62 yo man killed in Silver Spring garage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.

BTW, I have had more times that I have been pulled over since then. The three I first described were all from when I first moved here. Since then, I was pulled over for being passed due on the emissions test (I never got the notice). Another time, one of my headlights was out and I hadn't realized it. Oh, and once in downtown SS, a cop even stopped me for jaywalking and gave me a lecture, even though the two-lane road was totally free from cars. No tickets for any of these.

Can you provide a cite to any instance in Moco where a black person complied with officer instructions, wasn't displaying a weapon, and died?

I know there's a narrative that white people are not pulled over for stupid stuff, but it happens. I don't care.

You stayed safe because you’re White and didn’t fight. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts and even video that show Black, Latino, and Indigenous drivers not fighting and being beaten or even killed.

I know it wasn’t in MoCo, but surely you haven’t already forgotten about George Floyd? POC can do everything right and still end up dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

But you know it’s not the actual “norm”, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.

BTW, I have had more times that I have been pulled over since then. The three I first described were all from when I first moved here. Since then, I was pulled over for being passed due on the emissions test (I never got the notice). Another time, one of my headlights was out and I hadn't realized it. Oh, and once in downtown SS, a cop even stopped me for jaywalking and gave me a lecture, even though the two-lane road was totally free from cars. No tickets for any of these.

Can you provide a cite to any instance in Moco where a black person complied with officer instructions, wasn't displaying a weapon, and died?

I know there's a narrative that white people are not pulled over for stupid stuff, but it happens. I don't care.

You stayed safe because you’re White and didn’t fight. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts and even video that show Black, Latino, and Indigenous drivers not fighting and being beaten or even killed.

I know it wasn’t in MoCo, but surely you haven’t already forgotten about George Floyd? POC can do everything right and still end up dead.

“Everything right?”

“Hoop” narcotics?
Pass counterfeit money?
Fight the police?

George Floyd died of an overdose and his own stupidity, assisted on his way by at least one stupid cop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

Were YOU there? Says who “a third of the guns police are recovering?” And what if they are? Near-religious belief in “registration” as a cure for criminal psychopathy, few if any criminals use firearms that they legally purchase or possess. Again and again the real cause of criminal violence — the criminals — gets ignored in favor of a talismanic belief that if somehow inanimate objects can be controlled the malignancy of corrupted hearts will somehow vanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.

That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.

It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.

Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.

Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.

So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.

It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.

It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.

You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?

And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?

It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.

Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?

I have a proposal, as a person living on the Purple Line alignment and across Wayne Ave from elementary and middle schools. Take the two MoCo police who are currently performing crossing guard duty at our un-crosswalked/no-beg-light, no stop light location, twice a day EVERY DAY for school walkers. Put those two guys, who are lovely folks and clearly capable of much more specialized work, on patrol in the goddamned parking garage. Install a light, a speeding camera and a pedestrian button at our intersection. Problem(s) closer to being solved.

Also close clubs 3-6 am. It ain’t rocket science. (But note that most of these recent events haven’t been in those hours.)

I wouldn’t be surprised if those officers are officially off-duty and doing that as a second job.

The task force wants fewer police in Silver Spring, not more. It’s clearly stated in their proposal. They suggest a 50% reduction in staffing in Silver Spring to reduce police interactions with the public. I don’t think you’re getting your parking garage officers with the current county exec.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.

BTW, I have had more times that I have been pulled over since then. The three I first described were all from when I first moved here. Since then, I was pulled over for being passed due on the emissions test (I never got the notice). Another time, one of my headlights was out and I hadn't realized it. Oh, and once in downtown SS, a cop even stopped me for jaywalking and gave me a lecture, even though the two-lane road was totally free from cars. No tickets for any of these.

Can you provide a cite to any instance in Moco where a black person complied with officer instructions, wasn't displaying a weapon, and died?

I know there's a narrative that white people are not pulled over for stupid stuff, but it happens. I don't care.

