Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Developmentally, they are considered adolescents by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Doesn’t matter. Legally the 19 year old is an adult and would have had to sign his own waiver, not a parent. Now the bigger issue is the parent who provided the funds - most 19 year olds don’t have a quarter mil laying around. But nevertheless, this was an “at-your-own-risk” endeavor and he signed. Any blame lies with the parents and not the company. And I think the company was totally irresponsible - but I haven’t seen any evidence that they lied or misrepresented anything. It was risky, pure and simple.

Did you not see the text in which the CEO told a father who was concerned that it was as safe as crossing a street??!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

I love the righteous indignation of the anti science feelings crowd when simple science is presented to them over and over and they still screamingly refuse to ‘believe’ in it.

This thread is a bit like all the covid ones in that regard. So many people so certain they are smarter than the scientists. The American tendency to revere idiocy and disdain the educated is something peculiar indeed.

Nah, it's not unique to Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Developmentally, they are considered adolescents by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

This has to be one of the most stupid comments in this thread. It applies to nothing. You are obsessed with winning an argument you are not capable of winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

He knew it was unsafe. He had too many $$$ riding on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

We know the bolded is not true. We know the submersible community was very concerned about it. Engineers did speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

He knew it was unsafe. He had too many $$$ riding on this.

Maybe, but $$$ didn't stop him from calling off previous dives over safety concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

I guess? But OceanGate had enough confidence in it to tout it as a fail-safe measure in their documentation.

By “documentation, do you mean their marketing mumbo jumbo.

Remember, they chose not to subject their claims to the scrutiny of regulators (who certify most submersibles)

Yes, their marketing mumbo jumbo, and yes, I'm well aware they didn't subject their claims to scrutiny, but that doesn't mean they didn't conduct their own internal tests to an extent that gave Rush enough confidence to trust it with his life, which he did.

Here's an article from a trade publication about the sub when it was first launched, and these engineers didn't bat an eye at the hull health monitoring system or call its reliability into question. It's only after the implosion that everyone has become an expert at how terrible it is.
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

We know the bolded is not true. We know the submersible community was very concerned about it. Engineers did speak up.

Sorry, but the bolded is true. Where was the public concern raised? All we've seen are a couple strongly worded emails sent to him in private. By and large, other engineers stood by and did nothing, while publications reported on his deep dives in carbon fiber. Even Nargeolet, the Titanic veteran, jumped inside for a ride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

By all accounts, this was not a traditional system that measures strain on the hull (change in length, ie detects if the hull was changing shape due to compression), and used acoustic sensors, because the strain gauges are not useful for carbon fiber composites. If so, the name “real time” was true to form - the warning would have gone off a fraction of a second before the implosion. Steel deforms more like play doh and carbon fiber composites deforms more like glass.

He probably got it from local Walmart.

None of the sub's mission-critical systems were made from off the shelf parts, so I doubt he got the hull health monitoring system from Walmart. Supposedly, it gave a warning enough in advance that the pilot could abort the dive in one piece. But if they were descending too fast, then that may not have been the case.

How do you monitor carbon fiber failing in a way that allows you to live?

I don't monitor carbon fiber. But OceanGate monitored it, as explained above, by using acoustic sensors to detect strain. If you think this is a strategy doomed to certain instant failure, here is an article dating all the way back to December 2018 when the Titan made its first 4,000 meter dive.

https://sea-technology.com/manned-submersible-completes-4000-meter-validation-dive

I don't even believe OceanGate is a legit operator. No company with a CEO who doesn't believe safety culture would do things the right way. I think the company's entire safety culture was skip all safety matters unless 1) doesn't cost money, 2) time, and 3) gives good optics (i.e., sounds good). This is a perfect example of you play with fire, soon or later you will get burn.

He dismissed certifications that other deep sea submersibles attained by saying that his tech was so cutting edge, it made the certs obsolete. Some of his bravado might have been a marketing ploy - saying that he didn’t want to hire 60 yo white male engineers etc, but the recklessness behind them is pretty scary. Engineers are notoriously risk averse to the extreme. They don’t push the envelope and respect physics. But they do make mistakes, and it’s what Stockton rush did after his mistakes that guaranteed a catastrophe.

