China Retaliates Against the U.S. With Its Own Higher Tariffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:don't blame china for everything. think about what US did wrong.

https://www.wabe.org/president-trump-calls-president-carter-to-talk-china/


And on Saturday evening, Trump called Carter to talk about it. It was the first time they’d spoken, Carter said. He said Trump said he is particularly concerned about how China is “getting ahead of us.”

Carter agreed that’s true.

“And do you know why? I normalized diplomatic relations with China in 1979. Since 1979 do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody? None. And we have stayed at war,” he said.

The U.S., Carter said, has been at war for all but 16 years of its 242-year history. (China and Vietnam actually fought a brief border war in early 1979, weeks after normalization of U.S.-China relations.)

He called the United States “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” because of a tendency to try to force others to “adopt our American principles.”

Carter suggested that instead of war, China has been investing in its own infrastructure, mentioning that China has 18,000 miles of high-speed railroad.

“How many miles of high-speed railroad do we have in this country?”

Zero, the congregation answered.

“We have wasted I think $3 trillion,” Carter said of American military spending. “… It’s more than you can imagine. China has not wasted a single penny on war and that’s why they’re ahead of us. In almost every way.

“And I think the difference is if you take $3 trillion and put it in American infrastructure you’d probably have $2 trillion leftover. We’d have high-speed railroad. We’d have bridges that aren’t collapsing, we’d have roads that are maintained properly. Our education system would be as good as that of say South Korea or Hong Kong.

There is no way this crap is real.

Seriously, whomever posted it is either stupid, evil or a foreign agent.

China can't wait to see US start a war with Iran or somewhere else. Then China will have another 10-year golden opportunity to develop itself.

Psst, China is already developing itself
- and buying up American real estate and businesses.

Yes, we will probably end up in a pointless war in Iran that destroys our international reputation and fractures the Atlantic alliance. And yes, we do have a giant imbecilic bully as a President who is leading us to ruin and doesn't care about us.

But what's also true is that China has not developed yet. That local capital doesn't trust Chinese institutions and desperately wants hard currency. That even with the amazing recent growth there are still not enough jobs for everyone. That wages and margins are already exceedingly low. That the shadow banking system has run up a huge amount of debt and everyone is exposed to a cascading collapse of defaults and bankruptcies.

A full trade war hit would be devastating to China, and cashing in the treasuries would only make it worse. It would set things back a decade, assuming there was no political disruptions. It's economic nuclear war.

Of course, it would seriously hurt the US economy as well and set us back at least 5 years. Farm country would be devastated and consumer prices would increase substantially, hitting the poorest and most rural first. There'd be debt issues, foreclosures and bankruptcies and we'd have to cut interest rates again. There would definitely be a recession.

Despite all that we'd still seem the best worst option. Between capital flight and China selling treasuries our relative purchasing power would stay strong. We'd survive.

Which brings us back to the beginning. We have a spoiled brat as a President. He doesn't care about us, he really doesnt care about China, and he needs the distraction/show of strength. The worst part is that he is willing to sacrifice us unless he gets something he can claim as a win.

[Anonymous]

So.Much.EFFING.WINNING!

What a bunch of dolts you Trumpsters are. Simply amazing.

[Anonymous]

Xi with strong words today. He isn't going to back down.

I guess we are going to jump off multiple cliffs together - Iran, China etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:don't blame china for everything. think about what US did wrong.

https://www.wabe.org/president-trump-calls-president-carter-to-talk-china/


And on Saturday evening, Trump called Carter to talk about it. It was the first time they’d spoken, Carter said. He said Trump said he is particularly concerned about how China is “getting ahead of us.”

Carter agreed that’s true.

“And do you know why? I normalized diplomatic relations with China in 1979. Since 1979 do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody? None. And we have stayed at war,” he said.

The U.S., Carter said, has been at war for all but 16 years of its 242-year history. (China and Vietnam actually fought a brief border war in early 1979, weeks after normalization of U.S.-China relations.)