You stayed safe because you’re White and didn’t fight. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts and even video that show Black, Latino, and Indigenous drivers not fighting and being beaten or even killed.

I know it wasn’t in MoCo, but surely you haven’t already forgotten about George Floyd? POC can do everything right and still end up dead.

“Everything right?”

“Hoop” narcotics?
Pass counterfeit money?
Fight the police?

George Floyd died of an overdose and his own stupidity, assisted on his way by at least one stupid cop.

What do you blame Philando Castile for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

What?

Why does this bother people? The County purposefully built DTSS as a night life attraction. But they didn't increase the security and safety infrastructure to appropriate levels. Silver Spring probably needs another 200 police. But not only does Elrich and the Council cut police positions, they create a very hostile political climate here that makes good cops leave, and almost nobody apply to replace them. Police are down about 125 officers.

And yes, a bunch of the violent crimes are by people who live outside of Montgomery County. Not all, of course. But crime isn't stopping at our county border.

Detectives from the Montgomery County Department of Police – 3rd District Investigative Section have arrested and charged 21-year-old Nathan Elijah Barnes, of Washington, DC, 19-year-old Brian Odell Bowen, of Suitland, and 21-year-old Demonte Martez Hewitt, of Washington, DC, for an armed robbery and a separate shooting incident that occurred in June 2022 in Silver Spring.
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42631

The Department of Juvenile Services held the two juveniles, and they were transported to a youth facility. The 18-year-old, Kaiyon Denell Porter, of Washington, DC, was taken to the Montgomery County Central Processing Unit and charged with attempted armed carjacking and related charges.
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42473

All three suspects, 18-year-old Natnael Akalu of Silver Spring; 18-year-old Wesley Jose Nunez of Washington, DC and 19-year-old Lorenzo Antonio Madrid of Washington, DC, were transported to area hospitals with non-life-threatening injuries. Each has been charged with armed robbery, use of a firearm during the commission of a felony violent crime, possession of a handgun and other related charges.
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42347

Three 14-year-old males from Washington, D.C., have been arrested and charged with an attempted armed carjacking that occurred on October 3, 2022, in Rockville Town Square.
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42208

Detectives from the Montgomery County Department of Police- 3rd District Investigative Section have arrested and charged 41-year-old Terry Claude Tompkins of Temple Hills, MD for the Saturday, July 30, 2022, strong-armed robbery of an employee of the Ace Hardware store in the 800 block of Wayne Avenue.
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42019

Detectives from the Montgomery County Department of Police – Major Crimes Division have arrested 16-year-old, Maynor Josue Bonilla-Flores of Washington and 18-year-old, Cesar De-La-O-Rodriguez of Washington for the December 19, 2021, homicide that occurred in the 13000 block of Ashby Road in Rockville.
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42008

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

Were YOU there? Says who “a third of the guns police are recovering?” And what if they are? Near-religious belief in “registration” as a cure for criminal psychopathy, few if any criminals use firearms that they legally purchase or possess. Again and again the real cause of criminal violence — the criminals — gets ignored in favor of a talismanic belief that if somehow inanimate objects can be controlled the malignancy of corrupted hearts will somehow vanish.

I follow the news reports. My point about ghost guns is that it's too late to regulate. So we are on the same page there. We need more police. But to think ghost guns aren't a problem is foolish. It's so easy to get an 80% glock at a gun show in VA. Lines out the door, no ID checked, no max purchases, and ghost guns are cheap. It makes it easier for bad people to do bad things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.

That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.

It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.

Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.

Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.

So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.

It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.

It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.

You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?

And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?

It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.

Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?

I have a proposal, as a person living on the Purple Line alignment and across Wayne Ave from elementary and middle schools. Take the two MoCo police who are currently performing crossing guard duty at our un-crosswalked/no-beg-light, no stop light location, twice a day EVERY DAY for school walkers. Put those two guys, who are lovely folks and clearly capable of much more specialized work, on patrol in the goddamned parking garage. Install a light, a speeding camera and a pedestrian button at our intersection. Problem(s) closer to being solved.

