wait list movement

[Anonymous]

I don't know what to say to someone who thinks anything lower than top 10% is irretrievably unprepared.

This! What planet are you living on where a 3.5-4.0 kid isn't going to be prepared for college? Schools know many high GPA/hogh test score students get many advantages (tutors, test prep, multiple sittings for test, priivate counselor to help with the essay etc). Stop pretending those kids are better or smarter or better prepared than everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are Loudoun County- daughter is in top 10% of her graduating class. No one from this top 10% got accepted to VT, except for those kids with siblings at VT currently and in the Engineering department. No one! Girl in the top 5% students didn't get accepted. If you want to go to VT for Engineering then I suggest applying ED so you have somewhat of a shot. I would love to know the average GPA and stats of the incoming freshman class at VT this year. I only say this because so many kids in the 3.5-4.0 range are going to VT from my daughter's high school (for non engineering majors). And it seems to be purely based on major. Those high stat kids looking for Engineering, sciences, etc seemed to get lumped onto a waitlist. And a lot of OOS kids were accepted and happily agreed to pay that tuition. Not sure what VT was thinking. But, you accept a 3.5 and they're going to take it. The high stats kids going to JMU will be just fine. JMU is an excellent college with so many opportunities and their students are usually very happy and don't transfer. This really sours me on VT. It'll take awhile to get over this. Not sure what's been going on there the past few years with admissions but transparency would be nice.

The counselors at our private school reminded senior families last fall that if VT is high on your college list, you should consider applying ED. They have seen from the last few years that no amount of high stats or gpa will save you if you apply to VT via RD.

Based on that, VT dropped off DS’ list. He has been accepted to engineering/CS at T10 and T20 schools. We are happy he is not in the crazy race for VT. It would do a weird mind game if he is in at CMU but rejected at VT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Schools made their decision this year: they wanted to shake things up and decided that they would reject (or, WL...so soft reject) stellar students. I think the reality of that is just beginning to settle in form many of this years applicants (especially as there is so little waitlist movement). Plenty of high stat kids were shut out of top schools. That was the radical change this year. Say what you will about the larger objectives, there is no way this year's applicants should have been forced to accommodate an enormous sea-change in admissions. It is simply not fair.

My kid (3.9+ UW, 1560 SAT) got WL by VT. He's grown up with every advantage, and if someone with lower stats who's an URM or a first generation student, that seems pretty fair to me.

Not doubting your sincerity. But a better way to help URM students is to give your noble efforts earlier. While kids are still in grade schools, form study groups with URM kids, discuss and review class materials together, remind each other to submit home work in time and help out and support each other. Not at the competition time. You can't give an URM contestant the prize after a Jeopardy game just by saying he/she should have the prize because he/she comes from an URM family. Don't you feel that would be insulting?

[Anonymous]

I agree. My daughter was accepted to a much harder school to get into than VT. Granted it’s out of state but she got money and it puts it less than a UVA or a W&M. I don’t think the person above was saying a 3.5-4.0 isn’t prepared. But then VT needs to change their stats.m to reflect this. I agree about being transparent. They were not at all. And it’s so hard to commit to ED when you aren’t sure. My issue with VT is that they accept based on major. What if you applied with one major but decide you want to switch. Tough, you’re out of luck. My daughter applied engineering but didn’t want that before she even heard back from VT. She would have gotten in with a different major. That’s frustrating. I only support this kind of admissions when there is a direct admit Avenue. If you aren’t guaranteeing engineering then don’t admit based on that. You can also offer the higher stats kids the option of switching their majors. Not every -8 year old has it all figured out. I totally get the frustrations with VT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anyone is arguing that URM’s or first gens shouldn’t be given priority. It just happened so quickly and without warning for this year’s seniors who are already battling so much else. They had the rug pulled out from under them.

100% This year's kids didn't deserve to bear the brunt of seismic shift.

Also, highly qualified URMs and first gen, yes, without a doubt, should have priority. But it is odd (and likely not sustainable) to have elite institutions decide - in one admissions cycle...with no preparation whatsoever - that URM status should be prioritized over all else. A change like that should be discussed, challenged, considered and evaluated before it is implemented. An elite school isn't necessarily the appropriate place for an URM or first gen if that student is not going to be 1) well prepared for the rigor and 2) supported during the college years.

