Should so called “thanksgiving” be a national day of mourning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

The atrocities perpetrated on Native Americans are not just historical footnotes from long ago. The effects of centuries of oppression of Native Americans are still felt very keenly today. They continue to suffer disproportionately from poverty, alcoholism, lack of access to appropriate medical care, and domestic violence. Native American women and girls are murdered at a far higher rate than women in general. We don’t need to feel guilt over how we got to this place, but we certainly shouldn’t turn a blind eye to suffering and pretend that it’s not relevant to us.

+1000

Plus, if you step foot on this continent you are occupying stolen land.

How could it be “stolen” from people who had no private property that they owned to begin with?

Huh? Because they didn’t have written land deeds recorded at the county courthouse it didn’t belong to them?

A tribe can only hold onto land until a stronger tribe comes along and takes it from them. That's the way of the world.

No, we're not giving our land back to tribes that couldn't hold onto it in the first place.

Question here, would you support more modern day colonization? If the US is a "stronger tribe" why do we not just go overtake a lot more land mass than we already have? We are getting crowded and low on natural resources....why not go take them?

Trust me if we needed to, we would. The same way if your children were hungry, you'd steal from your neighbor.

But what does it mean to "need to." Did the early settlers "need to" take over this land? And later did the British government "need to" formally invade and take over?

I read the PP as saying that it is "the way of the world" for people to just take what they want as long as they have the force to do it.

Yes actually European immigration was largely based on necessity. Things like famine and class/religious persecution. The wealthy few were exploiting the whole thing for massive personal gain but that is still happening today.

This is not a well-informed viewpoint. The formal government of the country invaded, and it wasn't because of either famine or class/religious persecution.

The formal “government”?! You mean a brutal blood-line Monarchy that had perfected the art of subjugation over the course of thousands of years? That’s the fault of the commoner?

I'm not sure what you are taking issue with. One PP said that populations should only colonize out of necessity. Another said that there was a necessity because of poverty and starvation. I said that was not the reason. It was the government (say rulers if you want) that did it to gain more wealth.

Where do you see a fault in that?

The Kings stayed in Europe. The actual human beings that physically immigrated to the continent were largely escaping horrible oppression and poverty in Europe. Those are simple facts. I have no idea what is so confusing about that. It’s documented historical fact.

What group of people, specifically, are you talking about?

I don’t dispute that there were poor people involved. But your reductionist view is simply not “documented historical fact.”

DP. This is AP US History. The Quakers came to escape persecution and settled in Pennsylvania. The Catholics came to Maryland to escape persecution. The pilgrims, Moravians, and others left Europe to escape persecution. Many others were poor and looking for new opportunities, or they came over as indentured servants.

Catholics settled in Maryland because THE KING OF ENGLAND gave Lord Baltimore a land grant in exchange for a share of the profits from the colonization.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-settlement-of-maryland

So the king solved two problems: new settlers to develop the land and (self) deportation of some religious dissidents. He also created a new revenue stream for the monarchy.

Thank you for agreeing with me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

The atrocities perpetrated on Native Americans are not just historical footnotes from long ago. The effects of centuries of oppression of Native Americans are still felt very keenly today. They continue to suffer disproportionately from poverty, alcoholism, lack of access to appropriate medical care, and domestic violence. Native American women and girls are murdered at a far higher rate than women in general. We don’t need to feel guilt over how we got to this place, but we certainly shouldn’t turn a blind eye to suffering and pretend that it’s not relevant to us.

+1000

Plus, if you step foot on this continent you are occupying stolen land.

How could it be “stolen” from people who had no private property that they owned to begin with?

Huh? Because they didn’t have written land deeds recorded at the county courthouse it didn’t belong to them?

A tribe can only hold onto land until a stronger tribe comes along and takes it from them. That's the way of the world.

No, we're not giving our land back to tribes that couldn't hold onto it in the first place.

Question here, would you support more modern day colonization? If the US is a "stronger tribe" why do we not just go overtake a lot more land mass than we already have? We are getting crowded and low on natural resources....why not go take them?

Trust me if we needed to, we would. The same way if your children were hungry, you'd steal from your neighbor.

But what does it mean to "need to." Did the early settlers "need to" take over this land? And later did the British government "need to" formally invade and take over?

I read the PP as saying that it is "the way of the world" for people to just take what they want as long as they have the force to do it.

