Why is Blake Lively so overrated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the porn complaints were different than the birthing videos at least according to the NYTimes

From Blake’s complaint, : “To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth.”

and “Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied ‘She isn’t weird about this stuff,’ as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video.”

And his response.

The Times compounded its journalistic failures by uncritically advancing Lively’s unsubstantiated claims of sexual harassment against Heath and Baldoni. For example, the Article, based on Lively’s [complaint], sensationally alleges that ‘Mr. Heath had shown [Lively] a video of his naked wife,’ with Lively’s [complaint] even labeling the footage as pornography.’ This claim is patently absurd. The video in question was a (non-pornographic) recording of Heath’s wife and baby during a home birth—a deeply personal one with no sexual overtone.”

“The video was shown to Lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene in the Film. Heath informed Lively that his wife condoned his displaying the video. Any suggestion that Heath engaged in the exhibition of pornography or inappropriate content is false.”

Based on this back and forth, I side with Lively.

Her complaint doesn't call the video porn, it says that when she was presented with a video of a nude woman with her legs spread, she thought she was being shown porn. That's a reasonable supposition and is precisely why you shouldn't show someone a video like that without asking them first. She never said he showed pornography and her complaint doesn't refer to the video that way. But it does demonstrate that Baldoni violated personal boundaries in a variety of ways. His response actually compounds this impression -- he continues to maintain there is nothing inappropriate about showing Lively or others on set his wife's birth video, and seems unconcerned with the fact that this was shown without warning. If the video was as "deeply personal" as he say is it is here (and I agree it is) then why would he shown it to someone without explaining the context and making sure the person understood what they were looking at and were okay with it.

Also, Lively's response after he explained it was his wife is appropriate --

meant to add: it's reasonable after being shown a nude video of a woman you don't know to ask if the woman is aware that video is being shown to people.

It’s a he said/ she said about the context in which the video was shown, but it is indisputable that it is part of her claim for sexual harassment. Maybe he shouldn’t have shown it. But it isn’t sexual harassment.

For people who talked often about porn at work it very well could be. It contributed to an awkward and sexually charged environment when it wasn’t necessary. Blake in particular asked for it to stop.

I disagree, showing a birthing video is not ever pornographic but particularly not in the context of discussing a birthing scene.

What mother of 4 needs to see a birthing video? He tried to mansplain it to her as if there was a right and wrong way.

To be clear, it was not Baldoni who showed her the video, it was Heath. When she questioned if the wife was ok with him showing it, he responded that his wife was not someone who would be bothered by it in a manner that conveyed Blake was weird for even questioning it. Team her side on this particular example.

But again, it is about a pattern, not any particular instance.

This is why I said much earlier in this thread that 30 instances of borderline actions, all taken together, can create a pattern of sexual harassment where one of them alone would not be enough.

Da

I can see this. One or 2 things up can brush off but all together is a problem.

No, a pattern of non-sexual issues does not become sexual harassment. Particularly here where the context is acting.

Non-sexual things (like shoulder rubs, hugs, and comments about weight or looks) can absolutely become part of a pattern of sexual harassment. And Blake Lively cites much more explicit issues and comments, including discussion of porn, unscripted kissing, and showing her films of a nude woman. Of course, the context of a Hollywood set matters, but she's got lots of examples that contribute to a pattern.

Films of a nude woman giving birth in the context of a discussion about a birth scene. That isn’t sexual.

And the comment you're responding to says non-sexual things can become part of a pattern of sexual harassment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" On the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity, despite no mention of nudity
for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. Mr. Baldoni insisted to Ms.
Lively that women give birth naked, and that his wife had “ripped her clothes off” during labor. He
claimed it was “not normal” for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth. Ms. Lively
disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down"

"To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied "She isn't weird about this stuff,” as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video."

This is all extremely messed up. Why are people defending these two? The mental gymnastics to make this seem ok is exhausting.

Because they are filmmakers making a movie where the pivotal scene is childbirth. It literally gives the name of the movie. It’s completely normal that they would discuss nudity in the CHILDBIRTH scene with the actress knowingly being paid to act out a scene of CHILDBIRTH.