Guess who decides who should go to elite schools and whether they are appropriate places for URMs or first generation? Ding, Ding! The elite colleges themselves. Their institutions, their rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not doubting your sincerity. But a better way to help URM students is to give your noble efforts earlier. While kids are still in grade schools, form study groups with URM kids, discuss and review class materials together, remind each other to submit home work in time and help out and support each other. Not at the competition time. You can't give an URM contestant the prize after a Jeopardy game just by saying he/she should have the prize because he/she comes from an URM family. Don't you feel that would be insulting?

You know what's insulting?

Reducing students' worth to GPAs and test scores.
Assuming that kids need some sort of White Knight to hover over their every move.
Claiming that admission to a college is a "prize" that has always gone to the most virtuous.
Thinking that well-intentioned in other fields know best how to address the opportunity gap in American education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Schools made their decision this year: they wanted to shake things up and decided that they would reject (or, WL...so soft reject) stellar students. I think the reality of that is just beginning to settle in form many of this years applicants (especially as there is so little waitlist movement). Plenty of high stat kids were shut out of top schools. That was the radical change this year. Say what you will about the larger objectives, there is no way this year's applicants should have been forced to accommodate an enormous sea-change in admissions. It is simply not fair.

My kid (3.9+ UW, 1560 SAT) got WL by VT. He's grown up with every advantage, and if someone with lower stats who's an URM or a first generation student, that seems pretty fair to me.

Fair to whom? The lower stat kid who won't be prepared?

Admission to an elite, highly competitive school is predicated on being prepared. True, there are issues that need to be addressed about how do we ensure the more students are prepared - that is important. But, the solution cannot legitimately be to simply decide that, prepared or not, we want more URM or first gen kids. That is a great disservice to all.

Also, we're not talking about educational access here (there are public state universities that are charged with providing broad access to higher education). We're talking about admission to the most elite institutions. That is fundamentally different. This year, those institutions decided - without adequate preparation or planning - that their stated criteria for admissions no longer apply. Changing the rules mid-stream is rarely a good idea and rarely leads to a positive result (for anyone).

Assumes facts not in evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else thinking the deck chairs will reshuffle again after freshman year or so. Underprepared students may transfer/drop out of highly competitive schools, and high performing students transfer in? Or is the thinking that instruction and curriculum will accommodate less prepared students?

The shifting that needs to happen is for parents to stop focusing on "elite" schools. There are so many schools that will provide strong students a wonderful education, but parents view anything other than an "elite" school as a failure. A shift like that will cut back on the crazy need for kids to fill every waking minute with school or extracurriculars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Loudoun County- daughter is in top 10% of her graduating class. No one from this top 10% got accepted to VT, except for those kids with siblings at VT currently and in the Engineering department. No one! Girl in the top 5% students didn't get accepted. If you want to go to VT for Engineering then I suggest applying ED so you have somewhat of a shot. I would love to know the average GPA and stats of the incoming freshman class at VT this year. I only say this because so many kids in the 3.5-4.0 range are going to VT from my daughter's high school (for non engineering majors). And it seems to be purely based on major. Those high stat kids looking for Engineering, sciences, etc seemed to get lumped onto a waitlist. And a lot of OOS kids were accepted and happily agreed to pay that tuition. Not sure what VT was thinking. But, you accept a 3.5 and they're going to take it. The high stats kids going to JMU will be just fine. JMU is an excellent college with so many opportunities and their students are usually very happy and don't transfer. This really sours me on VT. It'll take awhile to get over this. Not sure what's been going on there the past few years with admissions but transparency would be nice.

The counselors at our private school reminded senior families last fall that if VT is high on your college list, you should consider applying ED. They have seen from the last few years that no amount of high stats or gpa will save you if you apply to VT via RD.

Based on that, VT dropped off DS’ list. He has been accepted to engineering/CS at T10 and T20 schools. We are happy he is not in the crazy race for VT. It would do a weird mind game if he is in at CMU but rejected at VT.

VT is 100% clear that their RD is only on a space-available basis. If you are paying attention at all you at least apply EA. But that's what was super unpredictable this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not doubting your sincerity. But a better way to help URM students is to give your noble efforts earlier. While kids are still in grade schools, form study groups with URM kids, discuss and review class materials together, remind each other to submit home work in time and help out and support each other. Not at the competition time. You can't give an URM contestant the prize after a Jeopardy game just by saying he/she should have the prize because he/she comes from an URM family. Don't you feel that would be insulting?

You know what's insulting?

Reducing students' worth to GPAs and test scores.
Assuming that kids need some sort of White Knight to hover over their every move.
Claiming that admission to a college is a "prize" that has always gone to the most virtuous.
Thinking that well-intentioned in other fields know best how to address the opportunity gap in American education.

