How would you feel about losing your company-provided health insurance for "medicare for all"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Almost every Westernized country says so. It’s (healthcare for its citizens) a sign of a civilized educated nation.

Yeah but the thing nobody wants to mention is how difficult is to immigrate to these countries compared to the US. I tried to see if I could work in Toronto after college - it was next to impossible, I didn’t have the right skills. I’m pretty educated and have a good job in the States.

This is true. It's also true that universal coverage generally applies to citizens, not non-citizens, and only emergency aid (with high bills) is given otherwise.

Have we been watching the same Democratic debates? Because that’s not what Warren and others have been proposing - decriminalizing the border, providing a pathway to citizenship, & then Medicare for All. I don’t believe you can have both.

Her specific reiterated quote has been "affordable health care for every American." I suppose you could argue about what is meant by "American." I suspect it is clarified in her platform, but I haven't looked in that detail because I am not going to be voting for her.

But generally, as I said (in reference to other countries with universal coverage), coverage is limited to citizens and legal permanent residents.

She raised her hand in reference to “would your plan cover undocumented immigrants?”, did she not?

I don't know, because I'm not obsessed with following her. As I said previously, I'm not voting for her. I'm certainly not interested in defending her position to you.

As I said, generally other countries who have universal healthcare coverage limit it to citizens and legal permanent residents. Make of that what you will -- I don't care all that much, other than to have claims of fact that matter to me to be accurate.

I don't think this is true. Sorry. I have friends and family members who travel a lot, who live both here and in other countries. Their interactions with countries with universal healthcare have been much more positive than friends of mine who have traveled to the US and had medical emergencies here. Overseas sometimes they had zero charges for hospital stays, sometimes they have very reasonable (aka dirt cheap) charges for hospital stays. And the US bills for people who had emergencies here were over 100k.

My experience has really been the opposite of what you are claiming, so where do your claims come from? I think it is just talking points but not based in fact.

Name the countries.

Not the PP. But I’ll chime in: UK and Canada.
A friend also had a very good experience in germany.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost every Westernized country says so. It’s (healthcare for its citizens) a sign of a civilized educated nation.

Yeah but the thing nobody wants to mention is how difficult is to immigrate to these countries compared to the US. I tried to see if I could work in Toronto after college - it was next to impossible, I didn’t have the right skills. I’m pretty educated and have a good job in the States.

This is true. It's also true that universal coverage generally applies to citizens, not non-citizens, and only emergency aid (with high bills) is given otherwise.

Have we been watching the same Democratic debates? Because that’s not what Warren and others have been proposing - decriminalizing the border, providing a pathway to citizenship, & then Medicare for All. I don’t believe you can have both.

Her specific reiterated quote has been "affordable health care for every American." I suppose you could argue about what is meant by "American." I suspect it is clarified in her platform, but I haven't looked in that detail because I am not going to be voting for her.

But generally, as I said (in reference to other countries with universal coverage), coverage is limited to citizens and legal permanent residents.

She raised her hand in reference to “would your plan cover undocumented immigrants?”, did she not?

I don't know, because I'm not obsessed with following her. As I said previously, I'm not voting for her. I'm certainly not interested in defending her position to you.

As I said, generally other countries who have universal healthcare coverage limit it to citizens and legal permanent residents. Make of that what you will -- I don't care all that much, other than to have claims of fact that matter to me to be accurate.

I don't think this is true. Sorry. I have friends and family members who travel a lot, who live both here and in other countries. Their interactions with countries with universal healthcare have been much more positive than friends of mine who have traveled to the US and had medical emergencies here. Overseas sometimes they had zero charges for hospital stays, sometimes they have very reasonable (aka dirt cheap) charges for hospital stays. And the US bills for people who had emergencies here were over 100k.

My experience has really been the opposite of what you are claiming, so where do your claims come from? I think it is just talking points but not based in fact.

Name the countries.

Not the PP. But I’ll chime in: UK and Canada.
A friend also had a very good experience in germany.

DP.. when we went to the UK one time, DC had an ear infection. The hospital there saw DC and didn't ask for papers. No charge. Another time we were in Spain, and we forgot DC's inhaler. We found a doctor who saw DC and prescribed the inhaler -- total bill = $35, and I mean USD, it was something like 25 Euros, when the fx rate was pretty high.