All caps doesn't make your point any more compelling. The childbirth scene is pivotal for emotional reasons, and birth scenes are regularly filmed from the chest up and focus on the actors' faces and interactions, because frankly making a birth scene more graphic than that is going to take most viewers out of the scene emotionally. Also many, many women give birth wearing a hospital gown and most birth scenes are filmed with the actress mostly clothed. So no, it was actually not at all normal for the director to assume that the scene would be filmed nude or that Lively would know they expected her to be nude. It's not what is typical for the industry.

And Baldoni and his team either knew that or were very stupid because, as Lively points out, if they'd planned for the birth scene to be done nude all along, they would have scripted it as a nude scene, obtained a nudity rider, and enlisted the intimacy coordinator in choreographing the scene and had her on set that day. They didn't do any of those things. So either they also didn't expect the scene to be nude and just decided on the fly that day that it would be, or they are just extremely bad at their jobs and failed to properly script, storyboard, and follow normal procedure for something that was always planned to be a nude scene.

Either way, they screwed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the porn complaints were different than the birthing videos at least according to the NYTimes

From Blake’s complaint, : “To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth.”

and “Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied ‘She isn’t weird about this stuff,’ as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video.”

And his response.

The Times compounded its journalistic failures by uncritically advancing Lively’s unsubstantiated claims of sexual harassment against Heath and Baldoni. For example, the Article, based on Lively’s [complaint], sensationally alleges that ‘Mr. Heath had shown [Lively] a video of his naked wife,’ with Lively’s [complaint] even labeling the footage as pornography.’ This claim is patently absurd. The video in question was a (non-pornographic) recording of Heath’s wife and baby during a home birth—a deeply personal one with no sexual overtone.”

“The video was shown to Lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene in the Film. Heath informed Lively that his wife condoned his displaying the video. Any suggestion that Heath engaged in the exhibition of pornography or inappropriate content is false.”

Based on this back and forth, I side with Lively.

Her complaint doesn't call the video porn, it says that when she was presented with a video of a nude woman with her legs spread, she thought she was being shown porn. That's a reasonable supposition and is precisely why you shouldn't show someone a video like that without asking them first. She never said he showed pornography and her complaint doesn't refer to the video that way. But it does demonstrate that Baldoni violated personal boundaries in a variety of ways. His response actually compounds this impression -- he continues to maintain there is nothing inappropriate about showing Lively or others on set his wife's birth video, and seems unconcerned with the fact that this was shown without warning. If the video was as "deeply personal" as he say is it is here (and I agree it is) then why would he shown it to someone without explaining the context and making sure the person understood what they were looking at and were okay with it.

Also, Lively's response after he explained it was his wife is appropriate --

meant to add: it's reasonable after being shown a nude video of a woman you don't know to ask if the woman is aware that video is being shown to people.

It’s a he said/ she said about the context in which the video was shown, but it is indisputable that it is part of her claim for sexual harassment. Maybe he shouldn’t have shown it. But it isn’t sexual harassment.

For people who talked often about porn at work it very well could be. It contributed to an awkward and sexually charged environment when it wasn’t necessary. Blake in particular asked for it to stop.

I disagree, showing a birthing video is not ever pornographic but particularly not in the context of discussing a birthing scene.

What mother of 4 needs to see a birthing video? He tried to mansplain it to her as if there was a right and wrong way.

To be clear, it was not Baldoni who showed her the video, it was Heath. When she questioned if the wife was ok with him showing it, he responded that his wife was not someone who would be bothered by it in a manner that conveyed Blake was weird for even questioning it. Team her side on this particular example.

But again, it is about a pattern, not any particular instance.

This is why I said much earlier in this thread that 30 instances of borderline actions, all taken together, can create a pattern of sexual harassment where one of them alone would not be enough.

Da

I can see this. One or 2 things up can brush off but all together is a problem.

No, a pattern of non-sexual issues does not become sexual harassment. Particularly here where the context is acting.

Non-sexual things (like shoulder rubs, hugs, and comments about weight or looks) can absolutely become part of a pattern of sexual harassment. And Blake Lively cites much more explicit issues and comments, including discussion of porn, unscripted kissing, and showing her films of a nude woman. Of course, the context of a Hollywood set matters, but she's got lots of examples that contribute to a pattern.

Films of a nude woman giving birth in the context of a discussion about a birth scene. That isn’t sexual.

