Duke vs. UVA (In-State)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Duke is EXTREMELY difficult to get into. If he does make the cut, count yourself fortunate. Their applicant acceptance rate was 10% as of 4 years ago.

If your DS is accepted at Duke, do whatever it take to send him there. A fantastic school with a far-reaching reputation and stellar academic programs than that dive bar in Charlottesville could ever muster. UVA as a "safety school" perhaps, but it's certainly not in league with Duke.

LOL

I went to Duke ('07) and I wouldn't put my child into debt to go there, honestly. UVA is a great opportunity.

I went to a different SLAC, now $80K a year, and I didn't even think of it for my children. A friend who graduated from Duke Law school (now $103K) said to steer clear - not worth it. We sent one to UVA. The second wasn't a UVA candidate so went to another Virginia in-state school. Now both are talking about grad school so we're glad we banked the money (especially in this market!) for grad school expenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you live in Northern Virginia, UVA admission is not a sure thing, even for high stats kids...

Yup, lots of denied already happened. I’d suggest you apply to more than just Duke and UVA. The world is different than we applied. Even with perfect GPA and SAT, people are getting denied from MIT and Chicago this Fall.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don't forget South Carolina where the kids can get up to a 6.0 in a class for honors-AP-double honors-some nonsense.

PP is correct. This has shifted the irrefutable selectivity ranking as follows:

1) UNC Chapel Hill 4.7
2) Clemson 4.43
3) UVA 4.3
4) UM College Park 4.28
5) South Carolina 4.21
6) Harvard 4.18
7) Stanford 3.95
8) Princeton 3.90

Don't forget Florida!:

1) UNC Chapel Hill 4.7
2) Clemson 4.43
3) Florida 4.42
4) UVA 4.3
5) UM College Park 4.28
6) South Carolina 4.21
7) Harvard 4.18
8) Stanford 3.95
9) Princeton 3.90

The only thing standardized in admissions is standardized test scores, and many schools are trying to scuttle that or go test optional or get around it through loopholes (foreigners not counted, spring admits not counted).

Still, the more accurate stats are posted every fall by the State Higher Education Council of Virginia, has UVA median at a 4.35 and a 4.49 for 75th percentile. If you are unhooked and applying from NoVA, you better be aiming for the top 75th percentile which is 4.49 GPA; 34 ACT or 1500 SAT or higher. These are the scores of actual entering students, not acceptances (which are higher stats because a number of students peel off and go Ivy or SLACs). I know a lot of UVA legacy students who had that 75th percentile package last year and did not get in even as legacies.

GPA: 4.49 (75th percentile); 4.35 median; 4.25 bottom 25th
ACT: 34 (75th percentile); 33 median; 30 bottom 25th
SAT 1500 (75th percentile): 1430 median; 1340 bottom

Man, I actually looked up SHECV. UVa is not even the most selective school in Virignia. Its SAT / ACT scores are slightly lower than those of W&L. Do you think Duke is worse than W&L?

https://research.schev.edu/enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

. You are looking at UVA-Wise, not UVA. The UVA entries are temporarily down.

I was looking at 2018-2019 numbers. UVA-C is behind W&L.

Still wrong. The UVA numbers aren't posted right now for 2019-20. (Or you are looking at VCU, not UVA) But most college counselors print them out when the Commonwealth issues them. For fall of 2019 (class of 2024), UVA had higher stats than W&M.in ACTs and GPA and across the board for all categories in median. The SATs scores for UVA's entering class at the 75th/50th/25th percentiles were 1500/1430/1340. ACT scores were 34/33/30; GPA 4.49/4.35/4.21

At W&M the SATs were 1510/1410/1320; ACT scores were 34/32/30 and GPA was 4.46/4.26/4.07.

The big difference are the scores for the median of the classes with UVA having an average entering GPA of 4.35 and W&M at 4.26. Similarly, there is a gap in median SAT scores with UVA at 1430 and W&MM at 1420. UVA's ACT median is a 33 compared to W&M's 32.

Your reading comprehension sucks. The PP wrote "W&L", not "W&M". Or perhaps you do this intentionally. . .