Yes actually European immigration was largely based on necessity. Things like famine and class/religious persecution. The wealthy few were exploiting the whole thing for massive personal gain but that is still happening today.

This is not a well-informed viewpoint. The formal government of the country invaded, and it wasn't because of either famine or class/religious persecution.

The formal “government”?! You mean a brutal blood-line Monarchy that had perfected the art of subjugation over the course of thousands of years? That’s the fault of the commoner?

I'm not sure what you are taking issue with. One PP said that populations should only colonize out of necessity. Another said that there was a necessity because of poverty and starvation. I said that was not the reason. It was the government (say rulers if you want) that did it to gain more wealth.

Where do you see a fault in that?

The Kings stayed in Europe. The actual human beings that physically immigrated to the continent were largely escaping horrible oppression and poverty in Europe. Those are simple facts. I have no idea what is so confusing about that. It’s documented historical fact.

What group of people, specifically, are you talking about?

I don’t dispute that there were poor people involved. But your reductionist view is simply not “documented historical fact.”

DP. This is AP US History. The Quakers came to escape persecution and settled in Pennsylvania. The Catholics came to Maryland to escape persecution. The pilgrims, Moravians, and others left Europe to escape persecution. Many others were poor and looking for new opportunities, or they came over as indentured servants.

The Quakers settled in Pennsylvania because William Penn was given a land grant BY THE KING OF ENGLAND.

https://www.history.com/topics/immigration/history-of-quakerism

He was also the son of a wealthy politician who got the colony in part because the king owed his dad money. He also was genuinely persecuted for his Quaker beliefs. It's complicated, and PP was right to call the "largely escaping horrible oppression and poverty" view reductionist.

-NP

Oh but the view that colonization was not necessary but purely economic is not reductionist as well? How does one make that distinction?

I'm the PP who pointed out the economic factors. I also said that there were poor people and religious dissidents involved. And the reason why I was emphasizing this point is because you were asserting that it is "documented historical fact", "simple fact" and "AP US History" that THE REASON was people came here was to "escape horrible poverty and persecution." That is a reductionist view, and the primary one that was historically taught in this country, and the one that needs to be challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:List of ritual sacrifices by Aztecs by month:

Atlacacauallo (from February 2 to February 21) Tláloc, Chalchitlicue, Ehécatl Sacrifice of children and captives to the water deities
II Tlacaxipehualiztli (from February 22 to March 13) Xipe Tótec, Huitzilopochtli, Tequitzin-Mayáhuel Sacrifice of captives; gladiatorial fighters; dances of the priest wearing the skin of the flayed victims
III Tozoztontli (from March 14 to April 2) Coatlicue, Tlaloc, Chalchitlicue, Tona Type of sacrifice: extraction of the heart; burying of the flayed human skins; sacrifices of children
IV Hueytozoztli (from April 3 to April 22) Cintéotl, Chicomecacóatl, Tlaloc, Quetzalcoatl Sacrifice of a maid; of boy and girl
V Toxcatl (from April 23 to May 12) Tezcatlipoca, Huitzilopochtli, Tlacahuepan, Cuexcotzin Sacrifice of captives by extraction of the heart
VI Etzalcualiztli (from May 13 to June 1) Tláloc, Quetzalcoatl Sacrifice by drowning and extraction of the heart
VII Tecuilhuitontli (from June 2 to June 21) Huixtocihuatl, Xochipilli Sacrifice by extraction of the heart
VIII Hueytecuihutli (from June 22 to July 11) Xilonen, Quilaztli-Cihacóatl, Ehécatl, Chicomelcóatl Sacrifice by decapitation of a woman and extraction of her heart
IX Tlaxochimaco (from July 12 to July 31) Huitzilopochtli, Tezcatlipoca, Mictlantecuhtli Sacrifice by starvation in a cave or temple
X Xocotlhuetzin (from August 1 to August 20) Xiuhtecuhtli, Ixcozauhqui, Otontecuhtli, Chiconquiáhitl, Cuahtlaxayauh, Coyolintáhuatl, Chalmecacíhuatl Sacrifices to the fire gods by burning the victims
XI Ochpaniztli (from August 21 to September 9) Toci, Teteoinan, Chimelcóatl-Chalchiuhcíhuatl, Atlatonin, Atlauhaco, Chiconquiáuitl, Cintéotl Sacrifice of a decapitated young woman to Toci; she was skinned and a young man wore her skin; sacrifice of captives by hurling from a height and extraction of the heart
XII Teoleco (from September 10 to September 29) Xochiquétzal Sacrifices by fire; extraction of the heart
XIII Tepeihuitl (from September 30 to October 19) Tláloc-Napatecuhtli, Matlalcueye, Xochitécatl, Mayáhuel, Milnáhuatl, Napatecuhtli, Chicomecóatl, Xochiquétzal Sacrifices of children, two noble women, extraction of the heart and flaying; ritual cannibalism
XIV Quecholli (from October 20 to November 8) Mixcóatl-Tlamatzincatl, Coatlicue, Izquitécatl, Yoztlamiyáhual, Huitznahuas Sacrifice by bludgeoning, decapitation and extraction of the heart
XV Panquetzaliztli (from November 9 to November 28) Huitzilopochtli Massive sacrifices of captives and slaves by extraction of the heart
XVI Atemoztli (from November 29 to December 18) Tlaloques Sacrifices of children and slaves by decapitation
XVII Tititl (from December 19 to January 7) Tona-Cozcamiauh, Ilamatecuhtli, Yacatecuhtli, Huitzilncuátec Sacrifice of a woman by extraction of the heart and decapitation afterwards
XVIII Izcalli (from January 8 to January 27) Ixozauhqui-Xiuhtecuhtli, Cihuatontli, Nancotlaceuhqui Sacrifices of victims representing Xiuhtecuhtli and their women (each four years), and captives; hour: night; New Fire
Nemontemi (from January 28 to February 1) Five ominous days at the end of the year, no ritual, general fasting

