Middle Schools for Cap Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School demographic change always lags neighborhood change. I think Jefferson might be interesting over the next 5-10 years. The Wharf only opened 4 years ago this fall. While the old Brent neighbors might have been different, Brent is probably at this stage too wealthy and "gentrified" to become a serious feeder. But I could potentially see kids from the other 3 schools starting to attend in reasonably large numbers.

The fallacy that demographics alone can create a good school is often heard on Hill playgrounds. It takes that, plus buy-in from administration to offer honors classes and hire teachers capable of teaching them. Demographics alone can take a school further in ES than in MS and HS, and parents need to remember this. You may have “flipped” your local ES by encouraging your neighbors to enroll but it is not so simple as the kids get older. That said, I truly believe that this attitude is also the reason that the performance of white ES students on the hill on standardized tests lags behind the same demographic in other school districts.

Ummmm, that's not actually accurate. And even less so when you adjust for socio-economic factors. But by all means just keep typing whatever comes into your head.

In fact, the opposite is true. I looked into this back when MD used PARCC and we were thinking about schools. It was easy to compare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, here are the percentages of white students at Jefferson, Stuart-Hobson, Eliot-Hine and Deal who met or exceeded expectations on the latest PARCC:

Jefferson: 100% ELA, 90.9% math

Stuart-Hobson: 92.7% ELA, 72.2% math

Eliot-Hine: 85.7% ELA, 85.7% math

Deal: 94.6% ELA, 80.8% math

BS- there aren’t enough white students at Jefferson taking PAARC to pull race based test scores. There aren’t more than 10white kids in any grade at Jefferson. Look at the overall test scores at Jefferson.

In order to report the overall data on white students for an entire school, there need only be at least 10 white students in the entire school. And the last time PARCC scores were released, the data showed that 100% of the white kids at Jefferson met or exceeded expectations in ELA, and 90.9% met or exceeded expectations in math.

You can look it up yourself in the link below if you still don't believe me.

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fdcps.dc.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fdc%2Fsites%2Fdcps%2Fpublication%2Fattachments%2F2019-Overall-and-Subgroups_public_formatted.xlsx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

I am the PPP who called BS on the idea that white scores on CH were lower than in other areas of DC. I didn't bother to post the data because there is no point. You are wasting your time pointing out the >10 reporting logic because the people to whom you are replying are similar in nature to Trump acolytes; they believe something and it has been reinforced so many times that no amount of data or logic can penetrate their beliefs.

The structure of these interactions is basically the same every time.

1. Allege a set of facts that are not true to support a conclusion.
2. When faced with the actual data that shows their "facts" were incorrect, make unfounded and incorrect claims about the veracity or methodology of the data.
3. When faced with the reality of how that data is collected and reported, come back over the top and claim that the data (that they introduced into the discussion) doesn't matter. Then just restate the original unsupported conclusion as proof that the data doesn't mean anything.

These people are not worth your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, here are the percentages of white students at Jefferson, Stuart-Hobson, Eliot-Hine and Deal who met or exceeded expectations on the latest PARCC:

Jefferson: 100% ELA, 90.9% math

Stuart-Hobson: 92.7% ELA, 72.2% math

Eliot-Hine: 85.7% ELA, 85.7% math

Deal: 94.6% ELA, 80.8% math

Please, sample sizes aren't large enough for Eliot-Hine, Jefferson or Stuart Hobson to tell us much, other than that a small number of high SES/white families are now using these schools. There are, what, two dozen white students at both EH and Jefferson, and no more than 60 at SH. Contrast those numbers to 650-700 white students at Deal.

I also think the families willing to roll the dice on EH and Jefferson are likely families with kids who “will do well anywhere.”

Strange take on that situation. We know that lots and lots of kids from those feeder ES peel off for Latin and Basis so there's already a significant brain drain. We also know that none of the MS on CH have a HS feeder pattern so high performing kids without a HS exit strategy are unlikely to matriculate to those MS. Seems to me the inverse of what you suggest is more likely; namely that high performing kids would be more likely to have exited before MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School demographic change always lags neighborhood change. I think Jefferson might be interesting over the next 5-10 years. The Wharf only opened 4 years ago this fall. While the old Brent neighbors might have been different, Brent is probably at this stage too wealthy and "gentrified" to become a serious feeder. But I could potentially see kids from the other 3 schools starting to attend in reasonably large numbers.