Why would I do anything intentionally? Your post makes no sense. PPs had been talking about W&M, so clearly that's what the PP was talking about I guess. That PP can't even read a chart to save their life. They couldn't get UVA, right - they went with UVA-Wise, which tells you a lot about the poster to begin with. Then they claimed UVA-C - there is no such thing. Now W&L. Whatever. UVA's stats are ahead of W&M. Which the PP had said wasn't the case. It is as of 2019-2020.

PP always wrote W&L. Anyone can see that. Why double down?

Seriously, but I suppose the dumbs are always going to dumb.

PP here. Seriously, where did I say W&M? W&M is another public school in Virginia, which doesn’t really matter for this discussion. W&L is a private college in Virginia and its stats are apparently better than UVa’s. Now if you compare W&L with Duke, another private college, which one do you think is better? What does it mean for a comparison between UVa and Duke? I know it’s obvious to everyone except for one person who kept insisting UVa’s admission is harder than Duke’s.

Are you the same person?

[Anonymous]

Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

Based on average net price and earnings, projected ROI for Duke (actually Net Present Value) is significantly higher than UVA. 30 Year NPV rank is 26 for Duke ($1.327M) vs a rank of 128 and $0.981M for UVA. This analysis was done by the Center for Education and the Workforce and is based on federal data. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/

The Center for Education and the Workforce also did analysis which compares actual earnings at colleges to expected earnings based on selectivity and the mix of majors of graduates (certain majors, like engineering, have significantly higher salaries, at least initially, than many other majors). In that study, median earnings for Duke graduates was $76,700 vs expected of $61,800, for a "value add" of $14,900. UVA had median earnings of $58,600 vs expected of $61,000, for a value add of negative $2,400.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/publications/reports/page/2/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

+1 - This is exactly how I feel. DS is interested in engineering, so this is especially true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

+1 - This is exactly how I feel. DS is interested in engineering, so this is especially true!

There are far more than 5 schools better than UVA in engineering. It has historically been a weaker part of UVA. But I do appreciate cost differentials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

Based on average net price and earnings, projected ROI for Duke (actually Net Present Value) is significantly higher than UVA. 30 Year NPV rank is 26 for Duke ($1.327M) vs a rank of 128 and $0.981M for UVA. This analysis was done by the Center for Education and the Workforce and is based on federal data. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/

The Center for Education and the Workforce also did analysis which compares actual earnings at colleges to expected earnings based on selectivity and the mix of majors of graduates (certain majors, like engineering, have significantly higher salaries, at least initially, than many other majors). In that study, median earnings for Duke graduates was $76,700 vs expected of $61,800, for a "value add" of $14,900. UVA had median earnings of $58,600 vs expected of $61,000, for a value add of negative $2,400.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/publications/reports/page/2/

Those are significant differences. I wonder what accounts for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

+1 - This is exactly how I feel. DS is interested in engineering, so this is especially true!

There are far more than 5 schools better than UVA in engineering. It has historically been a weaker part of UVA. But I do appreciate cost differentials.

My point was that for engineering there aren't but only a few schools that I'd pay additional for. If you have financial aid and it's equal or less than in state schools, then great, go for it. We are a donut hole family, so if DS doesn't get into S or M, then he needs to find a school that costs the same or less than our in-state options (most likely VT).

[Anonymous]

Do those ROI reports take into account the family connections/status/privilege? I’m willing to bet those account for lots of the difference between certain private and public schools.

I’m with the PP— ours won’t go private without lots of aid unless MIT, Caltech and maybe Harvard or Princeton. And this from someone who went to Duke. Not worth it anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do those ROI reports take into account the family connections/status/privilege? I’m willing to bet those account for lots of the difference between certain private and public schools.

I’m with the PP— ours won’t go private without lots of aid unless MIT, Caltech and maybe Harvard or Princeton. And this from someone who went to Duke. Not worth it anymore.