And the comment you're responding to says non-sexual things can become part of a pattern of sexual harassment.

Which is legally true regardless of the PPs opinion on this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" On the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity, despite no mention of nudity
for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. Mr. Baldoni insisted to Ms.
Lively that women give birth naked, and that his wife had “ripped her clothes off” during labor. He
claimed it was “not normal” for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth. Ms. Lively
disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down"

"To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied "She isn't weird about this stuff,” as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video."

This is all extremely messed up. Why are people defending these two? The mental gymnastics to make this seem ok is exhausting.

Because they are filmmakers making a movie where the pivotal scene is childbirth. It literally gives the name of the movie. It’s completely normal that they would discuss nudity in the CHILDBIRTH scene with the actress knowingly being paid to act out a scene of CHILDBIRTH.

All caps doesn't make your point any more compelling. The childbirth scene is pivotal for emotional reasons, and birth scenes are regularly filmed from the chest up and focus on the actors' faces and interactions, because frankly making a birth scene more graphic than that is going to take most viewers out of the scene emotionally. Also many, many women give birth wearing a hospital gown and most birth scenes are filmed with the actress mostly clothed. So no, it was actually not at all normal for the director to assume that the scene would be filmed nude or that Lively would know they expected her to be nude. It's not what is typical for the industry.

And Baldoni and his team either knew that or were very stupid because, as Lively points out, if they'd planned for the birth scene to be done nude all along, they would have scripted it as a nude scene, obtained a nudity rider, and enlisted the intimacy coordinator in choreographing the scene and had her on set that day. They didn't do any of those things. So either they also didn't expect the scene to be nude and just decided on the fly that day that it would be, or they are just extremely bad at their jobs and failed to properly script, storyboard, and follow normal procedure for something that was always planned to be a nude scene.

Either way, they screwed up.

+1 and on top of that did not create a closed set that day which is standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" On the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity, despite no mention of nudity
for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. Mr. Baldoni insisted to Ms.
Lively that women give birth naked, and that his wife had “ripped her clothes off” during labor. He
claimed it was “not normal” for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth. Ms. Lively
disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down"

"To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied "She isn't weird about this stuff,” as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video."

This is all extremely messed up. Why are people defending these two? The mental gymnastics to make this seem ok is exhausting.

Because they are filmmakers making a movie where the pivotal scene is childbirth. It literally gives the name of the movie. It’s completely normal that they would discuss nudity in the CHILDBIRTH scene with the actress knowingly being paid to act out a scene of CHILDBIRTH.

All caps doesn't make your point any more compelling. The childbirth scene is pivotal for emotional reasons, and birth scenes are regularly filmed from the chest up and focus on the actors' faces and interactions, because frankly making a birth scene more graphic than that is going to take most viewers out of the scene emotionally. Also many, many women give birth wearing a hospital gown and most birth scenes are filmed with the actress mostly clothed. So no, it was actually not at all normal for the director to assume that the scene would be filmed nude or that Lively would know they expected her to be nude. It's not what is typical for the industry.

And Baldoni and his team either knew that or were very stupid because, as Lively points out, if they'd planned for the birth scene to be done nude all along, they would have scripted it as a nude scene, obtained a nudity rider, and enlisted the intimacy coordinator in choreographing the scene and had her on set that day. They didn't do any of those things. So either they also didn't expect the scene to be nude and just decided on the fly that day that it would be, or they are just extremely bad at their jobs and failed to properly script, storyboard, and follow normal procedure for something that was always planned to be a nude scene.

Either way, they screwed up.

The scene was filmed with her dressed, no? So they suggested something she didn’t want to do, and after she said no, they filmed it the way she wanted it filmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Simulate full nudity” does not mean the actress is naked.

It's very close to it. Here is the footnote from the complaint that explains what kind of coverage is used to simulate nudity in a scene like this:

"8 Generally, nudity below the waist in film utilizes a small piece of nude fabric glued around the female actor’s genitalia to provide some minimal privacy without disturbing the shot (because that fabric is not able to have visible straps from profile camera angles)."

So unless you walk around with small pieces of nude fabric glued to your genitalia and nothing else and consider that "clothed" this is naked.

The use of the word “generally” here means that it wasn’t what she was asked to do.

