Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

This is the sort of reasoning that gets me about teachers.
1) Don't you think many of us spend all Sunday working not unoccassionally? Inc & esp nonprofit workers?
2) Don't you think that many of us have to sit in our car during meets to grade?
3) don' you think many of us work 55+ a week?
I find it amazing that teachers think they are entitled to not work b/c their kids have a game.

Do some professionals work over 40? Of course. Do most? No, I’m not buying it. Look no further than DCUM for threads about working only 15-20 hours a week at full-time jobs.

And where did I say that I am entitled to not work because my kid has a game? Guess what? I work at EVERY game and EVERY practice. I’d like the ability to watch one of these days without having a stack of papers on my lap. Is that acting entitled?

Seriously, the disrespect throughout this thread is a perfect illustration of why teachers are quitting.

My sense from your post was that you think it's outrageous that you have to work during every game.

Shouldn’t I find that outrageous? Should I be okay with the idea that half my job (the planning, the grading, the data collection and analysis, the parent contacts, the mandatory trainings) all have to be done outside work hours? I get 3 hours of unscheduled time at work each week to do ALL of that. You don’t find that outrageous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

Well, at 60 hours a week during the school year and 25-30 hours a week during my unpaid summer, I definitely feel underpaid. If your reasoning for keeping teachers’ pay low is some perceived idea of days off, then consider yourself corrected. Today was a day off. I worked 8 hours prepping for next week. I’ll finish planning tomorrow, on Labor Day.

Don’t confuse “days off” with “days not working.” The only difference to me is that I can pee when I want to on weekends and during the summer.

Stop it. You aren't working that much.

Guess what? Some teachers ABSOLUTELY work this much. Let’s take a look at teachers who have to grade essays. If you figure 10 minutes an essay for 140 students, that’s over 23 hours of grading for that assignment alone. The teaching doesn’t stop and the tons of other duties don’t stop, so that happens on your own time. Or… consider the teacher at an understaffed school who has to spend every free moment covering a class. ALL planning and grading has to happen at home. And summers? That’s time for curriculum revisions, additional coursework, etc.

We can ignore reality all we want, but teachers are leaving because this is what they are experiencing.

The problem with many teachers is that they have no idea of how most white collar professions work --- they think others don't struggle with hours, working outside of hours, burnout politics, I don't get days off when my kid is sick and don't think I should, staffing shortages, increasing demands (although the last is pretty bad in teaching, I will give you that). It's shocking to me how unequipped teachers are to work in other professions and don't know basic office norms. There is bound to be someone who comes on and says "I worked in investment banking and now teach it's so much harder." Fine. But for a nonprofit , mission - oriented job, the conditions aren't really all that different elsewhere. Outside bathroom breaks.
There are also very few barriers to entry in some teaching jobs. Not so in other jobs.
I thought about teaching. I felt like i wasn't for me, b/c it would be the same job for years --you couldn't advance. I don't know how true that really is, and knew even less in my 20s. It didn't have to do with $ in my case but it just seemed like i twasn't a job for an ambitious person. That should change.

The problem with many non-teachers is that they have no idea of how the teaching profession works. (I can use that argument, too.) I could write on and on about increased responsibilities placed on teachers as my proof, but that would simply be rehashing what others have said on this thread.

My issue is with your assumption that teachers aren’t ambitious. I am a very ambitious person. My ambition just doesn’t resemble yours. I don’t aspire to a fancy office or title. What I want is for the 2,400 students I have already taught, and the many to come, to be a bit better off because they were in my class. I want them to have more confidence in their academic abilities. I want them to go into this world reflecting the drive, discipline, and self-respect that is modeled in my classroom. Positively affecting the lives of others is an ambitious goal. Fortunately, I had strong teachers as my models and mentors. Unfortunately, that’s who is currently leaving the classroom. This profession is dying because people can only give so much of themselves before it becomes unsustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

Well, at 60 hours a week during the school year and 25-30 hours a week during my unpaid summer, I definitely feel underpaid. If your reasoning for keeping teachers’ pay low is some perceived idea of days off, then consider yourself corrected. Today was a day off. I worked 8 hours prepping for next week. I’ll finish planning tomorrow, on Labor Day.

Don’t confuse “days off” with “days not working.” The only difference to me is that I can pee when I want to on weekends and during the summer.

Stop it. You aren't working that much.

Guess what? Some teachers ABSOLUTELY work this much. Let’s take a look at teachers who have to grade essays. If you figure 10 minutes an essay for 140 students, that’s over 23 hours of grading for that assignment alone. The teaching doesn’t stop and the tons of other duties don’t stop, so that happens on your own time. Or… consider the teacher at an understaffed school who has to spend every free moment covering a class. ALL planning and grading has to happen at home. And summers? That’s time for curriculum revisions, additional coursework, etc.