Here.. forget it. The doctor's bill alone would be $200, and the inhaler is $85, exact same one we got from Spain.

[Anonymous]

I mean, I can tell you about the ones with which I am most familiar, but I have also looked at others. It's a part of my job to do international comparisons.

Germany:

In Germany, it is a legal requirement to have some form of health coverage, whether public or private, and it is even a requirement when starting a job in Germany. …

•Does Germany have free public healthcare?

Yes, all Germans and legal residents of Germany are entitled to free “medically necessary” public healthcare, which is funded by social security contributions. However, citizens must still have either state or private health insurance, covering at least hospital and outpatient medical treatment and pregnancy.
...
If you need a visa to come to Germany, or a residence permit to stay in the country, you usually have to show proof of healthcare coverage as well. Only if you have some sort of special status (e.g. when transferred to Germany for a limited period) is it sometimes possible to avoid signing up for health insurance in Germany.
…
What if You Don’t Have Health Insurance?

Having no German health insurance means having to pay upfront for everything – unless it’s a serious emergency and if you’re an EU citizen. Most EU citizens will get reimbursed for such emergency treatments by reciprocal insurance coverage between Germany and their home countries. However, for nationals of other countries, it will depend on the insurance plan they have in their country of origin.
…
Please consider that small private hospitals in Germany might not have an emergency room. When you arrive at a clinic for an emergency, you’ll normally receive treatment even if you do not carry proof of health insurance with you. However, if you do not have any health insurance at all, the treatment is going to be very expensive. If you decide against a German health insurance plan, check with your insurance company at home whether they will reimburse you for medical treatment at hospitals in Germany.
https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-germany/healthcare

Canada:

From the Rockies to the Red River, it’s springtime in Canada, and that means an influx of visitors from around the world. According to the Canadian Tourism Commission, Canada received over 17 million visitors in 2014, and each one was vulnerable to the costs of the Canadian health care system.

“Health care in Canada is expensive,” says Robin Ingle, Chairman of travel and health insurance group Ingle International. “There are common misconceptions about the Canadian health care system and what it will and won’t cover—a non-resident visitor can expect to pay up to $5,000 per day in a hospital and double that for the intensive care unit,” explains Ingle.

Ingle defines a visitor as anyone visiting from another country, new immigrants, and returning Canadians. All visitors within these categories require travel and health insurance while in Canada, and it is up to them to make appropriate arrangements prior to their departure.

Visitors need to know that foreign national insurance plans may not cover Canadian medical costs and most government health insurance plans in countries around the world will not cover accidents or medical emergencies incurred by their residents while travelling in Canada. Canadian provincial health insurance does not cover non-resident visitors, even if they are visiting family—uninsured visitors are expected to pay in full for medical bills incurred in Canada.

Just because you have provincial health care in Canada, does not mean it will never lapse. If you’ve been out of the country for a long period, you have to reapply for coverage when you return. The same process applies for new immigrants and international students studying in Canada. These groups are vulnerable to the high costs of Canadian health care during this wait period, which depending on the province, is at least 3 months.
https://blog.ingleinternational.com/canada-welcomes-visitors-but-not-their-health-bills-what-you-need-to-know-to-make-sure-your-visitors-are-insured/

New Zealand:

Paying for healthcare services

You may be eligible for New Zealand's public healthcare system, for which the government pays most of the costs. If you are not eligible, make sure you have travel insurance that includes health cover.

If you are eligible, you could get free or subsidised health and disability services in New Zealand which include:
-subsidised primary healthcare services, eg doctor’s visits
-subsidies on prescribed medicines
-free public hospital services
-support services if you have disabilities.

If you are not eligible for government-funded healthcare, you can still use these services. However, you will usually need to pay for them. The government strongly recommends you get comprehensive travel insurance with health cover if you are not eligible for subsidised healthcare.

If you are injured while you are in New Zealand, the Accident Compensation Scheme (ACC) usually covers most costs for treatment and rehabilitation for residents as well as visitors. The ACC website has details on what is covered.
...
Who is eligible for subsidised healthcare

You may be eligible for subsidised healthcare if you are:
-a New Zealand citizen or permanent resident or resident (exceptions apply if you are an Australian citizen or permanent resident - check the Ministry of Health website)
-a work visa holder who is allowed to work here for 2 years or more
-the holder of a work visa that allows you to work here 2 years or more when combined with time you have spent in New Zealand just before getting your current work visa.

