Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What EC wins the admission game? Fencing? Women’s crew? Squash?

Being a recruited athlete definitely helps. But the recruited athletes at schools like Harvard, Duke, and Princeton are also extremely qualified. In some cases, the athletes perform better than most of the student body academically. The big exceptions would be Duke's major D1 sports like basketball, football, etc. But if we're talking non-athletics, do a summer program like RSI or do research that gets recognized by Regeneron.

the age-old DCUM lie. Harvard admissions data is very clear that recruited athletes academic ratings are substantially inferior to those of other admitted students.

Is it a problem for schools to choose to admit some people with slightly lower GPAs and/or test scores if they are also in the top few percent at something the university, its community, and alumni base value? I don't see it as an issue as long as the students are contributing to campus life and earning their degrees. Most of these schools could fill multiple classes of students with just near perfect GPAs and scores but have intentionally not wanted to be so myopic.

At elite colleges, athletes themselves have also turned out pretty well as donors in many cases (see D3 athletes like the Koch brothers at MIT and Kravis at Claremont McKenna).

it's not a problem at all. The problem is pretending these recruits are on the same academic footing as other admits when they are not even close while at the same time trumpeting that other hooked groups are academically deficient.

The fact that athletes and donors turn out pretty well is meaningless because the more academically qualified students they displace could have done equally well.

Oh poor baby’s feelings are hurt because they spent every waking hour in the library with nothing to show for it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What EC wins the admission game? Fencing? Women’s crew? Squash?

Being a recruited athlete definitely helps. But the recruited athletes at schools like Harvard, Duke, and Princeton are also extremely qualified. In some cases, the athletes perform better than most of the student body academically. The big exceptions would be Duke's major D1 sports like basketball, football, etc. But if we're talking non-athletics, do a summer program like RSI or do research that gets recognized by Regeneron.

the age-old DCUM lie. Harvard admissions data is very clear that recruited athletes academic ratings are substantially inferior to those of other admitted students.

Is it a problem for schools to choose to admit some people with slightly lower GPAs and/or test scores if they are also in the top few percent at something the university, its community, and alumni base value? I don't see it as an issue as long as the students are contributing to campus life and earning their degrees. Most of these schools could fill multiple classes of students with just near perfect GPAs and scores but have intentionally not wanted to be so myopic.

At elite colleges, athletes themselves have also turned out pretty well as donors in many cases (see D3 athletes like the Koch brothers at MIT and Kravis at Claremont McKenna).

it's not a problem at all. The problem is pretending these recruits are on the same academic footing as other admits when they are not even close while at the same time trumpeting that other hooked groups are academically deficient.

The fact that athletes and donors turn out pretty well is meaningless because the more academically qualified students they displace could have done equally well.

Oh poor baby’s feelings are hurt because they spent every waking hour in the library with nothing to show for it

except for their stanford diploma, you are correct. But the reality is that you can mock me and my kid all you want, but the undeniable fact remains, despite best efforts to whitewash the truth, that athletic recruits to elite colleges are less academically qualified than their fellow admits. and i don't use the word 'whitewash' randomly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

The vast, vast majority of these schools are in uncompetitive areas where the salutatorian/valedictorian are going to test rather poorly just like the rest of their school. A 1580 is over 99th percentile on the SAT, less than 1000 salutatorians with a score like that is reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

The vast, vast majority of these schools are in uncompetitive areas where the salutatorian/valedictorian are going to test rather poorly just like the rest of their school. A 1580 is over 99th percentile on the SAT, less than 1000 salutatorians with a score like that is reasonable.

So, no source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

The vast, vast majority of these schools are in uncompetitive areas where the salutatorian/valedictorian are going to test rather poorly just like the rest of their school. A 1580 is over 99th percentile on the SAT, less than 1000 salutatorians with a score like that is reasonable.