Uh, no it doesn't. The use of the word generally means that they are describing how nudity is "generally" handled on film sets. One paragraph later the complaint states:

"Mr. Heath and Mr. Baldoni also failed to close the set, allowing non-essential crew to pass through while Ms. Lively was mostly nude with her legs spread wide in stirrups and only a small piece of fabric covering her genitalia."

And also:

"Ms. Lively was not provided with anything to cover herself with between takes until after she had made multiple requests."

[Anonymous]

Overall, it sounds like Joey Tribbiani tried to film a birth scene.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Overall, it sounds like Joey Tribbiani tried to film a birth scene.

*Direct a birth scene

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the porn complaints were different than the birthing videos at least according to the NYTimes

From Blake’s complaint, : “To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth.”

and “Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied ‘She isn’t weird about this stuff,’ as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video.”

And his response.

The Times compounded its journalistic failures by uncritically advancing Lively’s unsubstantiated claims of sexual harassment against Heath and Baldoni. For example, the Article, based on Lively’s [complaint], sensationally alleges that ‘Mr. Heath had shown [Lively] a video of his naked wife,’ with Lively’s [complaint] even labeling the footage as pornography.’ This claim is patently absurd. The video in question was a (non-pornographic) recording of Heath’s wife and baby during a home birth—a deeply personal one with no sexual overtone.”

“The video was shown to Lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene in the Film. Heath informed Lively that his wife condoned his displaying the video. Any suggestion that Heath engaged in the exhibition of pornography or inappropriate content is false.”

Based on this back and forth, I side with Lively.

Her complaint doesn't call the video porn, it says that when she was presented with a video of a nude woman with her legs spread, she thought she was being shown porn. That's a reasonable supposition and is precisely why you shouldn't show someone a video like that without asking them first. She never said he showed pornography and her complaint doesn't refer to the video that way. But it does demonstrate that Baldoni violated personal boundaries in a variety of ways. His response actually compounds this impression -- he continues to maintain there is nothing inappropriate about showing Lively or others on set his wife's birth video, and seems unconcerned with the fact that this was shown without warning. If the video was as "deeply personal" as he say is it is here (and I agree it is) then why would he shown it to someone without explaining the context and making sure the person understood what they were looking at and were okay with it.

Also, Lively's response after he explained it was his wife is appropriate --

meant to add: it's reasonable after being shown a nude video of a woman you don't know to ask if the woman is aware that video is being shown to people.

It’s a he said/ she said about the context in which the video was shown, but it is indisputable that it is part of her claim for sexual harassment. Maybe he shouldn’t have shown it. But it isn’t sexual harassment.

For people who talked often about porn at work it very well could be. It contributed to an awkward and sexually charged environment when it wasn’t necessary. Blake in particular asked for it to stop.

I disagree, showing a birthing video is not ever pornographic but particularly not in the context of discussing a birthing scene.

What mother of 4 needs to see a birthing video? He tried to mansplain it to her as if there was a right and wrong way.

To be clear, it was not Baldoni who showed her the video, it was Heath. When she questioned if the wife was ok with him showing it, he responded that his wife was not someone who would be bothered by it in a manner that conveyed Blake was weird for even questioning it. Team her side on this particular example.

But again, it is about a pattern, not any particular instance.

This is why I said much earlier in this thread that 30 instances of borderline actions, all taken together, can create a pattern of sexual harassment where one of them alone would not be enough.

Da

I can see this. One or 2 things up can brush off but all together is a problem.

No, a pattern of non-sexual issues does not become sexual harassment. Particularly here where the context is acting.

Non-sexual things (like shoulder rubs, hugs, and comments about weight or looks) can absolutely become part of a pattern of sexual harassment. And Blake Lively cites much more explicit issues and comments, including discussion of porn, unscripted kissing, and showing her films of a nude woman. Of course, the context of a Hollywood set matters, but she's got lots of examples that contribute to a pattern.

Films of a nude woman giving birth in the context of a discussion about a birth scene. That isn’t sexual.

And the comment you're responding to says non-sexual things can become part of a pattern of sexual harassment.

