Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

We know the bolded is not true. We know the submersible community was very concerned about it. Engineers did speak up.

Sorry, but the bolded is true. Where was the public concern raised? All we've seen are a couple strongly worded emails sent to him in private. By and large, other engineers stood by and did nothing, while publications reported on his deep dives in carbon fiber. Even Nargeolet, the Titanic veteran, jumped inside for a ride.

Are you actually defending the CEO? I am confused about what you are saying.

- dp

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

This happened in international waters, so no country has jurisdiction over whatever contraption he chose to risk his life in. No one outside oceangate was privy to exactly what tests had or had not been done, or had the exact specs of the sub. What did you expect other engineers to do other than formally write a letter to express their concern? Chain themselves to the sub? No one is paying engineers to spend days hypothesizing about hull failure with secondhand data and cryptic references to “rigorous testing” and “cutting edge technology”. They had limited knowledge and acted as conscientiously as they could.

This article was not an engineering analysis. Any high schooler could have written it. It listed general specs that were probably listed on oceangate’s press release. The writer of this article has a journalism degree and a minor in biology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

Holy cow. You have a lot of misplaced confidence. Ask any engineer if anything about this sounds right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

Holy cow. You have a lot of misplaced confidence. Ask any engineer if anything about this sounds right.

Oh, really? Why don't you tell me what I have confidence in? Do you think you're talking to re-incarnated Stockton Rush? Are you saying that any engineer will tell me that measuring acoustics is not a way to assess the health of a ship's hull?

[Anonymous]

While I am too scared, as well as claustrophobic…..
I can see why someone would want to view the Titanic shipwreck in person.
I imagine the experience would be so haunting, breathtaking + priceless…..

[Anonymous]

I heard a few days ago that some human remains were possibly recovered from the wreck.

Whenever I hear the term “human remains,” I always assume that this means no body was found intact.

Is this true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard a few days ago that some human remains were possibly recovered from the wreck.

Whenever I hear the term “human remains,” I always assume that this means no body was found intact.

Is this true?

No, "remains" can refer to whole or incomplete bodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

This happened in international waters, so no country has jurisdiction over whatever contraption he chose to risk his life in. No one outside oceangate was privy to exactly what tests had or had not been done, or had the exact specs of the sub. What did you expect other engineers to do other than formally write a letter to express their concern? Chain themselves to the sub? No one is paying engineers to spend days hypothesizing about hull failure with secondhand data and cryptic references to “rigorous testing” and “cutting edge technology”. They had limited knowledge and acted as conscientiously as they could.

This article was not an engineering analysis. Any high schooler could have written it. It listed general specs that were probably listed on oceangate’s press release. The writer of this article has a journalism degree and a minor in biology.

There would be a lot of discussion about the best chain, or perhaps we should use steel cable and the various benefits of each material. Once we pass that, we can move onto locking methods and who will have the keys if any keys should be made available and the procedures for making them available. We would need to pick a few days, get the weather reports, and decide how we should be dressed for the event. We will need a few weeks to discuss any contingency plans for unexpected events. We could be ready in a few months, two years at most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard a few days ago that some human remains were possibly recovered from the wreck.

Whenever I hear the term “human remains,” I always assume that this means no body was found intact.

Is this true?

As has been posted with linked resources multiple times on this thread already, human bodies at 300’ IMPLODE then EXPLODE under conditions of sudden depressurization. Imagine the grossest scenario possible for the obliteration of a human body and that is what happened to these 5 men at thousands of feet of depth when that hull failed.

But no, the pieces don’t go *poof* and disappear, so yes, they found bone fragments and biological goo in the wreckage. Bits and pieces of people, like what they pulled out of ground zero for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard a few days ago that some human remains were possibly recovered from the wreck.

Whenever I hear the term “human remains,” I always assume that this means no body was found intact.

Is this true?

As has been posted with linked resources multiple times on this thread already, human bodies at 300’ IMPLODE then EXPLODE under conditions of sudden depressurization. Imagine the grossest scenario possible for the obliteration of a human body and that is what happened to these 5 men at thousands of feet of depth when that hull failed.

But no, the pieces don’t go *poof* and disappear, so yes, they found bone fragments and biological goo in the wreckage. Bits and pieces of people, like what they pulled out of ground zero for years.

I read that the pieces of remains they foumd were actually large, and they were encased within the wreckage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard a few days ago that some human remains were possibly recovered from the wreck.

Whenever I hear the term “human remains,” I always assume that this means no body was found intact.

Is this true?

As has been posted with linked resources multiple times on this thread already, human bodies at 300’ IMPLODE then EXPLODE under conditions of sudden depressurization. Imagine the grossest scenario possible for the obliteration of a human body and that is what happened to these 5 men at thousands of feet of depth when that hull failed.

But no, the pieces don’t go *poof* and disappear, so yes, they found bone fragments and biological goo in the wreckage. Bits and pieces of people, like what they pulled out of ground zero for years.

I read that the pieces of remains they foumd were actually large, and they were encased within the wreckage.

My favorite Finnish channel did some scale model simulations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQGDwE3yMb0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Developmentally, they are considered adolescents by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

This has to be one of the most stupid comments in this thread. It applies to nothing. You are obsessed with winning an argument you are not capable of winning.

It applies to science and expertise(vs online rambling)

And I am not even the person you have been fighting with for pages. 😂

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Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

Holy cow. You have a lot of misplaced confidence. Ask any engineer if anything about this sounds right.

Oh, really? Why don't you tell me what I have confidence in? Do you think you're talking to re-incarnated Stockton Rush? Are you saying that any engineer will tell me that measuring acoustics is not a way to assess the health of a ship's hull?

No, I am sure that I am not talking to re-incarnated Rush. Because, while he was careless and arrogant, I don't think he was a stupid person.

[Anonymous]

Interesting piece on the recovery effort: https://www.boston.com/news/technology/2023/06/30/recovering-the-titan-12500-feet-underwater-was-dangerous-complex/?p1=hp_featurestackhow

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Anonymous wrote:I think it’s grotesque that none of these billionaire families have come out to say they’ll be covering the costs of this mission. Selfish until the end.

I think it’s grotesque that you want the woman who just lost her husband and son to pay for this, when they died through no fault of their own. So.

Except, of course, it was *not* “through no fault of their own.” So.