So, no source?

https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/scores/1580-SAT-score-is-this-good#:~:text=1580%20SAT%20Score%20Standings&text=Out%20of%20the%202.13%20million,same%20or%20higher%20than%20you.&text=You%20can%20apply%20to%201498,good%20shot%20at%20getting%20admitted.&text=You%20have%20a%20very%20low,0%20schools%20with%20this%20score.

Out of 2.13 million test takers, 3,260 kids scored the same or higher than a 1580. Not all of these kids are going to be salutatorian.

[Anonymous]

Harvard and Princeton are two of the finest academic institutions in the world. Duke is a Southern backwater where you send your kid if you want them to become the next Stephen Miller or Eric Greitens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Princeton are two of the finest academic institutions in the world. Duke is a Southern backwater where you send your kid if you want them to become the next Stephen Miller or Eric Greitens.

Completely false. Duke is one of the best schools in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

The vast, vast majority of these schools are in uncompetitive areas where the salutatorian/valedictorian are going to test rather poorly just like the rest of their school. A 1580 is over 99th percentile on the SAT, less than 1000 salutatorians with a score like that is reasonable.

This is such a stupid statement . Less than 1000 my ass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

The vast, vast majority of these schools are in uncompetitive areas where the salutatorian/valedictorian are going to test rather poorly just like the rest of their school. A 1580 is over 99th percentile on the SAT, less than 1000 salutatorians with a score like that is reasonable.

This is such a stupid statement . Less than 1000 my ass

It seems reasonable. There are only ~4000 people who score a 1580 or higher. Most schools don't have salutatorians, and the most of the ones that do are not competitive schools anyways. 1000 people seems fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Princeton are two of the finest academic institutions in the world. Duke is a Southern backwater where you send your kid if you want them to become the next Stephen Miller or Eric Greitens.

??? So is Princeton a backwater where you send your kid if you want them to become the next Ted Cruz? Is Harvard a backwater where you send them if you want them to become the next Jared Kushner???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Princeton are two of the finest academic institutions in the world. Duke is a Southern backwater where you send your kid if you want them to become the next Stephen Miller or Eric Greitens.

Ironically Eric Greitens turned down Harvard to go to Duke as an undergrad. He apparently became a jerk after his time with the marines, which wouldn't be the first time that happened to someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

No chance is a bit harsh. There are less than 1000 salutatorians in the country who have a 1580+ SAT or equivalent ACT. OP's son is also well-rounded and has leadership along with national level awards according to OP. His son should be competitive for these schools, of course no guarantees he gets into any of them.

Where does the "less than 1000 salutatorians" come from? There are 26,727 high schools in the US. I bet there are a lot of salutatorians with a SAT above 1550 which is not much different 1580.

The vast, vast majority of these schools are in uncompetitive areas where the salutatorian/valedictorian are going to test rather poorly just like the rest of their school. A 1580 is over 99th percentile on the SAT, less than 1000 salutatorians with a score like that is reasonable.

This is such a stupid statement . Less than 1000 my ass

It seems reasonable. There are only ~4000 people who score a 1580 or higher. Most schools don't have salutatorians, and the most of the ones that do are not competitive schools anyways. 1000 people seems fair.

Is it roughly 4000 each time the test is administered or per year? If each time it’s administered, the total number of kids each year with that score will be probably 20,000.
I do agree though that many schools don’t rank and thus don’t name salutatorians and that at many schools the top students won’t have such a high score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread grow to 15+ pages with some incredulity, given the state of college apps in 2022. Why do posters think this student particularly has a chance at any of these schools? It feels like other threads are all piling on, saying "no chance" even to kids with stellar stats. I have one of these students in my house and we are playing it very, very safe with applications. I wouldn't presume any of these schools are possible without a very spiky talent or hook. Maybe I've been reading too many DCUM College threads!

I haven’t read everything here but don’t give up hope. My kids attend the schools mentioned here and they were, aside being good students, did not have national-level accomplishments. They did have perfect graces however. Craft a coherent narrative, consistently sell the heck out of it across all the essays and hope it resonates. Good luck.