Which is legally true regardless of the PPs opinion on this

They weren’t doing this to harass her, they were trying to convince her to film the scene the way they wanted, which is a director’s job. She said no, and it was filmed the way she wanted. I assume if she agreed to film the scene with “simulated nudity,” the required protocols would have been put in place. However, there was no need to since she filmed the scene clothed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" On the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity, despite no mention of nudity
for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. Mr. Baldoni insisted to Ms.
Lively that women give birth naked, and that his wife had “ripped her clothes off” during labor. He
claimed it was “not normal” for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth. Ms. Lively
disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down"

"To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied "She isn't weird about this stuff,” as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video."

This is all extremely messed up. Why are people defending these two? The mental gymnastics to make this seem ok is exhausting.

Because they are filmmakers making a movie where the pivotal scene is childbirth. It literally gives the name of the movie. It’s completely normal that they would discuss nudity in the CHILDBIRTH scene with the actress knowingly being paid to act out a scene of CHILDBIRTH.

All caps doesn't make your point any more compelling. The childbirth scene is pivotal for emotional reasons, and birth scenes are regularly filmed from the chest up and focus on the actors' faces and interactions, because frankly making a birth scene more graphic than that is going to take most viewers out of the scene emotionally. Also many, many women give birth wearing a hospital gown and most birth scenes are filmed with the actress mostly clothed. So no, it was actually not at all normal for the director to assume that the scene would be filmed nude or that Lively would know they expected her to be nude. It's not what is typical for the industry.

And Baldoni and his team either knew that or were very stupid because, as Lively points out, if they'd planned for the birth scene to be done nude all along, they would have scripted it as a nude scene, obtained a nudity rider, and enlisted the intimacy coordinator in choreographing the scene and had her on set that day. They didn't do any of those things. So either they also didn't expect the scene to be nude and just decided on the fly that day that it would be, or they are just extremely bad at their jobs and failed to properly script, storyboard, and follow normal procedure for something that was always planned to be a nude scene.

Either way, they screwed up.

The scene was filmed with her dressed, no? So they suggested something she didn’t want to do, and after she said no, they filmed it the way she wanted it filmed.

No. Read the complaint. She was nude from the waist down with only a small strip of nude fabric covering her genitals, and when she repeatedly asked for something to cover herself with between takes, she was ignored even after multiple requests. It was not even remotely how she wanted it to be filmed.

They also sprang the nudity request on her on the day of filming instead of setting it up in advance. Extremely unprofessional. You don't ask an actor to do a scene nude the day it's shot -- there's intense pressure because if you can't reach a compromise, the scene can be delayed and can cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the cost of the location, other actors and personnel, as well as the costs associated with booking all of that again for a future date.

[Anonymous]

I think Blake probably experienced sexual harassment and that’s extremely sad. Seems like way she and her husband handled it has been so egregious, violated so many standards, and was so deeply rooted in greed and made sure Blake was compensated but no one else on set got a damn thing.

They documented these claims and then used them to threaten Heath and Baldoni so she could get an executive producer credit. A google search shows the woman who played young Blake was paid $85,000 for the film and Justin 330,000, but of course he’d get a nice cut of the profits given his role as producer.

Blake’s salary was $3 million to start and with an executive producer credit that probably increased 10 fold. I guess screw anyone else on set that felt uncomfortable, no compensation for you, but Blake was taken care of.

Unless no one else on set felt uncomfortable after all? Who knows. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Didn’t seem like they were interested in advancing change around SH. seemed like they were greedy for power and control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the porn complaints were different than the birthing videos at least according to the NYTimes

From Blake’s complaint, : “To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth.”

and “Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied ‘She isn’t weird about this stuff,’ as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video.”

And his response.

The Times compounded its journalistic failures by uncritically advancing Lively’s unsubstantiated claims of sexual harassment against Heath and Baldoni. For example, the Article, based on Lively’s [complaint], sensationally alleges that ‘Mr. Heath had shown [Lively] a video of his naked wife,’ with Lively’s [complaint] even labeling the footage as pornography.’ This claim is patently absurd. The video in question was a (non-pornographic) recording of Heath’s wife and baby during a home birth—a deeply personal one with no sexual overtone.”

“The video was shown to Lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene in the Film. Heath informed Lively that his wife condoned his displaying the video. Any suggestion that Heath engaged in the exhibition of pornography or inappropriate content is false.”