We can ignore reality all we want, but teachers are leaving because this is what they are experiencing.

The problem with many teachers is that they have no idea of how most white collar professions work --- they think others don't struggle with hours, working outside of hours, burnout politics, I don't get days off when my kid is sick and don't think I should, staffing shortages, increasing demands (although the last is pretty bad in teaching, I will give you that). It's shocking to me how unequipped teachers are to work in other professions and don't know basic office norms. There is bound to be someone who comes on and says "I worked in investment banking and now teach it's so much harder." Fine. But for a nonprofit , mission - oriented job, the conditions aren't really all that different elsewhere. Outside bathroom breaks.
There are also very few barriers to entry in some teaching jobs. Not so in other jobs.
I thought about teaching. I felt like i wasn't for me, b/c it would be the same job for years --you couldn't advance. I don't know how true that really is, and knew even less in my 20s. It didn't have to do with $ in my case but it just seemed like i twasn't a job for an ambitious person. That should change.

That's the thing though, I think people DO know how white collar professions work, but the whole point is that teacher pay is not comparable to most other white collar professions. If the expectation is that teachers function like "white collar workers" (fine)...pay them like white collar workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

Huh?

We're comparing annual income levels. The average teacher in this thread appears to make about $80 and have a cumulative 3 months off a year. It doesn't matter if they actually receive a paycheck during the summer months - they're still paid $80k a year.

[Anonymous]

I my experience, one thing that teachers often fail to appreciate about their profession is the structure of the school year. Meaning, they get to (mostly) forget about work for an extended period of time each year. That mental break/reset/refresh isn't available in basically any other profession and it's tremendously valuable. The rest of us are grinding for 40 years straight and it's exhausting.

This isn't to devalue their work by any means, but it's a benefit that's often overlooked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nurses and teachers are way underpaid.

120k was starting salary for 2023 undergraduates in many business and IT majors

Except for the fact that's not true.

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensation/pages/class-of-2021-starting-salaries-rebound.aspx

Some specific jobs may pay that well, but they're pretty rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

This is the sort of reasoning that gets me about teachers.
1) Don't you think many of us spend all Sunday working not unoccassionally? Inc & esp nonprofit workers?
2) Don't you think that many of us have to sit in our car during meets to grade?
3) don' you think many of us work 55+ a week?
I find it amazing that teachers think they are entitled to not work b/c their kids have a game.

Do some professionals work over 40? Of course. Do most? No, I’m not buying it. Look no further than DCUM for threads about working only 15-20 hours a week at full-time jobs.

And where did I say that I am entitled to not work because my kid has a game? Guess what? I work at EVERY game and EVERY practice. I’d like the ability to watch one of these days without having a stack of papers on my lap. Is that acting entitled?

Seriously, the disrespect throughout this thread is a perfect illustration of why teachers are quitting.

My sense from your post was that you think it's outrageous that you have to work during every game.

Shouldn’t I find that outrageous? Should I be okay with the idea that half my job (the planning, the grading, the data collection and analysis, the parent contacts, the mandatory trainings) all have to be done outside work hours? I get 3 hours of unscheduled time at work each week to do ALL of that. You don’t find that outrageous?

I would 100% support better hours & pay for teachers. But as someone who also works in a mission-based profession paid slightly more than teachers (but way more than most hands-on, direct service delivery professions) it would be shocking to me if I could accomplish my work in the # of hours in a teachers official work day. What I am trying to say that most teachers don't get is that this is not unique to teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

Well, at 60 hours a week during the school year and 25-30 hours a week during my unpaid summer, I definitely feel underpaid. If your reasoning for keeping teachers’ pay low is some perceived idea of days off, then consider yourself corrected. Today was a day off. I worked 8 hours prepping for next week. I’ll finish planning tomorrow, on Labor Day.

Don’t confuse “days off” with “days not working.” The only difference to me is that I can pee when I want to on weekends and during the summer.

Stop it. You aren't working that much.

Guess what? Some teachers ABSOLUTELY work this much. Let’s take a look at teachers who have to grade essays. If you figure 10 minutes an essay for 140 students, that’s over 23 hours of grading for that assignment alone. The teaching doesn’t stop and the tons of other duties don’t stop, so that happens on your own time. Or… consider the teacher at an understaffed school who has to spend every free moment covering a class. ALL planning and grading has to happen at home. And summers? That’s time for curriculum revisions, additional coursework, etc.

