day test at that age determines your path thru rest of MS/HS level. If you do poorly then, you are not on the STEM college track or even the humanities/SS college track, you are on the "not going to college" track. So by time you reach 12th grade level, you are only competing with the kids on your track. It's hard to switch tracks (unless you go expensive private).

IMO, I'd much rather let my kid (and others) have the chance to grow in their teens and be able to pick what track/majors they want at the college level, not at age 11/12. I know way too many kids who didn't blossom until late HS or college.

+1 my DS especially was a mediocre student in middle school. Friends who hadn't spent much time with us during HS were really surprised at his college outcomes because they didn't know that by senior year of HS he had turned into a math super star, taking nearly all AP classes and straight As in 11-12th grade. Definitely heard some "how did HE get in there when X (great MS student) did not?"

And that is why I LOVE our system compared to Europe and Asia! Just because someone is not on track to do Calculus in 10th/11th grade should not mean they can't be a doctor or engineer or CS major. I think back 35+ years and I went to a HS where only 15 of us took basic calculus senior year (500 kids in senior class). I know 8 kids who were not in calculus who are now engineers, doctors, PHD in math or chemistry/biochem/biology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The test has changed - it's easier to get a good score now. They also allow superscoring, which means if you take the test 3 times, they will only use your best score from each section of the test. For the ACT, this is particularly relevant since there are 4 sections.

Anonymous wrote:Great point about many schools going TO. That said, I'm also seeing an incredible number of students with 1400+ SAT scores. I get that I need to not draw from my experience in the 90s when it was rare to hear of someone getting such high or near perfect scores but what is up with so many high scores these days? Has the scoring changed since I remember it? Or has the test itself gotten easier? Or maybe those are the only ones we hear about on here?

When did they start allowing superscoring? I took the SAT in 1985 and didn't know if was an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your kid needs to show interest, convince the safety why they want to attend. Safeties do exist. A school with a 50-60%+ acceptance rate does not just reject all high stats applicants. But your "why School X" essay has to be meaningful, you need to show interest and contact admissions/dept chairs/etc and let them think you actually want to attend. If you do that, you will get into at least 50% of your safeties. And you should have at least 2 safeties that have 75%+ acceptance rates...those do NOT yield protect, they are going to accept your high stats kid, 99% of the time.

My high stats kid was deferred from a state school that does not yield protect and has a a 70% acceptance rate. I don't think safeties exist anymore.