He called the United States “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” because of a tendency to try to force others to “adopt our American principles.”

Carter suggested that instead of war, China has been investing in its own infrastructure, mentioning that China has 18,000 miles of high-speed railroad.

“How many miles of high-speed railroad do we have in this country?”

Zero, the congregation answered.

“We have wasted I think $3 trillion,” Carter said of American military spending. “… It’s more than you can imagine. China has not wasted a single penny on war and that’s why they’re ahead of us. In almost every way.

“And I think the difference is if you take $3 trillion and put it in American infrastructure you’d probably have $2 trillion leftover. We’d have high-speed railroad. We’d have bridges that aren’t collapsing, we’d have roads that are maintained properly. Our education system would be as good as that of say South Korea or Hong Kong.

Carter got it right. We spend trillions on a military for no reason. Any of the big countries with big military(China, Russia, India) can defend us easily and they all have nukes in case we are the aggressor. We don't need a huge military boondoggle to fight the likes of Iraq,Syria etc. And even then we lose these wars, not because we don't have a great military, but because wars are eventually ended with diplomacy.

But the fraud party of trickle down economics lead by a liar-in-chief are only interested in tax cuts for the rich and unquestioned military expense. They don't care about our poor infrastructure, our "poorly educated"(whom the conman loves because they fall for his con without even trying), or healthcare.

China is the leader in highspeed rail, solar and wind power, infrastructure, even healthcare. No surprise there because they focus on growth NOT military expansion and tax cuts for the rich.

What are you smokin, my friend?

Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Xi with strong words today. He isn't going to back down.

I guess we are going to jump off multiple cliffs together - Iran, China etc.

Led by Trump off the cliff:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:don't blame china for everything. think about what US did wrong.

https://www.wabe.org/president-trump-calls-president-carter-to-talk-china/


And on Saturday evening, Trump called Carter to talk about it. It was the first time they’d spoken, Carter said. He said Trump said he is particularly concerned about how China is “getting ahead of us.”

Carter agreed that’s true.

“And do you know why? I normalized diplomatic relations with China in 1979. Since 1979 do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody? None. And we have stayed at war,” he said.

The U.S., Carter said, has been at war for all but 16 years of its 242-year history. (China and Vietnam actually fought a brief border war in early 1979, weeks after normalization of U.S.-China relations.)

He called the United States “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” because of a tendency to try to force others to “adopt our American principles.”

Carter suggested that instead of war, China has been investing in its own infrastructure, mentioning that China has 18,000 miles of high-speed railroad.

“How many miles of high-speed railroad do we have in this country?”

Zero, the congregation answered.

“We have wasted I think $3 trillion,” Carter said of American military spending. “… It’s more than you can imagine. China has not wasted a single penny on war and that’s why they’re ahead of us. In almost every way.

“And I think the difference is if you take $3 trillion and put it in American infrastructure you’d probably have $2 trillion leftover. We’d have high-speed railroad. We’d have bridges that aren’t collapsing, we’d have roads that are maintained properly. Our education system would be as good as that of say South Korea or Hong Kong.

There is no way this crap is real.

Seriously, whomever posted it is either stupid, evil or a foreign agent.

China can't wait to see US start a war with Iran or somewhere else. Then China will have another 10-year golden opportunity to develop itself.

Psst, China is already developing itself
- and buying up American real estate and businesses.

Yes, we will probably end up in a pointless war in Iran that destroys our international reputation and fractures the Atlantic alliance. And yes, we do have a giant imbecilic bully as a President who is leading us to ruin and doesn't care about us.

But what's also true is that China has not developed yet. That local capital doesn't trust Chinese institutions and desperately wants hard currency. That even with the amazing recent growth there are still not enough jobs for everyone. That wages and margins are already exceedingly low. That the shadow banking system has run up a huge amount of debt and everyone is exposed to a cascading collapse of defaults and bankruptcies.

A full trade war hit would be devastating to China, and cashing in the treasuries would only make it worse. It would set things back a decade, assuming there was no political disruptions. It's economic nuclear war.