Based on this back and forth, I side with Lively.

Her complaint doesn't call the video porn, it says that when she was presented with a video of a nude woman with her legs spread, she thought she was being shown porn. That's a reasonable supposition and is precisely why you shouldn't show someone a video like that without asking them first. She never said he showed pornography and her complaint doesn't refer to the video that way. But it does demonstrate that Baldoni violated personal boundaries in a variety of ways. His response actually compounds this impression -- he continues to maintain there is nothing inappropriate about showing Lively or others on set his wife's birth video, and seems unconcerned with the fact that this was shown without warning. If the video was as "deeply personal" as he say is it is here (and I agree it is) then why would he shown it to someone without explaining the context and making sure the person understood what they were looking at and were okay with it.

Also, Lively's response after he explained it was his wife is appropriate --

meant to add: it's reasonable after being shown a nude video of a woman you don't know to ask if the woman is aware that video is being shown to people.

It’s a he said/ she said about the context in which the video was shown, but it is indisputable that it is part of her claim for sexual harassment. Maybe he shouldn’t have shown it. But it isn’t sexual harassment.

For people who talked often about porn at work it very well could be. It contributed to an awkward and sexually charged environment when it wasn’t necessary. Blake in particular asked for it to stop.

I disagree, showing a birthing video is not ever pornographic but particularly not in the context of discussing a birthing scene.

What mother of 4 needs to see a birthing video? He tried to mansplain it to her as if there was a right and wrong way.

To be clear, it was not Baldoni who showed her the video, it was Heath. When she questioned if the wife was ok with him showing it, he responded that his wife was not someone who would be bothered by it in a manner that conveyed Blake was weird for even questioning it. Team her side on this particular example.

But again, it is about a pattern, not any particular instance.

This is why I said much earlier in this thread that 30 instances of borderline actions, all taken together, can create a pattern of sexual harassment where one of them alone would not be enough.

Da

I can see this. One or 2 things up can brush off but all together is a problem.

No, a pattern of non-sexual issues does not become sexual harassment. Particularly here where the context is acting.

Non-sexual things (like shoulder rubs, hugs, and comments about weight or looks) can absolutely become part of a pattern of sexual harassment. And Blake Lively cites much more explicit issues and comments, including discussion of porn, unscripted kissing, and showing her films of a nude woman. Of course, the context of a Hollywood set matters, but she's got lots of examples that contribute to a pattern.

Films of a nude woman giving birth in the context of a discussion about a birth scene. That isn’t sexual.

And the comment you're responding to says non-sexual things can become part of a pattern of sexual harassment.

Which is legally true regardless of the PPs opinion on this

They weren’t doing this to harass her, they were trying to convince her to film the scene the way they wanted, which is a director’s job. She said no, and it was filmed the way she wanted. I assume if she agreed to film the scene with “simulated nudity,” the required protocols would have been put in place. However, there was no need to since she filmed the scene clothed.

No it was not filmed how she wanted. She wanted to do the scene clothed, she wound up nude from the waist down. She wanted the set closed, it was open. There was no intimacy coordinator on set. The nudity in the scene was not scripted or choreographed ahead of time. At the last minute, an actor friend of Baldoni's was called in to play the doctor, and spent the entirety of the shoot between Lively's legs with his face and hands close to her genitals which were covered with only a small strip of fabric taped to her body.

She did not film the scene clothed. She was pressured into doing nudity despite it not having been scripted and frankly not being necessary to the story.

Read. The. Complaint.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:the porn complaints were different than the birthing videos at least according to the NYTimes

From Blake’s complaint, : “To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth.”

and “Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied ‘She isn’t weird about this stuff,’ as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video.”

And his response.

The Times compounded its journalistic failures by uncritically advancing Lively’s unsubstantiated claims of sexual harassment against Heath and Baldoni. For example, the Article, based on Lively’s [complaint], sensationally alleges that ‘Mr. Heath had shown [Lively] a video of his naked wife,’ with Lively’s [complaint] even labeling the footage as pornography.’ This claim is patently absurd. The video in question was a (non-pornographic) recording of Heath’s wife and baby during a home birth—a deeply personal one with no sexual overtone.”

