High School Boys Struggling at our Big 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s an excerpt from a class note from one of these classes. What a claustrophobic, ideological, closed little mind this brief introduction projects to me! Students should print highlight and annotate, students should read a discredited author who based his theories about white men on interviews with Beo-Nazis and also was accused of accused of harassment and assault by several graduate students because I think he’s great…. Blah blah blah I wouldn’t let my kid take this if I had any choice; if I had to have them take I’d make sure they were fully informed and critically minded.

“From my past experience, students typically do better on their exams if they print these documents and highlight them and write notes on them!
1. Kimmel, Michael. (2013). Angry white men: American masculinity at the end of an era. New York: Nations Books.
Note: In the spirit of full transparency, there has been some controversy associated with this scholar who is now retired. You can review a brief summary of his credentials and the issue in question at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kimmel. Because Kimmel has arguably:
a. done more to advance the subfield of men and masculinity than anyone else,
b. published more material on men and masculinities themes than anyone else,
c. and wrote an important book that deals with timely topics that speak to our
polarized society, masculinity themes,
d. and wrote another book about gendered college life
I felt it reasonable to incorporate this book, and a few chapters from another book, into the class readings. I recognize that some students would have chosen to ignore his work because of the accusations against him. However, given my intimate knowledge of the history of the field, I believe students will benefit from reading his work and develop a fuller grasp of this area of study by being exposed to Kimmel’s work.”

What classes are you referring to? GDS seminar has no homework/note taking and definitely no tests. It's one time a week max and gets cancelled if they have an assembly, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our big 3, 9th graders have a seminar class where topical issues are discussed.

According to my kid, every session degrades into why men/toxic masculinity is the core #1 thing wrong with the world. Teachers do nothing to stop this. The conversation degrades to 20 minutes of such informed debate as "men should be banned from running companies, cities, holding public office"

We chose this school. It's known for its stances. But if one was to try to devise the most effective way to turn off boys n a classroom from learning and cause backlash, this would be it. Our school is known for protecting students with "safe speech" around topics like the holocaust, racism etc but yet that does not apply here for some reason. I also dont like safety-ism so I dont want to lean on that argument if I go to the scvhool

What advice do you all have for a parent worried about this dynamic and in particular the wholesale accusations against men and boys as harming boys in the classroom? Go to the teacher or up to admin?

This is a serious post and I beg that the mods not remove this thread

Send your son to the Heights School in Potomac. He will not be exposed to anything like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our big 3, 9th graders have a seminar class where topical issues are discussed.

According to my kid, every session degrades into why men/toxic masculinity is the core #1 thing wrong with the world. Teachers do nothing to stop this. The conversation degrades to 20 minutes of such informed debate as "men should be banned from running companies, cities, holding public office"

We chose this school. It's known for its stances. But if one was to try to devise the most effective way to turn off boys n a classroom from learning and cause backlash, this would be it. Our school is known for protecting students with "safe speech" around topics like the holocaust, racism etc but yet that does not apply here for some reason. I also dont like safety-ism so I dont want to lean on that argument if I go to the scvhool

What advice do you all have for a parent worried about this dynamic and in particular the wholesale accusations against men and boys as harming boys in the classroom? Go to the teacher or up to admin?

This is a serious post and I beg that the mods not remove this thread

Send your son to the Heights School in Potomac. He will not be exposed to anything like this.

nor will he be exposed to ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh the irony! Maybe you can talk to parents of girls or people of color to see how they have endured being made to feel less than productive positive contributors in this country.

So why would you want to make other people feel that way? Oh the hypocrisy.

And that's not justice, it's vengeance.

If you want to really change the world, and you want to make the world a better place, treat others as you would like to be treated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh the irony! Maybe you can talk to parents of girls or people of color to see how they have endured being made to feel less than productive positive contributors in this country.

So why would you want to make other people feel that way? Oh the hypocrisy.

And that's not justice, it's vengeance.