Also close clubs 3-6 am. It ain’t rocket science. (But note that most of these recent events haven’t been in those hours.)

I wouldn’t be surprised if those officers are officially off-duty and doing that as a second job.

The task force wants fewer police in Silver Spring, not more. It’s clearly stated in their proposal. They suggest a 50% reduction in staffing in Silver Spring to reduce police interactions with the public. I don’t think you’re getting your parking garage officers with the current county exec.

Agreed. And the Chair of that task force is under consideration to fill Eric Luedtke's State Delegate position.


People think getting rid of police helps people of color. It does the EXACT opposite. Those who are most vulnerable in our community become even more vulnerable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

As far as I’m concerned there’s absolutely no difference between a “illegal” gun and a legal gun. They ALL need to be illegal. Period. Ban them all. Give gun nutters a deadline to turn them in, and after that deadline, offer huge bounties or cash rewards for reporting people still in possession of gun(s). Locate people who had previously bought or registered guns and do random, unannounced searches of their homes or other property to ensure they aren’t hiding guns. Anyone caught with a gun after the law goes into effect goes to prison for life without parole. And use the army in conjunction with police to go after the holdouts who refuse to turn theirs in. That’s how you stop this epidemic of violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

As far as I’m concerned there’s absolutely no difference between a “illegal” gun and a legal gun. They ALL need to be illegal. Period. Ban them all. Give gun nutters a deadline to turn them in, and after that deadline, offer huge bounties or cash rewards for reporting people still in possession of gun(s). Locate people who had previously bought or registered guns and do random, unannounced searches of their homes or other property to ensure they aren’t hiding guns. Anyone caught with a gun after the law goes into effect goes to prison for life without parole. And use the army in conjunction with police to go after the holdouts who refuse to turn theirs in. That’s how you stop this epidemic of violence.

That will never work. There will be a ton of bloodshed. And perhaps you don't care about gun owners but do you care about the police and military you want to send in to do that?

Unfortunately, while guns are a real problem, when we remove all firearms-related homicides from the stats, we STILL have a higher homicide rate than all other developed nations. And most of those don't have similar access to guns. We are a violent society, full stop. Planning out longer-term investments in making us less culturally violent would be more effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

As far as I’m concerned there’s absolutely no difference between a “illegal” gun and a legal gun. They ALL need to be illegal. Period. Ban them all. Give gun nutters a deadline to turn them in, and after that deadline, offer huge bounties or cash rewards for reporting people still in possession of gun(s). Locate people who had previously bought or registered guns and do random, unannounced searches of their homes or other property to ensure they aren’t hiding guns. Anyone caught with a gun after the law goes into effect goes to prison for life without parole. And use the army in conjunction with police to go after the holdouts who refuse to turn theirs in. That’s how you stop this epidemic of violence.

The "lets round up all the guns" position is both not serious, and also impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

As far as I’m concerned there’s absolutely no difference between a “illegal” gun and a legal gun. They ALL need to be illegal. Period. Ban them all. Give gun nutters a deadline to turn them in, and after that deadline, offer huge bounties or cash rewards for reporting people still in possession of gun(s). Locate people who had previously bought or registered guns and do random, unannounced searches of their homes or other property to ensure they aren’t hiding guns. Anyone caught with a gun after the law goes into effect goes to prison for life without parole. And use the army in conjunction with police to go after the holdouts who refuse to turn theirs in. That’s how you stop this epidemic of violence.

The "lets round up all the guns" position is both not serious, and also impossible.

It is completely serious, and it is not impossible. The only thing required is the courage to implement it.

I was in Cuba recently. We walked around the streets of Santiago without the slightest concern in the world that we would be robbed at gun point or fall victim to a mass shooter’s killing spree or be hit by a stray bullet from a criminal. Absolutely ZERO fear. None. Nada.