“The video was shown to Lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene in the Film. Heath informed Lively that his wife condoned his displaying the video. Any suggestion that Heath engaged in the exhibition of pornography or inappropriate content is false.”

Based on this back and forth, I side with Lively.

Her complaint doesn't call the video porn, it says that when she was presented with a video of a nude woman with her legs spread, she thought she was being shown porn. That's a reasonable supposition and is precisely why you shouldn't show someone a video like that without asking them first. She never said he showed pornography and her complaint doesn't refer to the video that way. But it does demonstrate that Baldoni violated personal boundaries in a variety of ways. His response actually compounds this impression -- he continues to maintain there is nothing inappropriate about showing Lively or others on set his wife's birth video, and seems unconcerned with the fact that this was shown without warning. If the video was as "deeply personal" as he say is it is here (and I agree it is) then why would he shown it to someone without explaining the context and making sure the person understood what they were looking at and were okay with it.

Also, Lively's response after he explained it was his wife is appropriate --

meant to add: it's reasonable after being shown a nude video of a woman you don't know to ask if the woman is aware that video is being shown to people.

It’s a he said/ she said about the context in which the video was shown, but it is indisputable that it is part of her claim for sexual harassment. Maybe he shouldn’t have shown it. But it isn’t sexual harassment.

For people who talked often about porn at work it very well could be. It contributed to an awkward and sexually charged environment when it wasn’t necessary. Blake in particular asked for it to stop.

I disagree, showing a birthing video is not ever pornographic but particularly not in the context of discussing a birthing scene.

What mother of 4 needs to see a birthing video? He tried to mansplain it to her as if there was a right and wrong way.

To be clear, it was not Baldoni who showed her the video, it was Heath. When she questioned if the wife was ok with him showing it, he responded that his wife was not someone who would be bothered by it in a manner that conveyed Blake was weird for even questioning it. Team her side on this particular example.

But again, it is about a pattern, not any particular instance.

This is why I said much earlier in this thread that 30 instances of borderline actions, all taken together, can create a pattern of sexual harassment where one of them alone would not be enough.

Da

I can see this. One or 2 things up can brush off but all together is a problem.

No, a pattern of non-sexual issues does not become sexual harassment. Particularly here where the context is acting.

Non-sexual things (like shoulder rubs, hugs, and comments about weight or looks) can absolutely become part of a pattern of sexual harassment. And Blake Lively cites much more explicit issues and comments, including discussion of porn, unscripted kissing, and showing her films of a nude woman. Of course, the context of a Hollywood set matters, but she's got lots of examples that contribute to a pattern.

Films of a nude woman giving birth in the context of a discussion about a birth scene. That isn’t sexual.

And the comment you're responding to says non-sexual things can become part of a pattern of sexual harassment.

Which is legally true regardless of the PPs opinion on this

They weren’t doing this to harass her, they were trying to convince her to film the scene the way they wanted, which is a director’s job. She said no, and it was filmed the way she wanted. I assume if she agreed to film the scene with “simulated nudity,” the required protocols would have been put in place. However, there was no need to since she filmed the scene clothed.

Actually part of her complaint is that they did not even have appropriate protocols for how they did film the scene with her from waist down. They should still have closed the set, enabled her to cover up better below the waist between takes, etc. Someone flew in that day to watch filming of the scene that they were anticipating her to be naked in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" On the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity, despite no mention of nudity
for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. Mr. Baldoni insisted to Ms.
Lively that women give birth naked, and that his wife had “ripped her clothes off” during labor. He
claimed it was “not normal” for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth. Ms. Lively
disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down"

"To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied "She isn't weird about this stuff,” as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video."

This is all extremely messed up. Why are people defending these two? The mental gymnastics to make this seem ok is exhausting.

Because they are filmmakers making a movie where the pivotal scene is childbirth. It literally gives the name of the movie. It’s completely normal that they would discuss nudity in the CHILDBIRTH scene with the actress knowingly being paid to act out a scene of CHILDBIRTH.

All caps doesn't make your point any more compelling. The childbirth scene is pivotal for emotional reasons, and birth scenes are regularly filmed from the chest up and focus on the actors' faces and interactions, because frankly making a birth scene more graphic than that is going to take most viewers out of the scene emotionally. Also many, many women give birth wearing a hospital gown and most birth scenes are filmed with the actress mostly clothed. So no, it was actually not at all normal for the director to assume that the scene would be filmed nude or that Lively would know they expected her to be nude. It's not what is typical for the industry.