If you want to really change the world, and you want to make the world a better place, treat others as you would like to be treated.

I am a new poster to this thread whose kid is at an all boys private but still consider myself liberal on issues of gender. My serious question to the PP is why did you assume the poster wanted men to feel oppressed? They simply advocated to talking to historically oppressed minorities for insight on how to endure feeling made less than. And while I agree people should observe the golden rule, how do you suppose we address previous grievances without discussing them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh the irony! Maybe you can talk to parents of girls or people of color to see how they have endured being made to feel less than productive positive contributors in this country.

So why would you want to make other people feel that way? Oh the hypocrisy.

And that's not justice, it's vengeance.

If you want to really change the world, and you want to make the world a better place, treat others as you would like to be treated.

I am a new poster to this thread whose kid is at an all boys private but still consider myself liberal on issues of gender. My serious question to the PP is why did you assume the poster wanted men to feel oppressed? They simply advocated to talking to historically oppressed minorities for insight on how to endure feeling made less than. And while I agree people should observe the golden rule, how do you suppose we address previous grievances without discussing them?

Another NP, who agrees with the PP. Social justice work is important and necessary, but in my opinion, too often the line between talking about uncomfortable subject matter and intentionally making people uncomfortable is crossed in certain settings, especially when dealing with younger people. I'm not sure why talking about white men as a group as rapists is less damaging to a young person than other racial stereotypes that are not and should not be permitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh the irony! Maybe you can talk to parents of girls or people of color to see how they have endured being made to feel less than productive positive contributors in this country.

So why would you want to make other people feel that way? Oh the hypocrisy.

And that's not justice, it's vengeance.

If you want to really change the world, and you want to make the world a better place, treat others as you would like to be treated.

I am a new poster to this thread whose kid is at an all boys private but still consider myself liberal on issues of gender. My serious question to the PP is why did you assume the poster wanted men to feel oppressed? They simply advocated to talking to historically oppressed minorities for insight on how to endure feeling made less than. And while I agree people should observe the golden rule, how do you suppose we address previous grievances without discussing them?

Another NP, who agrees with the PP. Social justice work is important and necessary, but in my opinion, too often the line between talking about uncomfortable subject matter and intentionally making people uncomfortable is crossed in certain settings, especially when dealing with younger people. I'm not sure why talking about white men as a group as rapists is less damaging to a young person than other racial stereotypes that are not and should not be permitted.

But there is a huge chasm between characterizing all white men as rapists and acknowledging there are a lot of benefits to past privilege, which is apparently a controversial thing to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh the irony! Maybe you can talk to parents of girls or people of color to see how they have endured being made to feel less than productive positive contributors in this country.

So why would you want to make other people feel that way? Oh the hypocrisy.

And that's not justice, it's vengeance.

If you want to really change the world, and you want to make the world a better place, treat others as you would like to be treated.

I am a new poster to this thread whose kid is at an all boys private but still consider myself liberal on issues of gender. My serious question to the PP is why did you assume the poster wanted men to feel oppressed? They simply advocated to talking to historically oppressed minorities for insight on how to endure feeling made less than. And while I agree people should observe the golden rule, how do you suppose we address previous grievances without discussing them?

Another NP, who agrees with the PP. Social justice work is important and necessary, but in my opinion, too often the line between talking about uncomfortable subject matter and intentionally making people uncomfortable is crossed in certain settings, especially when dealing with younger people. I'm not sure why talking about white men as a group as rapists is less damaging to a young person than other racial stereotypes that are not and should not be permitted.

But there is a huge chasm between characterizing all white men as rapists and acknowledging there are a lot of benefits to past privilege, which is apparently a controversial thing to say.

That's not what the OP complaint about. The complaint was about statements like "men should be banned from running companies." Imagine saying that about any other identity group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh the irony! Maybe you can talk to parents of girls or people of color to see how they have endured being made to feel less than productive positive contributors in this country.

So why would you want to make other people feel that way? Oh the hypocrisy.