Compare that with America, where you take your life in your hands just buying groceries.

What’s the difference? No one in Cuba has a gun. Period.

See how that works, trumpie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

As far as I’m concerned there’s absolutely no difference between a “illegal” gun and a legal gun. They ALL need to be illegal. Period. Ban them all. Give gun nutters a deadline to turn them in, and after that deadline, offer huge bounties or cash rewards for reporting people still in possession of gun(s). Locate people who had previously bought or registered guns and do random, unannounced searches of their homes or other property to ensure they aren’t hiding guns. Anyone caught with a gun after the law goes into effect goes to prison for life without parole. And use the army in conjunction with police to go after the holdouts who refuse to turn theirs in. That’s how you stop this epidemic of violence.

That will never work. There will be a ton of bloodshed. And perhaps you don't care about gun owners but do you care about the police and military you want to send in to do that?

Unfortunately, while guns are a real problem, when we remove all firearms-related homicides from the stats, we STILL have a higher homicide rate than all other developed nations. And most of those don't have similar access to guns. We are a violent society, full stop. Planning out longer-term investments in making us less culturally violent would be more effective.

Hogwash.

A “ton of bloodshed”? Maybe, but only for the recalcitrants who didn’t turn in their guns. That’s what happens when you go up against the army. Too bad, so sad. As for the police and army dealing with them? They’re getting paid. Give them raises. They signed up for dangerous work. Compensate them accordingly.

As for your second claim, you provided no statistical data to back up your assertion. Although I’m inclined to agree that we are by nature a violent society - made so by the type of people who elected the previous president. All the more reason then to go after their guns.

I’ll concede that eliminating guns might still leave a few examples of people being murdered with knives or whatever other means. Fine. After we eliminate the guns, we can turn our attention to knives and deal with that in due course.

But for now, we must get the guns. That’s where it has to start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.

I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.

I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.

The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.

It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.

I’ll bet you a quarter so called “ghost guns” had precisely nothing to do with this.

Were you there? That’s a weird bet to make. They make up about a third of the illegal guns the police are recovering these days .

As far as I’m concerned there’s absolutely no difference between a “illegal” gun and a legal gun. They ALL need to be illegal. Period. Ban them all. Give gun nutters a deadline to turn them in, and after that deadline, offer huge bounties or cash rewards for reporting people still in possession of gun(s). Locate people who had previously bought or registered guns and do random, unannounced searches of their homes or other property to ensure they aren’t hiding guns. Anyone caught with a gun after the law goes into effect goes to prison for life without parole. And use the army in conjunction with police to go after the holdouts who refuse to turn theirs in. That’s how you stop this epidemic of violence.

That will never work. There will be a ton of bloodshed. And perhaps you don't care about gun owners but do you care about the police and military you want to send in to do that?

Unfortunately, while guns are a real problem, when we remove all firearms-related homicides from the stats, we STILL have a higher homicide rate than all other developed nations. And most of those don't have similar access to guns. We are a violent society, full stop. Planning out longer-term investments in making us less culturally violent would be more effective.

Hogwash.

A “ton of bloodshed”? Maybe, but only for the recalcitrants who didn’t turn in their guns. That’s what happens when you go up against the army. Too bad, so sad. As for the police and army dealing with them? They’re getting paid. Give them raises. They signed up for dangerous work. Compensate them accordingly.

As for your second claim, you provided no statistical data to back up your assertion. Although I’m inclined to agree that we are by nature a violent society - made so by the type of people who elected the previous president. All the more reason then to go after their guns.

I’ll concede that eliminating guns might still leave a few examples of people being murdered with knives or whatever other means. Fine. After we eliminate the guns, we can turn our attention to knives and deal with that in due course.

But for now, we must get the guns. That’s where it has to start.

You will be on the front line of confiscating guns, right? Or are you OK with other people dying just to make your point?

https://econofact.org/gun-violence-in-the-u-s