And Baldoni and his team either knew that or were very stupid because, as Lively points out, if they'd planned for the birth scene to be done nude all along, they would have scripted it as a nude scene, obtained a nudity rider, and enlisted the intimacy coordinator in choreographing the scene and had her on set that day. They didn't do any of those things. So either they also didn't expect the scene to be nude and just decided on the fly that day that it would be, or they are just extremely bad at their jobs and failed to properly script, storyboard, and follow normal procedure for something that was always planned to be a nude scene.

Either way, they screwed up.

The scene was filmed with her dressed, no? So they suggested something she didn’t want to do, and after she said no, they filmed it the way she wanted it filmed.

No. Read the complaint. She was nude from the waist down with only a small strip of nude fabric covering her genitals, and when she repeatedly asked for something to cover herself with between takes, she was ignored even after multiple requests. It was not even remotely how she wanted it to be filmed.

They also sprang the nudity request on her on the day of filming instead of setting it up in advance. Extremely unprofessional. You don't ask an actor to do a scene nude the day it's shot -- there's intense pressure because if you can't reach a compromise, the scene can be delayed and can cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the cost of the location, other actors and personnel, as well as the costs associated with booking all of that again for a future date.

The Complaint quite clearly says they compromised on this disagreement by covering the upper half of her body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" On the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity, despite no mention of nudity
for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. Mr. Baldoni insisted to Ms.
Lively that women give birth naked, and that his wife had “ripped her clothes off” during labor. He
claimed it was “not normal” for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth. Ms. Lively
disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down"

"To add insult to injury, Mr. Heath approached Ms. Lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart. Ms. Lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Heath if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which he replied "She isn't weird about this stuff,” as if Ms. Lively was weird for not welcoming it. Ms. Lively and her assistant excused themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them a nude video."

This is all extremely messed up. Why are people defending these two? The mental gymnastics to make this seem ok is exhausting.

Because they are filmmakers making a movie where the pivotal scene is childbirth. It literally gives the name of the movie. It’s completely normal that they would discuss nudity in the CHILDBIRTH scene with the actress knowingly being paid to act out a scene of CHILDBIRTH.

All caps doesn't make your point any more compelling. The childbirth scene is pivotal for emotional reasons, and birth scenes are regularly filmed from the chest up and focus on the actors' faces and interactions, because frankly making a birth scene more graphic than that is going to take most viewers out of the scene emotionally. Also many, many women give birth wearing a hospital gown and most birth scenes are filmed with the actress mostly clothed. So no, it was actually not at all normal for the director to assume that the scene would be filmed nude or that Lively would know they expected her to be nude. It's not what is typical for the industry.

And Baldoni and his team either knew that or were very stupid because, as Lively points out, if they'd planned for the birth scene to be done nude all along, they would have scripted it as a nude scene, obtained a nudity rider, and enlisted the intimacy coordinator in choreographing the scene and had her on set that day. They didn't do any of those things. So either they also didn't expect the scene to be nude and just decided on the fly that day that it would be, or they are just extremely bad at their jobs and failed to properly script, storyboard, and follow normal procedure for something that was always planned to be a nude scene.

Either way, they screwed up.

The scene was filmed with her dressed, no? So they suggested something she didn’t want to do, and after she said no, they filmed it the way she wanted it filmed.

No. Read the complaint. She was nude from the waist down with only a small strip of nude fabric covering her genitals, and when she repeatedly asked for something to cover herself with between takes, she was ignored even after multiple requests. It was not even remotely how she wanted it to be filmed.

They also sprang the nudity request on her on the day of filming instead of setting it up in advance. Extremely unprofessional. You don't ask an actor to do a scene nude the day it's shot -- there's intense pressure because if you can't reach a compromise, the scene can be delayed and can cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the cost of the location, other actors and personnel, as well as the costs associated with booking all of that again for a future date.

The Complaint quite clearly says they compromised on this disagreement by covering the upper half of her body.

And clearly states that they still did not have adequate controls for the bottom half of her body with no closed set, difficulty covering herself between takes.