They most likely sacrificed so many because of overcrowding, religious beliefs, and a need to enforce a societal hierarchy.

Can you connect the dots for me on the relevance to this conversation?
Because right now all I can gather is that you are saying "One group did this one bad thing to one group of people, so it is OK for another group to do a completely different bad thing to a completely different group of people."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

Ok. The Comanche Nation can decide how to address violence it committed against other tribes.

And the US government can determine how to address violence it committed against all tribes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

It’s not about personal guilt or responsibility. It’s doing what we can to acknowledge the massive wrongs committed by our government and to fix what we can. Being part of this country’s future means dealing with this country’s past.

I have no interest on dwelling on the past. Thanks.

You get the bad with the good. It’s not a la cart.

Wrong! I’m doing a great job of celebrating the good and mostly ignoring the bad. Thanks for coming, though.

It is what it is. It won’t go away if you put your head in the sand.

Neat. You’re still wrong.

You ignoring the bad actions of our country doesn’t make them go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

It’s not about personal guilt or responsibility. It’s doing what we can to acknowledge the massive wrongs committed by our government and to fix what we can. Being part of this country’s future means dealing with this country’s past.

I have no interest on dwelling on the past. Thanks.

You get the bad with the good. It’s not a la cart.

Wrong! I’m doing a great job of celebrating the good and mostly ignoring the bad. Thanks for coming, though.

It is what it is. It won’t go away if you put your head in the sand.

Neat. You’re still wrong.

You ignoring the bad actions of our country doesn’t make them go away.

I mean, yeah, it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

Ok. The Comanche Nation can decide how to address violence it committed against other tribes.

And the US government can determine how to address violence it committed against all tribes.

The government has already given them tax free land where the US has no jurisdiction (can’t make arrests or enforce laws, can’t repossess cars they default on, etc). The government also gave them gaming rights/casinos which more than support some tribes.

The end result of their arguably privileged status isn’t great (rampant alcoholism and family violence/sexual abuse/murder-“disappearance.”

They got what freed slaves never got. Hard to say who fared better. Their self-imposed segregation gave them land, money and autonomy, but they were also largely forgotten on the east coast and elsewhere. Plus all the bad stuff that happens on their land due to their set up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

It’s not about personal guilt or responsibility. It’s doing what we can to acknowledge the massive wrongs committed by our government and to fix what we can. Being part of this country’s future means dealing with this country’s past.

I have no interest on dwelling on the past. Thanks.

You get the bad with the good. It’s not a la cart.

Wrong! I’m doing a great job of celebrating the good and mostly ignoring the bad. Thanks for coming, though.