For example, you qualify if you had a visa that allowed you to be in New Zealand for one year, and you now have a work visa that allows you to stay another year.

-under 17 and your parent or guardian is eligible
an interim visa holder who was eligible immediately before you got the interim visa
-a refugee or protected person.
https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/living-in-nz/healthcare/paying-for-healthcare-services

Individual providers may chose to waive their fees (I did occasionally, for Americans when I worked in Canada), but that's at provider discretion. It's also not because you are covered by the universal coverage system. New Zealand is a little different, but you are paying into it if you are working there, and it is for emergency accident coverage-- and as I said previously, "generally."

[Anonymous]

Let me repost that:

Individual providers may chose to waive their fees (I did occasionally, for Americans when I worked in Canada), but that's at provider discretion. It's also not because you are covered by the universal coverage system. New Zealand is a little different, but you are paying into it if you are working there, and it is for emergency accident coverage-- and as I said previously, "generally."

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You probably had someone waive provider fees because it wasn't worth the hassle. There's no guarantee, though, and that doesn't apply to EDs or hospital stays.

Glad you worked with a kind sawbuck, though

[Anonymous]

Fed Gov might Have a hard time hiring and keeping workers I'd hey drop health insurance. It's one of the few financial reasons to work there.

Plus there's no chance salaries would be raised to offset this.

[Anonymous]

I just had to reschedule a dentist appointment because I'd reached my max benefits for the year provided by my insurance - I had a filling a few months ago on top of the routine biannual exam and cleaning, and that put me over their $500 annual cap. One filling.

By my top-of-the-head estimate, I contribute at least $3000 p/year for health insurance, and I have to pay out of pocket for going over $500? That is not a good return on my investment - not even close. In fact, I would call it a scam.

I can't wait for the United States to grow the f*ck up and join the rest of the civilized world in providing publicly-funded health care for all of its citizens.

[Anonymous]

Ok i'll just say why should I pay for people who won't take care of themselves

people who don't eat right, people who don't exercise. Those are the people that cost the most that is why US healthcare is so much more expensive

so no I don't want to subsidize other people until we fix the moral hazard problem

We need some type of auto insurance type plan where good health habits/driving lowers what you pay.

[Anonymous]

[reformatted for clarity]

^^ sawbones

UK:

What happens if, as a visitor, you need a doctor in the UK?

Can you get free medical care under the National Health Service (NHS)?

The answer to this straightforward question is maybe, but probably not. It's complicated.

Residents of the UK and certain others, defined by complicated rules, have free access to some levels of medical services delivered by the NHS. The National Health List of those countries outside the EU with reciprocal healthcare agreements - and the limits of those agreements - is a short one. You may also need to pay an Immigration Health Service Surcharge (IHS) Certificate if you are applying to stay in the UK for more than six months. Check the exemptions from this surcharge here.

If you are a short term visitor, from outside the EU, just in the UK on vacation, you may have access to some of these services too. But rules put in place to prevent health tourism - arriving in the UK for free medical treatment - mean you'll still need travel health insurance and will usually have to pay for most non-emergency medical and dental services.

New Healthcare Surcharges for Students and Employees

At one time, students on long term courses - such as university courses - and employees of foreign companies working in the UK were covered by free NHS services. But new rules went into effect in April 2015 requiring the payment of a healthcare surcharge of £200 per year (£150 per year for students).
The surcharge is imposed when you apply for a student or work visa and must be paid in advance (to cover every year of your stay) with your application.
If you are student attending a 3-year university course, or an employee of a company on a multi-year assignment, the surcharge costs less than travel health insurance for the same period. Once the surcharge is paid, you'll be covered by the free NHS services in the same way as British subjects and permanent residents.

Emergency treatment is free

If you have an accident or need emergency medical treatment, you will receive that treatment free of charge, regardless of your nationality or place of residence as long as that emergency treatment is delivered at:
- a primary care facility or General Practitioner's office, known as a GP's Surgery
- a hospital emergency room, called Accident and Emergency (A&E) or Casualty in UK hospitals
- A walk-in center providing services similar to an emergency room.