If you don't come from connections or privilege, it could be that you are more likely to be exposed to it and benefit from it at Duke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

Based on average net price and earnings, projected ROI for Duke (actually Net Present Value) is significantly higher than UVA. 30 Year NPV rank is 26 for Duke ($1.327M) vs a rank of 128 and $0.981M for UVA. This analysis was done by the Center for Education and the Workforce and is based on federal data. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/

The Center for Education and the Workforce also did analysis which compares actual earnings at colleges to expected earnings based on selectivity and the mix of majors of graduates (certain majors, like engineering, have significantly higher salaries, at least initially, than many other majors). In that study, median earnings for Duke graduates was $76,700 vs expected of $61,800, for a "value add" of $14,900. UVA had median earnings of $58,600 vs expected of $61,000, for a value add of negative $2,400.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/publications/reports/page/2/

Those are significant differences. I wonder what accounts for it.

Majors. UVA probably has more students in the “helping professions” areas, where we tent to underpay people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

Based on average net price and earnings, projected ROI for Duke (actually Net Present Value) is significantly higher than UVA. 30 Year NPV rank is 26 for Duke ($1.327M) vs a rank of 128 and $0.981M for UVA. This analysis was done by the Center for Education and the Workforce and is based on federal data. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/

The Center for Education and the Workforce also did analysis which compares actual earnings at colleges to expected earnings based on selectivity and the mix of majors of graduates (certain majors, like engineering, have significantly higher salaries, at least initially, than many other majors). In that study, median earnings for Duke graduates was $76,700 vs expected of $61,800, for a "value add" of $14,900. UVA had median earnings of $58,600 vs expected of $61,000, for a value add of negative $2,400.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/publications/reports/page/2/

Those are significant differences. I wonder what accounts for it.

Majors. UVA probably has more students in the “helping professions” areas, where we tent to underpay people.

Quick google results. UVA has a school for education. Duke only has an education minor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

Based on average net price and earnings, projected ROI for Duke (actually Net Present Value) is significantly higher than UVA. 30 Year NPV rank is 26 for Duke ($1.327M) vs a rank of 128 and $0.981M for UVA. This analysis was done by the Center for Education and the Workforce and is based on federal data. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/

The Center for Education and the Workforce also did analysis which compares actual earnings at colleges to expected earnings based on selectivity and the mix of majors of graduates (certain majors, like engineering, have significantly higher salaries, at least initially, than many other majors). In that study, median earnings for Duke graduates was $76,700 vs expected of $61,800, for a "value add" of $14,900. UVA had median earnings of $58,600 vs expected of $61,000, for a value add of negative $2,400.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/publications/reports/page/2/

Those are significant differences. I wonder what accounts for it.

Majors. UVA probably has more students in the “helping professions” areas, where we tent to underpay people.

Quick google results. UVA has a school for education. Duke only has an education minor.

The second of the CEW reports above accounts for the different mix of majors at the schools. It calculates expected earnings based on the majors of graduates. Then it compares that to actual median earnings based on government data. Duke does significantly better in that (median of $77K vs expected of $62K) than UVA (median of $59K vs expected of $61K).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless it's one of the top 5 (HYPMS) I would not be willing to pay $75K. Sure there is a tier of schools (Chicago, Northwest, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UPenn, ..., etc. come to mind) that I believe are more prestigious than UVA, but they are not worth that much a tuition difference compared to in-state UVA, if you are the one to pay in full and you are not the super rich.

If you could get a financial aid that makes the whole cost at those schools comparable to UVA, sure definitely pick those schools. Otherwise, need to think harder before you decide.

Based on average net price and earnings, projected ROI for Duke (actually Net Present Value) is significantly higher than UVA. 30 Year NPV rank is 26 for Duke ($1.327M) vs a rank of 128 and $0.981M for UVA. This analysis was done by the Center for Education and the Workforce and is based on federal data. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/

The Center for Education and the Workforce also did analysis which compares actual earnings at colleges to expected earnings based on selectivity and the mix of majors of graduates (certain majors, like engineering, have significantly higher salaries, at least initially, than many other majors). In that study, median earnings for Duke graduates was $76,700 vs expected of $61,800, for a "value add" of $14,900. UVA had median earnings of $58,600 vs expected of $61,000, for a value add of negative $2,400.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/publications/reports/page/2/

Even if the number is true, the NPV for the cost difference of UVA in-state makes the difference insignificant.