Help my lying and stealing SN eight year old

[Anonymous]

I posted about this on genl parenting and not getting enough replies there. My DS is 8. He has SPD and ADHD. He started lying last year. This year he started stealing things from other kids and even from his teacher.

I can't find a psychiatrist or psychologist that can help specifically with these kind of problems. He's been put on adhd medication to help with inattentiveness and impulse control. It has not helped his impulse control at all.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is a SN issue of impulse control or if it's a character issue. Either way I have no clue as to how to get him to change his behavior. Rewards, punishments, talks, nothing really works. He will promise until he's blue in the face that he won't steal again but two days later he will.

Can anyone recommend an excellent psychiatrist (or psychologist) for this kind of problem? I'm worried that if I don't intervene now he'll end up in jail when he's older!!

[Anonymous]

First I think you need to find a good developmental pediatrician to make sure you have the correct diagnoses and medication. Lots of doctors say they can do this but lots of them just aren;t that good at it.

Second, a behaviorist to work with you on changing the behaviors. It really sounds like a brain thing to me and not a character thing. And if he's doing something as reckless as stealing from the teacher it sounds like a compulsion.

[Anonymous]

I know someone who is working with Dr. Lawrence Brain and seems to be happy.

[Anonymous]

We are in the same exact boat with our 9 y/o son. same issues for a year + now. Also on meds for impulse control. He as been seeing a social worker for play therapy for a year+ but is not getting past the stelig lying thing. It is gum, candy NE smll toys now..... What will it be At 13 y/o.

We've tried every or reactive step and consequence and nothing has worked. Anyone????

[Anonymous]

No child has a naturally bad character of lying and stealing. This is impulse control, immaturity, and depression.

[Anonymous]

These behaviors are pretty developmentally typical at this age, more difficult to extinguish with other challenges in the mix. Keep working at it, it's not a character issue. I'd find a different doc to tweak meds, that would make the biggest difference.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

But if it's developmentally typical at this age why aren't most kids his age doing it? And if it's developmentally typical why the need for meds then?

We've done everything, time outs, time in, chores, talking, positive reinforcement, withdrawal of privileges...nothing works. He's on meds and now on the highest dosage possible.


And he lies with such ease it's frightening.

Otherwise he is a very gentle and polite child...very non-aggressive.
And he lies with such ease it frightens me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

But if it's developmentally typical at this age why aren't most kids his age doing it? And if it's developmentally typical why the need for meds then?

We've done everything, time outs, time in, chores, talking, positive reinforcement, withdrawal of privileges...nothing works. He's on meds and now on the highest dosage possible.


And he lies with such ease it's frightening.

Otherwise he is a very gentle and polite child...very non-aggressive.
And he lies with such ease it frightens me.

I think it's time to let this go for a while.

Here's my perspective. I lied a lot as a child around your child's age. Around age 7-12. I lied because I had no friends, because I was without any self-esteem, and because it was easier to lie than to tell the truth. Also, my parents made it very hard to tell the truth. It was easier to continue to lie than to face my punishments, my constant consequences, my "talks" about lying, etc.

I think sometimes parents make a lot out of a little and it actually leads to a spiral of deepening misbehavior. I don't know if that's what's happening here, but if your child is caught constantly in lies and constantly punished, there may not be any incentive for him to act better. He's so deeply into having a bad reputation he can't see his way out.

Can you try, when you catch him in a bad lie, just saying "That was a lie, wasn't it?" and then letting it go. Otherwise, ignore the small fibs. If he's non aggressive, gentle and polite, I think a lot of this is self esteem and fantasy.

That's my advice.

[Anonymous]

13:06 again. Also, tell him you want him to keep a journal. Give him a notebook or take him to the store and let him pick one out. Let him write whatever he wants in there but tell him you want him to write. He has the soul of a writer. When you catch him in a lie, tell him you want him to put his fantasties in his notebook and send him to his room to do so. But don't make it a punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

But if it's developmentally typical at this age why aren't most kids his age doing it? And if it's developmentally typical why the need for meds then?

We've done everything, time outs, time in, chores, talking, positive reinforcement, withdrawal of privileges...nothing works. He's on meds and now on the highest dosage possible.


And he lies with such ease it's frightening.

Otherwise he is a very gentle and polite child...very non-aggressive.
And he lies with such ease it frightens me.

I think it's time to let this go for a while.

Here's my perspective. I lied a lot as a child around your child's age. Around age 7-12. I lied because I had no friends, because I was without any self-esteem, and because it was easier to lie than to tell the truth. Also, my parents made it very hard to tell the truth. It was easier to continue to lie than to face my punishments, my constant consequences, my "talks" about lying, etc.

I think sometimes parents make a lot out of a little and it actually leads to a spiral of deepening misbehavior. I don't know if that's what's happening here, but if your child is caught constantly in lies and constantly punished, there may not be any incentive for him to act better. He's so deeply into having a bad reputation he can't see his way out.

Can you try, when you catch him in a bad lie, just saying "That was a lie, wasn't it?" and then letting it go. Otherwise, ignore the small fibs. If he's non aggressive, gentle and polite, I think a lot of this is self esteem and fantasy.

That's my advice.

