Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.
The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.
Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.
Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.
There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.
Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.
That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.
It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.
Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.
Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.
So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.
It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.
It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.
You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?
And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?
It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.
Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?
Cops shootings/harassing/falsely arresting citizens is rare should we move on without action or should we be using all availability to olds to prevent them?
Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.
I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.
I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.
The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.
It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.
+1. Ghost guns is just a manifestation of the universal truth that prohibition doesn’t work. Not with drugs, not with guns. Criminals are going to do crimes.
Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.
I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.
I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.
The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.
It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.
+1. Ghost guns is just a manifestation of the universal truth that prohibition doesn’t work. Not with drugs, not with guns. Criminals are going to do crimes.
Ghost guns don't just manifest themselves out of ectoplasm via a seance. And, the average criminal does not have the means, resources or skills to build them from scratch. There is an entire industry around fabricating and selling the parts to make them, which empowers criminals. We haven't even begun to bother chipping away at any of that, let alone "going door to door seizing guns."
Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.
I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.
I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.
The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.
It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.
+1. Ghost guns is just a manifestation of the universal truth that prohibition doesn’t work. Not with drugs, not with guns. Criminals are going to do crimes.
Ghost guns don't just manifest themselves out of ectoplasm via a seance. And, the average criminal does not have the means, resources or skills to build them from scratch. There is an entire industry around fabricating and selling the parts to make them, which empowers criminals. We haven't even begun to bother chipping away at any of that, let alone "going door to door seizing guns."
It's pathetic.
Good luck. I'm sure it will be effective, just like our success getting prohibited drugs off the streets.
Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.
I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.
I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.
The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.
It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.
+1. Ghost guns is just a manifestation of the universal truth that prohibition doesn’t work. Not with drugs, not with guns. Criminals are going to do crimes.
Ghost guns don't just manifest themselves out of ectoplasm via a seance. And, the average criminal does not have the means, resources or skills to build them from scratch. There is an entire industry around fabricating and selling the parts to make them, which empowers criminals. We haven't even begun to bother chipping away at any of that, let alone "going door to door seizing guns."
It's pathetic.
Good luck. I'm sure it will be effective, just like our success getting prohibited drugs off the streets.
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.
The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.
Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.
Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.
There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.
Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.
That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.
It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.
Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.
Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.
So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.
It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.
It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.
You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?
And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?
It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.
Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?
Considering that substantially more effort is put into preventing a handful of deaths by cyclists every year it would seem to me that there the allocation of and distribution of resources is off.
Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.
I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.
I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.
The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.
It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.
It was too late long before ghost guns. Our best option now is empowering police to get illegal guns off the streets.
Wow. One would think they already had that authority. The guns in question being illegal, and the police being in the business of law enforcement, and all that.
Anonymous wrote:As someone who knew the man murdered and his family I also would really like it if we could focus on the actual issues at hand.
I think the bigger issue is that we need to reduce the number of guns in our country.
I also know of a young woman in her early 20s who killed herself this week.
The common denominator in both deaths was that both people died by gun. Fewer guns would really help.
It’s too late. Ghost guns were a game changer. People are making them on 3D printers now.
It was too late long before ghost guns. Our best option now is empowering police to get illegal guns off the streets.
Wow. One would think they already had that authority. The guns in question being illegal, and the police being in the business of law enforcement, and all that.
It isn’t that simple. Police in Montgomery County generally no longer do pre-textual stops, which is when guns are commonly found. This change is in response to county politicians’ decisions. We can agree there are problems with pre-textual stops, but the byproduct of ending them are fewer gun arrests.
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.
The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.
Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.
Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.
There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.
Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.
That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.
It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.
Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.
Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.
So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.
It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.
It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.
You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?
And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?
It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.
Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?
I have a proposal, as a person living on the Purple Line alignment and across Wayne Ave from elementary and middle schools. Take the two MoCo police who are currently performing crossing guard duty at our un-crosswalked/no-beg-light, no stop light location, twice a day EVERY DAY for school walkers. Put those two guys, who are lovely folks and clearly capable of much more specialized work, on patrol in the goddamned parking garage. Install a light, a speeding camera and a pedestrian button at our intersection. Problem(s) closer to being solved.
Also close clubs 3-6 am. It ain’t rocket science. (But note that most of these recent events haven’t been in those hours.)
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
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