What does this have to do with White Knight?!? If you look at the stats of high achieving kids in all Loudoun County high schools you will see a VERY diverse and largely asian represented group of kids. The top 5% of any high school is not majority white!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Loudoun County- daughter is in top 10% of her graduating class. No one from this top 10% got accepted to VT, except for those kids with siblings at VT currently and in the Engineering department. No one! Girl in the top 5% students didn't get accepted. If you want to go to VT for Engineering then I suggest applying ED so you have somewhat of a shot. I would love to know the average GPA and stats of the incoming freshman class at VT this year. I only say this because so many kids in the 3.5-4.0 range are going to VT from my daughter's high school (for non engineering majors). And it seems to be purely based on major. Those high stat kids looking for Engineering, sciences, etc seemed to get lumped onto a waitlist. And a lot of OOS kids were accepted and happily agreed to pay that tuition. Not sure what VT was thinking. But, you accept a 3.5 and they're going to take it. The high stats kids going to JMU will be just fine. JMU is an excellent college with so many opportunities and their students are usually very happy and don't transfer. This really sours me on VT. It'll take awhile to get over this. Not sure what's been going on there the past few years with admissions but transparency would be nice.

The counselors at our private school reminded senior families last fall that if VT is high on your college list, you should consider applying ED. They have seen from the last few years that no amount of high stats or gpa will save you if you apply to VT via RD.

Based on that, VT dropped off DS’ list. He has been accepted to engineering/CS at T10 and T20 schools. We are happy he is not in the crazy race for VT. It would do a weird mind game if he is in at CMU but rejected at VT.

VT is 100% clear that their RD is only on a space-available basis. If you are paying attention at all you at least apply EA. But that's what was super unpredictable this year.

I don’t know anyone who applied RD to VT. All the waitlisted kids at My school applied EA and got waitlisted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Schools made their decision this year: they wanted to shake things up and decided that they would reject (or, WL...so soft reject) stellar students. I think the reality of that is just beginning to settle in form many of this years applicants (especially as there is so little waitlist movement). Plenty of high stat kids were shut out of top schools. That was the radical change this year. Say what you will about the larger objectives, there is no way this year's applicants should have been forced to accommodate an enormous sea-change in admissions. It is simply not fair.

My kid (3.9+ UW, 1560 SAT) got WL by VT. He's grown up with every advantage, and if someone with lower stats who's an URM or a first generation student, that seems pretty fair to me.

Fair to whom? The lower stat kid who won't be prepared?

Admission to an elite, highly competitive school is predicated on being prepared. True, there are issues that need to be addressed about how do we ensure the more students are prepared - that is important. But, the solution cannot legitimately be to simply decide that, prepared or not, we want more URM or first gen kids. That is a great disservice to all.

Also, we're not talking about educational access here (there are public state universities that are charged with providing broad access to higher education). We're talking about admission to the most elite institutions. That is fundamentally different. This year, those institutions decided - without adequate preparation or planning - that their stated criteria for admissions no longer apply. Changing the rules mid-stream is rarely a good idea and rarely leads to a positive result (for anyone).

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Nope. Not changing the rules in mid-stream accepted as "reasonable process in everything from law to project planning. It's kinda the basis of a fair process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not doubting your sincerity. But a better way to help URM students is to give your noble efforts earlier. While kids are still in grade schools, form study groups with URM kids, discuss and review class materials together, remind each other to submit home work in time and help out and support each other. Not at the competition time. You can't give an URM contestant the prize after a Jeopardy game just by saying he/she should have the prize because he/she comes from an URM family. Don't you feel that would be insulting?

You know what's insulting?

Reducing students' worth to GPAs and test scores.
Assuming that kids need some sort of White Knight to hover over their every move.
Claiming that admission to a college is a "prize" that has always gone to the most virtuous.
Thinking that well-intentioned in other fields know best how to address the opportunity gap in American education.

What does this have to do with White Knight?!? If you look at the stats of high achieving kids in all Loudoun County high schools you will see a VERY diverse and largely asian represented group of kids. The top 5% of any high school is not majority white!

I would explain what the term means, but you seem to think you're an expert in all things, so never mind.

[Anonymous]

How about we go back to the original question: is there any current waitlist movement (or any expected this week)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about we go back to the original question: is there any current waitlist movement (or any expected this week)?

Nothing being reported on CC other than a lot of schools are saying there will be no WL movement, or that it's highly unlikely.
Time for kids to mentally move on. The big WL shake out we all anticipated is not going to happen. What a crazy cycle this was!