We can ignore reality all we want, but teachers are leaving because this is what they are experiencing.

The problem with many teachers is that they have no idea of how most white collar professions work --- they think others don't struggle with hours, working outside of hours, burnout politics, I don't get days off when my kid is sick and don't think I should, staffing shortages, increasing demands (although the last is pretty bad in teaching, I will give you that). It's shocking to me how unequipped teachers are to work in other professions and don't know basic office norms. There is bound to be someone who comes on and says "I worked in investment banking and now teach it's so much harder." Fine. But for a nonprofit , mission - oriented job, the conditions aren't really all that different elsewhere. Outside bathroom breaks.
There are also very few barriers to entry in some teaching jobs. Not so in other jobs.
I thought about teaching. I felt like i wasn't for me, b/c it would be the same job for years --you couldn't advance. I don't know how true that really is, and knew even less in my 20s. It didn't have to do with $ in my case but it just seemed like i twasn't a job for an ambitious person. That should change.

The problem with many non-teachers is that they have no idea of how the teaching profession works. (I can use that argument, too.) I could write on and on about increased responsibilities placed on teachers as my proof, but that would simply be rehashing what others have said on this thread.

My issue is with your assumption that teachers aren’t ambitious. I am a very ambitious person. My ambition just doesn’t resemble yours. I don’t aspire to a fancy office or title. What I want is for the 2,400 students I have already taught, and the many to come, to be a bit better off because they were in my class. I want them to have more confidence in their academic abilities. I want them to go into this world reflecting the drive, discipline, and self-respect that is modeled in my classroom. Positively affecting the lives of others is an ambitious goal. Fortunately, I had strong teachers as my models and mentors. Unfortunately, that’s who is currently leaving the classroom. This profession is dying because people can only give so much of themselves before it becomes unsustainable.

PP here. It's a different sort of ambition. A pure and good one, i would say. But it's not the same. I am not saying that I look down on teachers as not being ambitious, but to say that i wouldn't fit the type of ambition I have. I actually think the teachers are doing more of the right thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

This is the sort of reasoning that gets me about teachers.
1) Don't you think many of us spend all Sunday working not unoccassionally? Inc & esp nonprofit workers?
2) Don't you think that many of us have to sit in our car during meets to grade?
3) don' you think many of us work 55+ a week?
I find it amazing that teachers think they are entitled to not work b/c their kids have a game.

Do some professionals work over 40? Of course. Do most? No, I’m not buying it. Look no further than DCUM for threads about working only 15-20 hours a week at full-time jobs.

And where did I say that I am entitled to not work because my kid has a game? Guess what? I work at EVERY game and EVERY practice. I’d like the ability to watch one of these days without having a stack of papers on my lap. Is that acting entitled?

Seriously, the disrespect throughout this thread is a perfect illustration of why teachers are quitting.

My sense from your post was that you think it's outrageous that you have to work during every game.

Shouldn’t I find that outrageous? Should I be okay with the idea that half my job (the planning, the grading, the data collection and analysis, the parent contacts, the mandatory trainings) all have to be done outside work hours? I get 3 hours of unscheduled time at work each week to do ALL of that. You don’t find that outrageous?

I would 100% support better hours & pay for teachers. But as someone who also works in a mission-based profession paid slightly more than teachers (but way more than most hands-on, direct service delivery professions) it would be shocking to me if I could accomplish my work in the # of hours in a teachers official work day. What I am trying to say that most teachers don't get is that this is not unique to teachers.

What I read is that you may be one of the few posters who understands a teacher’s workload. A teacher’s work day may be 8 hours, but I usually work 12-13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

Well, at 60 hours a week during the school year and 25-30 hours a week during my unpaid summer, I definitely feel underpaid. If your reasoning for keeping teachers’ pay low is some perceived idea of days off, then consider yourself corrected. Today was a day off. I worked 8 hours prepping for next week. I’ll finish planning tomorrow, on Labor Day.

Don’t confuse “days off” with “days not working.” The only difference to me is that I can pee when I want to on weekends and during the summer.

Stop it. You aren't working that much.

Guess what? Some teachers ABSOLUTELY work this much. Let’s take a look at teachers who have to grade essays. If you figure 10 minutes an essay for 140 students, that’s over 23 hours of grading for that assignment alone. The teaching doesn’t stop and the tons of other duties don’t stop, so that happens on your own time. Or… consider the teacher at an understaffed school who has to spend every free moment covering a class. ALL planning and grading has to happen at home. And summers? That’s time for curriculum revisions, additional coursework, etc.

We can ignore reality all we want, but teachers are leaving because this is what they are experiencing.