Of course, it would seriously hurt the US economy as well and set us back at least 5 years. Farm country would be devastated and consumer prices would increase substantially, hitting the poorest and most rural first. There'd be debt issues, foreclosures and bankruptcies and we'd have to cut interest rates again. There would definitely be a recession.

Despite all that we'd still seem the best worst option. Between capital flight and China selling treasuries our relative purchasing power would stay strong. We'd survive.

Which brings us back to the beginning. We have a spoiled brat as a President. He doesn't care about us, he really doesnt care about China, and he needs the distraction/show of strength. The worst part is that he is willing to sacrifice us unless he gets something he can claim as a win.

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

[Anonymous]

Even former Goldman Sachs CEO Blankfein (no friend of Trump) thinks this will favor the US as China relies more on trade.

https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/stock-market-news-today-051519/h_d9831e69e3fd913882af8c3a5fdba64b

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

[Anonymous]

All Americans care about is buying cheap crap and shoving Chick Fil A down their throats. We are screwed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

They act this way because life is cheap in China. There are so many people competing for the same jobs, housing, schools, businesses, and yes - even pictures of a museum display. They behave poorly because they have been told by their government that their lives are worthless and therefore if they want something they need to take it for themselves whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This why riding the subway is so awful in Beijing: you'll have grown men push aside and trample elderly ladies for a seat on the train. There's no room for social graces in hyper-competitive environments where resources are constrained by a massive population.

In fact, I posit that in the near term the U.S. will evolve to culturally become more like China as government spending is cut and citizens must compete aggressively with each other for a shrinking piece of the pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree with your assertion that we are in a better position in the long run than China.

China is a civilization that was here thousands of years before us and will survive thousands of years after us.

There is more to China than just an economy.

The US on the other hand is it’s economy. It isn’t a civilizational people. A trade war with China would hurt the US much more in the long run as it would accelerate the timetable of a national breakup.

Oh my gawd. That's such a self aggrandizing cliche that the Chinese holds about themselves. Thousands of years? So what? China keeps looking longingly to its past but its past is far from being glorious. The traditional Chinese culture valued education and arts for the sake of education and arts, not real actual productivity. They looked down on people who conducted business, even though such people were the economic engine of the society. This is why the country stopped innovating, became insular, and the west rushed past it in terms of technological and economic advancement. In any effective plan of China's future development, looking to the glory days of its past is *not* a part of the equation. Xi may have read San Guo but he realizes that the lessons in those stories don't require the baggage of Chinese history for their deeper meaning. This is decidedly exactly the opposite of the situation in the US, which relies upon the principles of classical liberalism that it was founded on, and will do so for the foreseeable future, because the US has been going through a continuous and coherent evolution.

You talk about "civilization", as if China's current history has some rational attachment to its past. But remember that through communist rule and the cultural revolution, much of the good aspects of China's past has been washed away. The sense of honor and mutual that people used to ascribe to were washed away by decades of poverty and encouraged treachery against each other. There is *NO* moral foundation that gives context to China's current generation. Pursuit of money and wealth is everything. This is why China's current culture is so rife moral corruption, with people selling fakes of everything from hand bags to baby formula. Imagine the mindset of people selling fake baby formula - and we are not talking about some isolated incident, see also the recent vaccine scandal. The young men in China are unmoored in their expectation of reality, all wanting/expecting to attain high levels of wealth in very short order. And the women subscribe to the idea of that no exchange is beyond consideration as long as there is good money in it, to the point that many women in China are open to being a mistress to someone rich, a lifestyle that is celebrated openly. This is also why China is so numb to the authoritarian state that conducts mass surveillance on its citizens, with the population passively accepting their fate like sheep. This is because all of the good foundational beliefs that underpin a culture is completely lost in China.

This is also why Chinese tourists behave so poorly in other countries - because they lack culture, the very thing that they believe they have in abundance through their "thousands of years" of history.