The following article is a good example of a near catastrophic failure that was averted by an engineer with a conscience. And luck.

https://www.uh.edu/ethicsinscience/Media/59Story.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Doesn’t matter. Legally the 19 year old is an adult and would have had to sign his own waiver, not a parent. Now the bigger issue is the parent who provided the funds - most 19 year olds don’t have a quarter mil laying around. But nevertheless, this was an “at-your-own-risk” endeavor and he signed. Any blame lies with the parents and not the company. And I think the company was totally irresponsible - but I haven’t seen any evidence that they lied or misrepresented anything. It was risky, pure and simple.

Did you not see the text in which the CEO told a father who was concerned that it was as safe as crossing a street??!!

An activity, which is not very safe around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Developmentally, they are considered adolescents by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

But they should definitely be allowed to vote right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Developmentally, they are considered adolescents by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

But they should definitely be allowed to vote right?

Voting and riding what looked like a cramped Disney ride to your death are two different things.........How were they going to see out of the thing anyway? It had one hole/portal in the front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

That’s definitely what I’m thinking now. 😢😢

No offense, but you simply don’t understand the physics of pressure at depth.

The second there was a hull breach, even the tiniest hull breach, their bodies instantaneously imploded. They died before they knew anything, I promise you. You can find the same information from a dozen scientists explaining this online.

Oh, shut up, you pretentious know-it-all.

Everything I read indicated that they would’ve been practically disintegrated—that there was no way they’d find any body parts and that fish would’ve taken care of any remaining tissue.

The fact that they found pretty sizable pieces of the sub and that they found human remains, makes it seem like the implosion may not have happened exactly as we thought.

Take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

[PP]

np - i think implosion is like popping a balloon - you will see small pieces but also large chunks. i wasn't surprised by large pieces they found. Implosion is different than explosion (like a bomb damage). When it pops, all are dead at that moment. Some pieces stay big, some in pieces.

I totally agree that explosions and implosions different.

I truly didn’t expect any remains….and I didn’t expect they’d recover such large pieces of the sub. I certainly hope they died instantly, but I am not as sure now. More so, I fear that they may have known they were in serious trouble in the minutes before.

Breaks my heart.

I wasn't there but I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew what was about to happen. I will use my balloon example again. If you were sitting inside of a huge balloon and it pops, would you feel anything? The moment it pops, you are under 6000 psi (that's like 2000 cars on top of 1meter by 1 meter plate, and you are under that plate), you are dead immediately - big pieces, small pieces, whatever pieces. If you step on a spider, would spider feel any?

No, no….I meant in the minutes before they may have heard sounds of the sub as it stressed against the water pressure. Or maybe there were audible warning signs that they were in trouble. It’s speculated that they were in ascent when they imploded.

Okay, again, we are all guessing here but... Under that much pressure, if any material failures occur, it will be very fast. It won't be like movies when they say "water is leaking, get the duct tape!!" If and any failure will have a very quick and violent consequences, again, due to the pressure. Now, did it have sensors that were designed to sense material fatigue/failures? It sure doesn't sound like it. I think CEO guy who had an engineering background was a terrible engineer. But I am happy to believe those folks didn't suffer at all.

I hope you’re right.

I suspect it did have some sort of warning sensor, though (since they were likely ascending before reaching the Titanic). Whether it was an audible type that the passengers heard will clearly remain a mystery. Anyway, that’s what I was referring to.

There were absolutely no sensors on that sh!tsub. There weren’t even any controls other than a knock off xbox controller. It was a carbon fiber pill box reinforced with questionably epoxied titanium with a couple of propellers and a window rated for (((1,400))) feet.

You're wrong about the sensors. They had, what they call, a Real Time hull health monitoring system.

Which would never have worked with carbon fiber

FWIW, this is what the CEO said earlier. That they didn't need a lot of fancy safety equipment because if something went wrong at the bottom of the ocean, they wouldn't need rescuing. He knew the risks. As did the experienced people on the craft. The tourists maybe didn't.

One of the tourists was a child. Something tells me he had to depend on the adults to tell him it was safe.

Well, technically he was 19 and had to sign his own liability waiver.

Right because 19 year olds are the equivalent of 50 year old experienced adults and explorers.

Developmentally, they are considered adolescents by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

But they should definitely be allowed to vote right?

Voting and riding what looked like a cramped Disney ride to your death are two different things.........How were they going to see out of the thing anyway? It had one hole/portal in the front.

Exactly. The kid will do what Dad says in one case and what Dad says in the other case.