The problem with many teachers is that they have no idea of how most white collar professions work --- they think others don't struggle with hours, working outside of hours, burnout politics, I don't get days off when my kid is sick and don't think I should, staffing shortages, increasing demands (although the last is pretty bad in teaching, I will give you that). It's shocking to me how unequipped teachers are to work in other professions and don't know basic office norms. There is bound to be someone who comes on and says "I worked in investment banking and now teach it's so much harder." Fine. But for a nonprofit , mission - oriented job, the conditions aren't really all that different elsewhere. Outside bathroom breaks.
There are also very few barriers to entry in some teaching jobs. Not so in other jobs.
I thought about teaching. I felt like i wasn't for me, b/c it would be the same job for years --you couldn't advance. I don't know how true that really is, and knew even less in my 20s. It didn't have to do with $ in my case but it just seemed like i twasn't a job for an ambitious person. That should change.

The problem with many non-teachers is that they have no idea of how the teaching profession works. (I can use that argument, too.) I could write on and on about increased responsibilities placed on teachers as my proof, but that would simply be rehashing what others have said on this thread.

My issue is with your assumption that teachers aren’t ambitious. I am a very ambitious person. My ambition just doesn’t resemble yours. I don’t aspire to a fancy office or title. What I want is for the 2,400 students I have already taught, and the many to come, to be a bit better off because they were in my class. I want them to have more confidence in their academic abilities. I want them to go into this world reflecting the drive, discipline, and self-respect that is modeled in my classroom. Positively affecting the lives of others is an ambitious goal. Fortunately, I had strong teachers as my models and mentors. Unfortunately, that’s who is currently leaving the classroom. This profession is dying because people can only give so much of themselves before it becomes unsustainable.

In some ways, the bolded is true, in the sense that as people who have gone through school most of us prob think we know more than we actually do. But I am continually shocked at how little most of the teachers in my family can even understand the very basics of operating in a non-school, professional environment. And why should they?
But what I find shocking, continually, is how teachers complain about things that have a "same tune, different verse" in many other professions, esp. service based ones, with real ignorance about those differences. My sister for instance was offended that her principal made her take the day off to attend a special day at the school where her kid also attends (b/c she got her kid into a way better school than her address would mandate, based on teaching there) in the role of a mother (but not teacher). And doesn't really seem to understand most of us can't have real mental breaks from work, b/c we don't operate on the school year model. Or also many of us also had to take care of our children during the pandemic, and couldn't say "well I can't be at work b/c I have to take care of my own kids," or "I can't be with my kids b/c i am grading my students' exams." Some teachers seem to expect special dispensation b/c they work with children that their own kids need can't get in the way of work. And I am not saying that's wrong, but it is in no way unique to the teaching profession.
And I say this as someone who abs thinks teachers should be paid 5x what they are. But my experience is that many teachers act entitled in ways that would be a serious no-go in the rest of the working world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

This is the sort of reasoning that gets me about teachers.
1) Don't you think many of us spend all Sunday working not unoccassionally? Inc & esp nonprofit workers?
2) Don't you think that many of us have to sit in our car during meets to grade?
3) don' you think many of us work 55+ a week?
I find it amazing that teachers think they are entitled to not work b/c their kids have a game.

Do some professionals work over 40? Of course. Do most? No, I’m not buying it. Look no further than DCUM for threads about working only 15-20 hours a week at full-time jobs.

And where did I say that I am entitled to not work because my kid has a game? Guess what? I work at EVERY game and EVERY practice. I’d like the ability to watch one of these days without having a stack of papers on my lap. Is that acting entitled?

Seriously, the disrespect throughout this thread is a perfect illustration of why teachers are quitting.

My sense from your post was that you think it's outrageous that you have to work during every game.

Shouldn’t I find that outrageous? Should I be okay with the idea that half my job (the planning, the grading, the data collection and analysis, the parent contacts, the mandatory trainings) all have to be done outside work hours? I get 3 hours of unscheduled time at work each week to do ALL of that. You don’t find that outrageous?

I would 100% support better hours & pay for teachers. But as someone who also works in a mission-based profession paid slightly more than teachers (but way more than most hands-on, direct service delivery professions) it would be shocking to me if I could accomplish my work in the # of hours in a teachers official work day. What I am trying to say that most teachers don't get is that this is not unique to teachers.

What I read is that you may be one of the few posters who understands a teacher’s workload. A teacher’s work day may be 8 hours, but I usually work 12-13.

Right. 12-13 hours isn't unheard of. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it because both occupations are mainly performed by women, and women are not valued as highly as men?