That service only extends to the immediate emergency. Once you are admitted to a hospital - even for emergency surgery or further emergency treatment - you have to pay for your treatment and medicines. If you are asked to return for a clinic visit to follow up your emergency treatment, you will also have to pay for that. If the doctor prescribes medication, you'll have to pay the full retail price rather than the subsidized price paid by UK residents. And, if you run up charges of £1,000 and you or your insurance company fail to pay within the specified time, you could be denied a visa in the future.

https://www.tripsavvy.com/visitors-using-free-uk-medical-services-1662372

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Point is, it's not that the healthcare system is covering oyu, it's that you are receiving the charity of an individual. That charity only extends so far, is not guaranteed, and may (if relied on exclusively) put you at risk for penalties, including future visa issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just had to reschedule a dentist appointment because I'd reached my max benefits for the year provided by my insurance - I had a filling a few months ago on top of the routine biannual exam and cleaning, and that put me over their $500 annual cap. One filling.

By my top-of-the-head estimate, I contribute at least $3000 p/year for health insurance, and I have to pay out of pocket for going over $500? That is not a good return on my investment - not even close. In fact, I would call it a scam.

I can't wait for the United States to grow the f*ck up and join the rest of the civilized world in providing publicly-funded health care for all of its citizens.

you are talking about dental vs medical

but use your brain

if premiums are higher than coverage why have coverage?!?!?!?!

[Anonymous]

Spain:

Non-Resident Visitors to Spain

If you are visiting Spain, or staying here as a non-resident, it is important to know how you stand with regard to healthcare.


European Visitors

All EU and European Economic Area (EEA) nationals below retirement age who visit Spain for a short holiday are entitled to free or reduced-cost emergency medical healthcare and treatments at all Spanish public medical centres and hospitals on production of a valid European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). …

Healthcare for non-resident visitors - Covered for medical emergencies

Reciprocal cover for medical emergencies

If you require emergency treatment while on holiday in Spain, ensure that you produce your EHIC on arrival at the medical centre. This reciprocal agreement only covers you for medical emergencies carried out within the state sector, and does not extend to repatriation due to illness, so you should not treat your EHIC as an alternative to private medical insurance.

Your EHIC can be used EU-wide and in EEA countries Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

-----------------
Non-European Visitors

Non-Europeans requiring a visa for visiting or living in Spain will most likely have to prove they have adequate medical insurance before they are granted entry to the country. It is, therefore, highly unlikely that a legal non-European visitor to Spain isn't covered by at least some sort of healthcare provision. Nevertheless, all Spanish state hospitals are required to provide vital primary healthcare to any patient who is admitted to hospital with life-threatening injuries or illness, regardless of their ability to pay.

https://www.yourviva.com/living-in-spain/healthcare-costa-del-sol/non-resident-visitors
https://www.expatica.com/es/healthcare/healthcare-basics/healthcare-system-101467/

Note this:

Expensive health care lesson for American in Spain

I had a 9-day trip in Mallorca, my first time on the island. I've been to Spain several times and Europe almost every year.

I needed emergency care due to blood loss. I had had blood in the stool for about the last 4-5 days of the trip but didn't recognize it as such. So on a Sunday, the day before I was to leave, I fainted in the hotel lobby in Puerto Pollensa.

They called a doctor who checked my blood pressure, found it low and he believed I should go to hospital to test for blood loss. There were two hospitals in Puerto Pollensa but both were closed on Sunday.

He said I could go to a private clinic in Alcudia or to the national hospital in Inca. He did emphasize that it was a private company in Alcudia but I opted to go there since it was closer (though I realize later it was on the main highway so it would have been about the same).

The Alcudia clinic took some blood samples, found my blood pressure even way lower. They said I need to go to their hospital in Palma. I asked how much would all this cost, since I'm not an EU citizen. They said the private hospital will check my insurance and then if I don't have it, move me to the public hospital there.

…

At this point, the translator said they needed a deposit from me 1500 Euros. I asked again about public hospital. I said my credit card may provide some form of travel insurance (found out later that it did provide some but I'll have to make claims to see what happens). She again said it would be the same situation either way, I'd be paying a lot.

So she brought the little credit card terminal to the bed and charged. My iPhone instantly showed a charge of over $1686 for what is suppose to be a 1500 Euro deposit. I did the math and found that they were using an exchange rate of about 1.12 or greater vs. the official rate of 1.06. I complained about that and she said she will put a note to her colleagues for Monday (she wasn't working Monday).