They act this way because life is cheap in China. There are so many people competing for the same jobs, housing, schools, businesses, and yes - even pictures of a museum display. They behave poorly because they have been told by their government that their lives are worthless and therefore if they want something they need to take it for themselves whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This why riding the subway is so awful in Beijing: you'll have grown men push aside and trample elderly ladies for a seat on the train. There's no room for social graces in hyper-competitive environments where resources are constrained by a massive population.

In fact, I posit that in the near term the U.S. will evolve to culturally become more like China as government spending is cut and citizens must compete aggressively with each other for a shrinking piece of the pie.

*shrug* if your argument is that the Chinese government continues to contribute to the destruction of Chinese culture through their devaluation of the dignity and worth of human life, I agree.

Regarding the subway: China isn't the only one with crowds, Japanese in particular seem to be able to deal with the scarcity of space quite politely.

I don't think the US will evolve to be more like China. The US has never subscribed to the "fixed size pie" way of looking at things. It's not like the US was always rich. Even in the days of the wild west, there was value in personal freedom, private property rights, a sense of personal honor through honest hard work, mutual respect, rule of law, and celebration of entrepreneurship. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it served as a the foundation of a culture. No such foundation exists in China. Chinese people are subjects to an authoritarian state, can't own real private property, no sense of honor through hard work, no respect for others, and a corrupt system of laws. They do now value entrepreneurship, but only the kind approved by the central government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All Americans care about is buying cheap crap and shoving Chick Fil A down their throats. We are screwed!

Spicy Deluxe please. No just the sandwich. John. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Now if only we had a way to build strong, interdependent relationships with countries in the Asia Pacific region! An Agreement that while they might not give us everything we want, was written to clearly favor American interests and was on our terms. Such an agreement would cement the role of America as the preeminent country in the Asia Pacific region and would freeze out China making it harder for them leverage their economic relationships with other Asian countries against us when the inevitable geopolitical and economic conflicts unfold in the coming decades. If only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not PP. You may not be the real world because China is a leader in web 2.0 technologies, battery tech etc. China sells more electric cars in one month than what we do in 2 years. So wake up and work your ass off because just bleating " we are exceptional" and resting on other people's past accomplishments doesn't guarantee a future.

Leader in Web 2.0? LMAO. China has *ONE* dominant social network, WeChat, which essentially became popular because the Chinese government gave it the stamp of approval, leveraging it for mass content monitoring and censorship, and actively worked against the popularity of Google, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Chinese people don't even have access to Youtube. Anyone making the assertion that China is a leader in web 2.0 is someone who is pursuing a side gig as a comedian, you better have a punchline ready after setting that one up.

Yes, China sells many many electrical cars, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that they are the leader in battery tech. Battery technology is mostly about chemistry, and US/Japan/EU has a clear lead on battery chemistry, followed by South Korea, then Taiwan, and after that, China. Most of the electric cars sold by China are pretty crappy. They are popular not because they are good vehicles, but because all of the major cities severely limit the number of new license plates given out, and allow electric vehicles to jump the line. Also, electrical vehicles have far fewer driving-day restrictions in the cities. Granted the US gives tax credits to early buyers of electrical cars, and sometimes HOV benefits, but this is a few orders of magnitude less than the amount of support for electric vehicles that China as given. Again, China is not a leader in this because they are good at it, but because the Chinese government has mandated it so for their internal market.

Minimizing the competitor's accomplishments and gloating about our accomplishments IS DELUSIONAL. China is the largest market for pretty much anything. they sell 28 million cars and we sell 16 million. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. China is the leader in solar and wind energy. China and India are competing in the race for largest solar farm and they change the title between themselves every few months. We are not in the race at all. China has web platform and AI platforms that is already deployed. We are doing everything piecemeal and there is no co-ordinated vision.

Everyone starts by making crappy and they improvise and get better. If we don't make at all, then we don't get any better. It doesn't matter how china became the leader, the fact is that they are the leader in electric cars, high speed rail, solar and wind power. You can't wish away China's accomplishments, especially with oil companies stopping any progress in USA while they get subsidy.