Supply and Demand. Too big a supply of workers willing to work for peanuts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

This is the sort of reasoning that gets me about teachers.
1) Don't you think many of us spend all Sunday working not unoccassionally? Inc & esp nonprofit workers?
2) Don't you think that many of us have to sit in our car during meets to grade?
3) don' you think many of us work 55+ a week?
I find it amazing that teachers think they are entitled to not work b/c their kids have a game.

Do some professionals work over 40? Of course. Do most? No, I’m not buying it. Look no further than DCUM for threads about working only 15-20 hours a week at full-time jobs.

And where did I say that I am entitled to not work because my kid has a game? Guess what? I work at EVERY game and EVERY practice. I’d like the ability to watch one of these days without having a stack of papers on my lap. Is that acting entitled?

Seriously, the disrespect throughout this thread is a perfect illustration of why teachers are quitting.

My sense from your post was that you think it's outrageous that you have to work during every game.

Shouldn’t I find that outrageous? Should I be okay with the idea that half my job (the planning, the grading, the data collection and analysis, the parent contacts, the mandatory trainings) all have to be done outside work hours? I get 3 hours of unscheduled time at work each week to do ALL of that. You don’t find that outrageous?

I would 100% support better hours & pay for teachers. But as someone who also works in a mission-based profession paid slightly more than teachers (but way more than most hands-on, direct service delivery professions) it would be shocking to me if I could accomplish my work in the # of hours in a teachers official work day. What I am trying to say that most teachers don't get is that this is not unique to teachers.

What I read is that you may be one of the few posters who understands a teacher’s workload. A teacher’s work day may be 8 hours, but I usually work 12-13.

Right. 12-13 hours isn't unheard of. Sorry.

And, admittedly at least in my case, 10 hours is more standard -- if you look @ billable hours at least, which I do, b/c we operate on grants -- esp. the more experienced I am. What isn't standard is having predictable, long breaks during the school year and 6 weeks over the summer. That would be unheard of, even though if you spread a teachers' salary over the year and spread mine over the year (which is of course how my salary is dispensed at my org) they are still about the same. In other words, my hourly rate is likely significantly less. I could totally take a significant pay cut to have that time and know I could take it then. It's not a choice for me. Although in some ways I have more flexibility re when to take leave generally, I just have a lot less of it.
I would say at most more prestigious orgs and higher levels -- which of course, not everyone makes -- the above is likely the same idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, why do cops and firefighters get OT and teachers don’t.
Because… women

OMG, you are feeding into the teachers are dumb as rocks trope. Sweet Jesus.
Teachers are salaried.
And guess who else gets OT? Nurses! And they are………hourly! Just like police and firefighters.

My husband is a police officer. He’s salaried, not hourly. That’s true for most departments in this region. He gets overtime.

The “women” argument is more solid.

Jesus. This is stupid. A police officer, like a firefighter or a nurse (or a maid or a factory worker), is FLSA non-exempt. That means that they receive overtime when they work more than a standard week. In the case of a police officer, thats 42.5 hours. In the case of a firefighter, that's 53 hours. In the case of a nurse, that's 40 hours. It has nothing to do with gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump in teachers and nurses. Having the summer off and all those days/weeks off during the school year, and a daily schedule that matches your kids' schoolday is incredible.

Yes yes many will say they are working nonstop during all this time but the teachers I know IRL don't feel that way, especially once you have been doing it a few yrs. And many make supplemental income in the summer if needed with tutoring, ed camps etc.

I’ll remember that next weekend when I spend all Sunday grading IB papers. I’ll also remember that when I sit in my car during my own kids’ meets so I can get my lesson plans in on time.

I’ve been teaching many years. 55-60 hour weeks are the norm for many high school teachers. It’s getting worse, too. If this job were so wonderful, like your post suggests it is, why exactly are we facing a growing teacher shortage?

This is the sort of reasoning that gets me about teachers.
1) Don't you think many of us spend all Sunday working not unoccassionally? Inc & esp nonprofit workers?
2) Don't you think that many of us have to sit in our car during meets to grade?
3) don' you think many of us work 55+ a week?
I find it amazing that teachers think they are entitled to not work b/c their kids have a game.

Do some professionals work over 40? Of course. Do most? No, I’m not buying it. Look no further than DCUM for threads about working only 15-20 hours a week at full-time jobs.

And where did I say that I am entitled to not work because my kid has a game? Guess what? I work at EVERY game and EVERY practice. I’d like the ability to watch one of these days without having a stack of papers on my lap. Is that acting entitled?

Seriously, the disrespect throughout this thread is a perfect illustration of why teachers are quitting.

I don't think you understand what it's like in the big money professions, eg big law, consulting, or ibanking.