Then Monday morning, another translator comes to my hospital room and says they need another deposit of 3500-4000 Euros to cover the "gastroscopy" though I will have a chance to talk to the specialist before going through with it.
…
The charges are pending so I can't dispute it yet. But as of now, some 14 hours after I left this hospital, I have over $8100 in charges, no credits, for supposedly a total bill of 5993 Euros.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187427-i42-k10384209-Expensive_health_care_lesson_for_American_in_Spain-Spain.html

[Anonymous]

In summary, in general, you are not covered under the national system as a visitor or illegal immigrant when you go to a country with universal healthcare coverage.

You can play roulette and hope someone either takes pity on you or can't be bothered to chase the bill, but that's not the same thing as being covered. It's also risky, and it's getting tighter as more people get involving medical tourism.

And people waive the small bills, not the big bills.

[Anonymous]

PS: generally, there are exceptions for emergency/accidental care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, this is a huge thing that will deeply affect my family. We currently have great health insurance and pretty much immediate access to any specialist we need. Deductibles are minimal.

Most of the Democratic candidates' plans will mean worse healthcare access for us, and I assume many folks. I find this really frustrating! How is this considered a winning issue. I'm not going to vote against my own self-interest.

We have been jerked around, and a Medicare for all replacing our current employee+family coverage would mess up a lot. We worked over years to get to this point; it is not always a given in DH’s industry (not mine) to have good health coverage, or any at all.

We finally got in this position, after 8 years of rocky insurance, and intend to stay here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, this is a huge thing that will deeply affect my family. We currently have great health insurance and pretty much immediate access to any specialist we need. Deductibles are minimal.

Most of the Democratic candidates' plans will mean worse healthcare access for us, and I assume many folks. I find this really frustrating! How is this considered a winning issue. I'm not going to vote against my own self-interest.

We have been jerked around, and a Medicare for all replacing our current employee+family coverage would mess up a lot. We worked over years to get to this point; it is not always a given in DH’s industry (not mine) to have good health coverage, or any at all.

We finally got in this position, after 8 years of rocky insurance, and intend to stay here.

So basically it’s all about you then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost every Westernized country says so. It’s (healthcare for its citizens) a sign of a civilized educated nation.

Yeah but the thing nobody wants to mention is how difficult is to immigrate to these countries compared to the US. I tried to see if I could work in Toronto after college - it was next to impossible, I didn’t have the right skills. I’m pretty educated and have a good job in the States.

This is true. It's also true that universal coverage generally applies to citizens, not non-citizens, and only emergency aid (with high bills) is given otherwise.

Have we been watching the same Democratic debates? Because that’s not what Warren and others have been proposing - decriminalizing the border, providing a pathway to citizenship, & then Medicare for All. I don’t believe you can have both.

Her specific reiterated quote has been "affordable health care for every American." I suppose you could argue about what is meant by "American." I suspect it is clarified in her platform, but I haven't looked in that detail because I am not going to be voting for her.

But generally, as I said (in reference to other countries with universal coverage), coverage is limited to citizens and legal permanent residents.

She raised her hand in reference to “would your plan cover undocumented immigrants?”, did she not?

I don't know, because I'm not obsessed with following her. As I said previously, I'm not voting for her. I'm certainly not interested in defending her position to you.

As I said, generally other countries who have universal healthcare coverage limit it to citizens and legal permanent residents. Make of that what you will -- I don't care all that much, other than to have claims of fact that matter to me to be accurate.

I don't think this is true. Sorry. I have friends and family members who travel a lot, who live both here and in other countries. Their interactions with countries with universal healthcare have been much more positive than friends of mine who have traveled to the US and had medical emergencies here. Overseas sometimes they had zero charges for hospital stays, sometimes they have very reasonable (aka dirt cheap) charges for hospital stays. And the US bills for people who had emergencies here were over 100k.

My experience has really been the opposite of what you are claiming, so where do your claims come from? I think it is just talking points but not based in fact.

Name the countries.

Sure. Italy (charged money but crazy low like under $50 for exam and cast) and Japan (hospital stay for over a week - zero charges). England also very, very cheap or no charge for urgent care situation. That was maybe 20 yrs ago and I was there for that one but don't remember the details.