I agree with this advice. I think your anxiety (understandable) is worstening the cycle. I have a very difficult kiddo who did something similar and a typical nephew who did the same from 7-10 or so. I was also very worried. I think it's a way for him to have some power and control, most important to kids with SN who feel out of control inside. Stanley Greenspan wrote a lot about this. It's almost the end of the year. I'd let the school deal with anything that happens there. I'd make a conscious decision that you are only going to make positive statments and let everything else go until August. We also read things like Pinocchio and made a family joke of touching our nose and leaving the rest unsaid. Try to find things that can build his sense of competence and self, martial arts, working with animals, whatever is "his" thing. He is lying as a defense mechanism, it is really common with ADD. Try not to project or worry about the future, just work on calming things down, phrasing things so lying doesn't happen (maybe make statements and observations rather than ask questions) and work on having the best relationship and getting inside the head of your boy. Far easier said than done, I know. I love the journaling suggestion and had one that DC and I passed back and forth, it was helpful. I'd also recommend "The Difficult Child" and "Love and Anger". Also, make sure you and your spouse get out regularly and do whatever you can re: self care to make you as happy and relaxed as possible, I didn't and it tends to make small problems get big. Best to you and your little guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

But if it's developmentally typical at this age why aren't most kids his age doing it? And if it's developmentally typical why the need for meds then?

We've done everything, time outs, time in, chores, talking, positive reinforcement, withdrawal of privileges...nothing works. He's on meds and now on the highest dosage possible.


And he lies with such ease it's frightening.

Otherwise he is a very gentle and polite child...very non-aggressive.
And he lies with such ease it frightens me.

I think it's time to let this go for a while.

Here's my perspective. I lied a lot as a child around your child's age. Around age 7-12. I lied because I had no friends, because I was without any self-esteem, and because it was easier to lie than to tell the truth. Also, my parents made it very hard to tell the truth. It was easier to continue to lie than to face my punishments, my constant consequences, my "talks" about lying, etc.

I think sometimes parents make a lot out of a little and it actually leads to a spiral of deepening misbehavior. I don't know if that's what's happening here, but if your child is caught constantly in lies and constantly punished, there may not be any incentive for him to act better. He's so deeply into having a bad reputation he can't see his way out.

Can you try, when you catch him in a bad lie, just saying "That was a lie, wasn't it?" and then letting it go. Otherwise, ignore the small fibs. If he's non aggressive, gentle and polite, I think a lot of this is self esteem and fantasy.

That's my advice.

I strongly disagree. OP's DC is behaving in increasingly anti-social ways and as he gets older it will become increasingly difficult to alter his behavior. I think its pretty obvious that OP has tried pointing out his lies and its also clear that his behavior is outside the norm. He isn't just lying, he is also stealing and clearly has a very tough time with impulse control. This is not typical behavior. And the fact that he can be polite and non-aggressive does not alter it.

I think OP should see a developmental pediatrician. The fact is that if a doctor addresses an issue and the problem continues, the doctor needs to try something else. The help OP has been getting in inadequate, but I truly believe help is out there. Many of us with SN kids had to go through the awful process of seeing clinician after clinician (and being told by well-meaning people that the behavior was typical and we were over reacting) until we found one who got the problem and proposed effective solutions. I'm sorry this is so difficult for you but I really believe that with the right help, it can get better.

[Anonymous]

What are the kinds of things he is stealing and under what circumstances? What has the school done to address it there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

But if it's developmentally typical at this age why aren't most kids his age doing it? And if it's developmentally typical why the need for meds then?

We've done everything, time outs, time in, chores, talking, positive reinforcement, withdrawal of privileges...nothing works. He's on meds and now on the highest dosage possible.


And he lies with such ease it's frightening.

Otherwise he is a very gentle and polite child...very non-aggressive.
And he lies with such ease it frightens me.

I think it's time to let this go for a while.

Here's my perspective. I lied a lot as a child around your child's age. Around age 7-12. I lied because I had no friends, because I was without any self-esteem, and because it was easier to lie than to tell the truth. Also, my parents made it very hard to tell the truth. It was easier to continue to lie than to face my punishments, my constant consequences, my "talks" about lying, etc.

I think sometimes parents make a lot out of a little and it actually leads to a spiral of deepening misbehavior. I don't know if that's what's happening here, but if your child is caught constantly in lies and constantly punished, there may not be any incentive for him to act better. He's so deeply into having a bad reputation he can't see his way out.

Can you try, when you catch him in a bad lie, just saying "That was a lie, wasn't it?" and then letting it go. Otherwise, ignore the small fibs. If he's non aggressive, gentle and polite, I think a lot of this is self esteem and fantasy.

That's my advice.

I agree with this too, I think the punishing and actually giving him too much attention. I did all of this too at this age. Eventually I stopped, but I wast getting caught, I guess it lost its attraction for me.
If he steals again just calmly say ok it's not your give it back. And let it go.
See if that approach works for a few months

[Anonymous]

OP here. He stole a light uo keychain that was on a kids backpack, his teachers headphones, a flash drive, an iPod, post it notes...

[Anonymous]

A lot of this sounds like impulse + his eyes see it + fun. Very ADD. I realize having him steal an Ipod is upsetting but don't make too much of things like post it notes and keychain. He's not going to end up in jail.

Does he get an allowance?