The fallacy that demographics alone can create a good school is often heard on Hill playgrounds. It takes that, plus buy-in from administration to offer honors classes and hire teachers capable of teaching them. Demographics alone can take a school further in ES than in MS and HS, and parents need to remember this. You may have “flipped” your local ES by encouraging your neighbors to enroll but it is not so simple as the kids get older. That said, I truly believe that this attitude is also the reason that the performance of white ES students on the hill on standardized tests lags behind the same demographic in other school districts.

Ummmm, that's not actually accurate. And even less so when you adjust for socio-economic factors. But by all means just keep typing whatever comes into your head.

The reality is that families in the city supplement like crazy and those in the burbs who have access to tracking not so much if any.

Not remotely responsive. PPP typed that white PARCC scores on CH lagged behind other DC schools and used that data point to support their point. I responded that the score data point is in fact not true. White UMC scores in DC are pretty consistent across the board. And you replied to say something about "supplementing"?

With apologies to John Mulaney, ""OK. Let's talk about his entirely different thing."

No PP says it lags behind other high performing school districts such in Nova or MD.

Yeah, couple of problems with that attempted defense. First, it wasn't true with respect to area jurisdictions either...when they used the same tests. Which brings me to point #2: they no longer us the same test so there is at present no available data to compare in support of that claim. Which I guess is fine since the buddy you are defending just made it up!

[Anonymous]

The who will do well anywhere poster has a point. There are some families who are less concerned re guaranteed charter school high school feed than others. Middle school is not all that great almost anywhere (its often the weakest link even at some very expensive private schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, here are the percentages of white students at Jefferson, Stuart-Hobson, Eliot-Hine and Deal who met or exceeded expectations on the latest PARCC:

Jefferson: 100% ELA, 90.9% math

Stuart-Hobson: 92.7% ELA, 72.2% math

Eliot-Hine: 85.7% ELA, 85.7% math

Deal: 94.6% ELA, 80.8% math

Please, sample sizes aren't large enough for Eliot-Hine, Jefferson or Stuart Hobson to tell us much, other than that a small number of high SES/white families are now using these schools. There are, what, two dozen white students at both EH and Jefferson, and no more than 60 at SH. Contrast those numbers to 650-700 white students at Deal.

I also think the families willing to roll the dice on EH and Jefferson are likely families with kids who “will do well anywhere.”

that's why this whole conversation is pointless high SES people will do well anywhere. And hint going to Eastern and being at the top of the class is a better chance at top schools than going to any private or moving to the burbs.... mind blown.

[Anonymous]

Agree, as long as a high performing UMC could be happy at a school limo Eastern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, here are the percentages of white students at Jefferson, Stuart-Hobson, Eliot-Hine and Deal who met or exceeded expectations on the latest PARCC:

Jefferson: 100% ELA, 90.9% math

Stuart-Hobson: 92.7% ELA, 72.2% math

Eliot-Hine: 85.7% ELA, 85.7% math

Deal: 94.6% ELA, 80.8% math

Please, sample sizes aren't large enough for Eliot-Hine, Jefferson or Stuart Hobson to tell us much, other than that a small number of high SES/white families are now using these schools. There are, what, two dozen white students at both EH and Jefferson, and no more than 60 at SH. Contrast those numbers to 650-700 white students at Deal.

I also think the families willing to roll the dice on EH and Jefferson are likely families with kids who “will do well anywhere.”

that's why this whole conversation is pointless high SES people will do well anywhere. And hint going to Eastern and being at the top of the class is a better chance at top schools than going to any private or moving to the burbs.... mind blown.

This is not true. Top colleges want to make sure you are well prepared academically. You see the best college admissions results from Banneker, Wilson and Walls. The other schools sometimes have a few kids do very well in top college admissions but it is much less common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, here are the percentages of white students at Jefferson, Stuart-Hobson, Eliot-Hine and Deal who met or exceeded expectations on the latest PARCC:

Jefferson: 100% ELA, 90.9% math

Stuart-Hobson: 92.7% ELA, 72.2% math

Eliot-Hine: 85.7% ELA, 85.7% math

Deal: 94.6% ELA, 80.8% math

Please, sample sizes aren't large enough for Eliot-Hine, Jefferson or Stuart Hobson to tell us much, other than that a small number of high SES/white families are now using these schools. There are, what, two dozen white students at both EH and Jefferson, and no more than 60 at SH. Contrast those numbers to 650-700 white students at Deal.