And that's not justice, it's vengeance.

If you want to really change the world, and you want to make the world a better place, treat others as you would like to be treated.

I am a new poster to this thread whose kid is at an all boys private but still consider myself liberal on issues of gender. My serious question to the PP is why did you assume the poster wanted men to feel oppressed? They simply advocated to talking to historically oppressed minorities for insight on how to endure feeling made less than. And while I agree people should observe the golden rule, how do you suppose we address previous grievances without discussing them?

Another NP, who agrees with the PP. Social justice work is important and necessary, but in my opinion, too often the line between talking about uncomfortable subject matter and intentionally making people uncomfortable is crossed in certain settings, especially when dealing with younger people. I'm not sure why talking about white men as a group as rapists is less damaging to a young person than other racial stereotypes that are not and should not be permitted.

But there is a huge chasm between characterizing all white men as rapists and acknowledging there are a lot of benefits to past privilege, which is apparently a controversial thing to say.

That's not what the OP complaint about. The complaint was about statements like "men should be banned from running companies." Imagine saying that about any other identity group.

Agreed. It is worth examining mens issues, but statements like "men should be banned from running companies" is extremely sexist and unproductive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a white male child, why would you ever send him to a school that makes them feel “white guilt” or they are a “male oppressor” as a 14 year old boy! All you parents that send your kids to these woke schools deserve what you are getting!

I send my white male child to a school that is explicitly pro-equity and inclusion. He doesn't feel white guilt. Why should he feel guilty about learning about systemic racism? He didn't create it! And he sure as heck doesn't want to be a part of it. He chooses to be part of the solution, not stick his head in the sand. He feels courageous and helpful and kind, not guilty. And no, he doesn't feel like a "male oppressor." He feels like a young man who sees women as equals, and recognizes that men AND women have been dealt a crappy hand by sexism. He sees what a limited range of emotions his dad was allowed to feel growing up, and how he is now teaching his dad how to be a more open and emotionally aware man. Its really sweet, and they really adore each other. And he sees that women have been excluded from power for oh, the last thousand years or so, and that correcting that may take a minute.

There is no guilt, no shame, and no disempowerment in any of that. I find it so odd that people think that recognizing oppression means you have to identify with the oppressors just because you happen to share their skin color or gender. Why would you do that?

That’s nice and good for him. But unfortunately regardless of how he feels, he will be judged by others and UMR as part of the problem. He will never be accepted and always looked negatively at for having white privilege. Your son will have to constantly virtue signal to fit in and will still be seen a part of the problem no matter how much he feels he is not.

At my college they had segregated classes for DEI. UMR where in one session and all “Whites” were in another section called “Unpacking Whitenss”. You can guess the school as is in the Boston area… basically the Unpacking whistles class basically taught that all whites are oppressors, have white privileged, and everything we do is destructive to society. And historical bad deeds we did are the root problem. Funny as I was born In another country and had nothing to do with systemic racism here.

In addition, being Jewish I’m am also listed as an “oppressed” class but since I’m white, I’m also and oppressor? Hmmmm

And coming from a former Soviet republic, being Jewish you were discriminated on a daily basis.

Of course as Jews who are white, we are simultaneously part of a groups that has and continues to suffer oppression AND part of a society that oppressed non-White people. This is really not the paradox you seem to think it is. There were free Blacks who owned slaves and Jews who collaborated with the Nazis. Life is messy.

And, as someone who has suffered oppression, I’m sure you want to prevent others from suffering similarly, right? Not having lived you whole life in the US, you may not be aware of the mechanism of ongoing systemic racism and, for example, the role that the US federal government played in aggressively enforcing segregation outside of the Jim Crow south thoughout the early 20th century, and the way that created the wealth disparities that exist today.

You may also not be aware of the extent to which the educational and criminal Justice systems treat the exact same behavior differently if you are black or white on ways that lead to very different incarceration rates. Lots of police departments and the US DOJ have published a lot of good research on this, and it’s worth reading.