It is what it is. It won’t go away if you put your head in the sand.

Neat. You’re still wrong.

You ignoring the bad actions of our country doesn’t make them go away.

I mean, yeah, it does.

No, the bad actions happened. You’re just ignoring them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

Ok. The Comanche Nation can decide how to address violence it committed against other tribes.

And the US government can determine how to address violence it committed against all tribes.

The government has already given them tax free land where the US has no jurisdiction (can’t make arrests or enforce laws, can’t repossess cars they default on, etc). The government also gave them gaming rights/casinos which more than support some tribes.

The end result of their arguably privileged status isn’t great (rampant alcoholism and family violence/sexual abuse/murder-“disappearance.”

They got what freed slaves never got. Hard to say who fared better. Their self-imposed segregation gave them land, money and autonomy, but they were also largely forgotten on the east coast and elsewhere. Plus all the bad stuff that happens on their land due to their set up.

“Privileged” to get crappy scraps of land?

“Privileged” to be massacred?

“Privileged” to be forced to assimilate?

The US killed them, took their resources, took their culture. And you blame them for their current condition? Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

The atrocities perpetrated on Native Americans are not just historical footnotes from long ago. The effects of centuries of oppression of Native Americans are still felt very keenly today. They continue to suffer disproportionately from poverty, alcoholism, lack of access to appropriate medical care, and domestic violence. Native American women and girls are murdered at a far higher rate than women in general. We don’t need to feel guilt over how we got to this place, but we certainly shouldn’t turn a blind eye to suffering and pretend that it’s not relevant to us.

Exactly.

We should responsibility for the actions of our own government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

Ok. The Comanche Nation can decide how to address violence it committed against other tribes.

And the US government can determine how to address violence it committed against all tribes.

The government has already given them tax free land where the US has no jurisdiction (can’t make arrests or enforce laws, can’t repossess cars they default on, etc). The government also gave them gaming rights/casinos which more than support some tribes.

The end result of their arguably privileged status isn’t great (rampant alcoholism and family violence/sexual abuse/murder-“disappearance.”

They got what freed slaves never got. Hard to say who fared better. Their self-imposed segregation gave them land, money and autonomy, but they were also largely forgotten on the east coast and elsewhere. Plus all the bad stuff that happens on their land due to their set up.

“Privileged” to get crappy scraps of land?

“Privileged” to be massacred?

“Privileged” to be forced to assimilate?

The US killed them, took their resources, took their culture. And you blame them for their current condition? Disgusting.

DP. You need to read a bit better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

The atrocities perpetrated on Native Americans are not just historical footnotes from long ago. The effects of centuries of oppression of Native Americans are still felt very keenly today. They continue to suffer disproportionately from poverty, alcoholism, lack of access to appropriate medical care, and domestic violence. Native American women and girls are murdered at a far higher rate than women in general. We don’t need to feel guilt over how we got to this place, but we certainly shouldn’t turn a blind eye to suffering and pretend that it’s not relevant to us.

Are American Indians citizens of separate sovereign countries? Or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

Ok. The Comanche Nation can decide how to address violence it committed against other tribes.

And the US government can determine how to address violence it committed against all tribes.

The government has already given them tax free land where the US has no jurisdiction (can’t make arrests or enforce laws, can’t repossess cars they default on, etc). The government also gave them gaming rights/casinos which more than support some tribes.

The end result of their arguably privileged status isn’t great (rampant alcoholism and family violence/sexual abuse/murder-“disappearance.”

They got what freed slaves never got. Hard to say who fared better. Their self-imposed segregation gave them land, money and autonomy, but they were also largely forgotten on the east coast and elsewhere. Plus all the bad stuff that happens on their land due to their set up.

the US government has given the tribes tax free land?

I can't even begin with this sentence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

The atrocities perpetrated on Native Americans are not just historical footnotes from long ago. The effects of centuries of oppression of Native Americans are still felt very keenly today. They continue to suffer disproportionately from poverty, alcoholism, lack of access to appropriate medical care, and domestic violence. Native American women and girls are murdered at a far higher rate than women in general. We don’t need to feel guilt over how we got to this place, but we certainly shouldn’t turn a blind eye to suffering and pretend that it’s not relevant to us.

Are American Indians citizens of separate sovereign countries? Or not?

they have had dual citizenship since 1924

read a book