I also think the families willing to roll the dice on EH and Jefferson are likely families with kids who “will do well anywhere.”

that's why this whole conversation is pointless high SES people will do well anywhere. And hint going to Eastern and being at the top of the class is a better chance at top schools than going to any private or moving to the burbs.... mind blown.

Said no one ever who knows anything about college admissions. Why do you think shitty schools get maybe one kid into an Ivy and elite prep schools get a dozen? LOL

[Anonymous]

Eastern will soon be a HYP feeder. You wait and see!

[Anonymous]

top of class at Eastern is a cake walk but sure pay 20,000+ a year and pray that you are in the top 10% among legit applicants.... idiots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:top of class at Eastern is a cake walk but sure pay 20,000+ a year and pray that you are in the top 10% among legit applicants.... idiots

Don't sign your posts.

And I want my children at a school to learn, not to cake walk to top of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, so why isn't Jefferson a lot more popular with UMC in-boundary families and families with children in the several feeder elementary schools? Mainly a question of poor public relations?

At a Jefferson open house I attended this spring, admins were more than a little cagey about what sort of "honors classes" were offered and how students tested into these classes. I couldn't get a straight answer out of them, couldn't make sense of how the placement system worked. By contrast, at Stuart Hobson, I was told exactly how students were evaluated for/admitted to honors English and math classes. I was also told that there weren't any honors science or social studies classes, or any planned.

You answered your own question, because there are charters that actually have honors classes and have better cohorts

This isn't hard folks everyone is trying to trade up to get into the best slot for their kids period.

That's questionable. Latin doesn't have "honors" classes. Neither does BASIS. Both may have high expectations but they don't track. BASIS will allow advanced math placements and provide AP opportunities, sometimes way earlier than advisable. Latin has resisted math tracking for years until finally relenting.

And Stuart Hobson "honors" ELA has been more 'honors for all' during the pandemic. Will remain to see how it's handled moving forward. There's more math tracking available.[/qu

ote]


An "honors" class is only as advanced as the actual students sitting in it. Remember Wilson now has "honors for all" so its meaningless. If the majority of kids are BELOW grade level then any kid at grade level would be considered honors. Not much of a draw. Jefferson PARC scores-only 21 % met or exceeded expections. A significant percent, 50% scored 2 or less. thats not even approaching grade level! So what kind of honors classes are we talking about? The schools priority is not to serve academica high acheivers. It will change but I would assume at least 10 years.

[Anonymous]

+100. What are the Brent parents who tout Jefferson as an academic powerhouse due to great leadership smoking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, so why isn't Jefferson a lot more popular with UMC in-boundary families and families with children in the several feeder elementary schools? Mainly a question of poor public relations?

At a Jefferson open house I attended this spring, admins were more than a little cagey about what sort of "honors classes" were offered and how students tested into these classes. I couldn't get a straight answer out of them, couldn't make sense of how the placement system worked. By contrast, at Stuart Hobson, I was told exactly how students were evaluated for/admitted to honors English and math classes. I was also told that there weren't any honors science or social studies classes, or any planned.

Brent parents considering Jefferson Academy have complained about this issue repeatedly on DCUM in the last several years. Brent parents who send their children to JA invariably respond with assurances that appropriate rigor is ensured across the board, never mind what the test-in-to-honors-classes-system might be (if there is indeed a system). Needless to say, UMC buy-in at JA from Brent, Tyler and Van Ness remains low and has a desperate feel (as in, we're all for JA, never mind the fact that we were shut out of BASIS and Latin, lack access to Hobson, and can't handle the commute to DCI).

We're IB for Jefferson and toured/had a shadow day last Friday with our current 5th grader. The school is currently on track to have 100 out of their 120 6th grade slots go to IB kids coming from all of their feeders. We were told about the advanced placement classes in their subjects and how students are evaluated for that track. We were also told that 6th grade teachers speak with all of the IB 5th grade teachers to get a feel for each IB student who will be attending. We got into a charger that went though HS but are choosing JA over it due to these personalized factors for our student. My kid had a great experience during the shadow and is excited to go next year.